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double blades in a canoe

Now where the heck is Brad? We've labored long and hard to give him insightful, on the topic, information and he seems to be off lolly-gagging somewheres. ;)

Rob
Here's how I've spent the past several days, playing with paddles of various kinds, both singularly angelic and demonically double.
Lily Dipping on the Rideau


A family gathering took place at a family member’s near the Rideau River, in Eastern Ontario Canada. The Rideau is an historic river system that has transitioned over the last 150 years from being of strategic importance during times of national duress, to that of a charming waterway prized by tourism and pleasure boaters.
http://www.rideau-info.com/canal/his...ist-canal.html
http://www.rideau-info.com/canal/paddling/index.html
At times we all went our separate ways, exploring the region on day trips, or catching up with each other around a glass of wine around the family kitchen table. There were times however, when some of us went paddling.
On the way to a put in I saw some “stereotypically Canadian” graffiti. Can you see it?


My canoe was the only open craft amongst all those kayaks, but we all got along just fine. I played with different paddles, experimented and learned. This section of the waterway is bucolic and rather serene. Farm fields, small towns and villages are never far away.



We put in next to an old swing bridge and headed downstream to the nearest lock. Rather than paying to go through, or carrying around it we chose to head back upstream instead.



My young bow paddler had never been in a canoe before. He found it a little difficult at times, but I reminded him to relax, and choose whichever side he preferred, and change sides however often he chose to, also to paddle only when he wanted to. Let’s slow down, and talk, and remember to breathe.


When we took out back at the bridge, the bridge keeper hand cranked it open, to make way for approaching watercraft of a bigger kind.



It had been a lovely lilydipping day.
 
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Rideau Encore

On this particular day paddle I had a different crew. My wife and new grandson were stowed up front and enjoyed the view. The other paddlers kept asking how the “Queen and young Prince” were enjoying their river promenade. The hired help in the stern wisely kept his mouth shut, besides, he wore a huge silly smile all day long. …MY grandson’s first paddle!!

There were more cottages scattered along this section of water, which would come in handy later on. There were still many silent, shallows filled with lilypads, bulrushes, birds, frogs and turtles.


A passing family out for an afternoon of fishing smiled and said hello. I saw their lines played out and trailing behind as they trolled, and asked “What do ya catch?” They grinned “Lotsa bass!”
The kayaks sped ahead while we lollygagged along, and while M hummed, our little man bubbled, gurgled and giggled. I listened to the birdsong and whispering willows.

When the giggles turned alarmingly into fussy sounds, I turned round and headed for home…feeding time! A fast and fearless double blade might’ve helped at that moment. Instead I steadily stroked back as trouble brewed amongst my crew. When the screaming started I employed the paddle waving distress signal to the distant kayakers. I put ashore on a cottager’s dock as mom cruised up for the little one’s feeding time, just in time.

Crisis averted, we all returned to humming, giggling, and daydreaming downstream as we paddled the Rideau…

 
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Yur a lucky dawg! Told my son to get busy and make me a grandchild and he told me that was the worst advice a dad had ever given a son (he's only been dating his latest girlfriend for a few months, but she's nice, he should marry her and make babies).
 
Thanks friends for letting me blab. Yer right mem, I am a lucky dawg, or is that dat? But just so you know things have a way of working even, our drive home last night through a torrential rain in holiday traffic through GTA (Greater Toronto Area) was an adventure and a half. We were one of the first 30 cars to arrive at a flooded section of highway 407...water halfway up car doors. It was weird driving single file the wrong way up past a sea of traffic (sorry for the pun). When we finally got off the highway, we found a local place to eat. It was burger night, but naturally we ordered steak instead. It took hour. I think maybe they hadn't butchered Mr moo moo yet, or had used up all the good stuff for burgers. Every time I pondered getting angry and storming out I looked out at the real storm going on outside. Oh, and I was soaked from the walk in from the parking lot...wearing my bathing suit. I'd worn it after trying to get one last day paddle in before the long drive home. But the steak was good, eventually. And I dried out, eventually. And we made it home, sweet, home. Eventually.
Got up this morning to have a good cup of coffee, aaahhh, but we're out of milk/cream. M says "We have buttermilk." I'm looking out to consider going out for a quart of milk...and it's raining.
No problem, I still have my bathing suit on.
 
What I learned...Marten makes a very good point, when he says a double blade can be used well from any canoe position. I could've used it in the stern when we needed/wanted some speed. Also, my young bow paddler might've found it easier (or not) and gotten more paddling enjoyment. The yak blades I tried were a touch short sitting at my solo thwart, but a longer one would rectify that. I was surprised to discover that I prefer sitting in the stern vs solo thwart. As much as I love leaning my canoe (with a canoe paddle), I prefer the stable feel and relatively narrow seat station in back. I also much prefer sitting. I can move my legs and feet to different positions as I choose. Sturgeon, you mention how it helps in headwind and in bracing. I didn't try that, as the weather spoiled us this past weekend, but I can understand a double blade's advantage. I'd feel better being out there in sketchy conditions with a little more confidence and practise. Hang in there with posting friend, I keep getting tagged with "INVALID SERVER" and just tap the blue OK key and swear. I'm convinced the swear words do the trick. Pm me if you need to learn more of them.
I'm not sure how the topic wandered off to craft beer selection, but I like wandering that way. This weekend we had a large and varied selection. My older son isn't fussy about beer, and prefers sipping a whiskey. Me too sometimes. My younger son is fussy about beer choices, and always brings crafty types of suds. I like craft beers. (J'aime la Maudite.) My niece said "Going downstairs to the bar for a beer run. Uncle Brad?" I said yes please and thank you. Which kind? "Surprise me" I said amicably. Yes she surprised me, and no it wasn't an amicable one. It tasted like horse pee, but the label said "Shandy-lemonade & lager." YUCK! Who the heck does that to beer!?
Conclusions...I'll never earn style points, and despite much of canoeing being about the pragmatic - going from a to b, so much of the pleasure is about the feel of it all. The single blade (otter tail type) felt really good all the time, but the double blade felt really capable of taking me places faster-easier. I think I'll move towards using the double as an option when I'll have need for speed.
 
For those who like the idea of a relatively heavy pack canoe.. Old Town has come out with Next.. The best thing will probably be the price. Yes its a double blade boat.. The seat looks like torture but who knows?
http://www.paddlenext.com/
 
For those who like the idea of a relatively heavy pack canoe.. Old Town has come out with Next.. The best thing will probably be the price. Yes its a double blade boat.. The seat looks like torture but who knows?
[URL="http://www.paddlenext.com/[/url][/QUOTE"]http://www.paddlenext.com/[/QUOTE[/URL]]

50 LBS for a 13 foot boat? The best thing better be the price.

I agree that the seat looks uncomfortable. I envision the rigid backrest frame digging into my shoulders with every stroke.
 
I am officially a hater of Bud Light. We picked up some 77 empties on the shores and water edges of the Saco River today and the double blade was useful in getting the cans out of tree branches in the water. One can was not Bud Light. There were 76.. YES 76 Bud Light cans. 74 were empties. Two were unopened. We also found a full can of Red Bull ( wtf is that stuff?) and a half full bottle of Jagermeister in the water. Yes half full of whatever Jagermeister is. Being possibly spit water we threw the contents in the woods.

never ever will Bud Light pass my lips from now on. It's association with river junk is too intense.
 
76 cans of Bud in the Saco, 76 cans of Buuud, if one of those drinks, should happen sink,
75 cans of Bud on the Saco
....
Seriously though, that makes me mad. I come across junk and refuse in parks and places, and start burning a slow fuse. Surprisingly, we didn't find any in the waters we were paddling last weekend. That's not to say it doesn't happen though. What concerned me was wake. There were 10 kph - No Wake Zones in places, and a few motor boaters were compliant and courteous. Two or three were jerks. One of them had been working on his engine earlier as we passed. He must've been real popular with the neighbours, as he revved his outboard continuously for the hour it took us to approach, pass, and disappear from sight and sound. On our way back though, he was taking it for a spin. A vigorous spin, racing up and down the river channel as fast as the coughing and choking old engine could struggle. He kept washing us with waves as we tried to weave past. The kayaks handled the wakes just fine. I had no trouble in my canoe, but because I had some precious company on board, was getting angry. A slow fuse smouldering. And thinking bad thoughts. I smiled and waved at him as he roared -coughed-roared by. He gave me a smarmy -meh- look. Slow fuse picking up speed now. Amazingly, our little man must've been rocked to sleep by all that wave action, because when we reached the take-out, he was snoring.
 
If there were two cans unopened, sounds like a motor boat tipped or sunk. I would have sucked back the full ones and taken the empties back for money….a profitable paddle! Jagermeister and red bull make a hair raising shot called "jagerbomb", no word of a lie, I have had them. Jagerbombs are enough to boil your innards, and if you found a half a bottle of jager, it adds more credibility to the boat sinking story.

Never let negative associations influence your choice of food or drink. The poor little bud light cans were not responsible for their predicament, they were victims, horribly traumatized victims. You should have given the two full ones escape from the pain of witnessing the demise of their companions by inflicting a similar fate on them, except for the littering part.
 
No motorboats on the river. Lots of livery canoes. The water in places is three inches deep. Its snag filled. Jagerbomb..ick ich.. I will go back to my nice Ubu Ale. The problem is the clients. The liveries run once a week trash cleanups but admit they cannot keep pace with their slovenly clientele. Perhaps if they upped the daily rate for canoe rental. Its currently $19 a boat. Camping is free.

Interesting. The full can of Jager was next to the full can of Red Bull right by waters edge. But fortunately I saw no throwup nearby.
 
The liveries seem part of this problem. They might be unwilling and unhappy to be, but their confession of being unable to keep up with the yahoos suggests they're not trying hard enough. Is it possible to prevent transport of alcohol in rented craft? I can't see why they couldn't include and enforce a new company policy rule. It would likely hurt their bottom line, but it might rid the Saco of two different types of trash. I'm no party pooper, but some common sense and courtesy can go a long way. We shouldn't have to make rules against stupid.
 
Lips that touch Bud lite will never touch mine. Jagerbomb? I am glad we didnt discover that when I was in Germany, I might not have made it out alive.

Brad, that is some seriously awesome canoeing you did there. I feel all relaxed just looking at it.
 
Sorry for the litter rant earlier. That came shortly after I'd followed a carload of people flicking cigarette butts and whatever out of their car windows.
Anyway, Bud Lite. I'd like to be a beer/food snob if I could but my blue collar background gets in the way. (Notice I'm blaming my uneducated taste on my hardworking pioneer forefathers, not me) My favourite brew nowadays is this: http://www.wellingtonbrewery.ca/inde...ers&Beer=5
I'm "trying a wellie on" most weekends. I'm not sure if it's blue collar, white collar, craft beer, crap beer or whatever. I love dark ales and stouty types. As much as I celebrate good food, good wine, and good beer, I whoop for joy when my wife buys me treats...KD and sardines. One day I'm requesting "Dijon, sil vous plait", and the next I'm slapping yellow mustard on a ballpark dog. Hot diggity dog! My uppity days almost started years ago, when I was working a summer construction job. Gawd! it was a hot day! Blistering heat! Near the end of the afternoon, the customer came out to offer us a beer. "YES! THANK YOU!" After reappearing from his house he dejectedly admitted they weren't cold "Sorry." "NO PROBLEM!" I took one look and saw they were Molson Stock Ale. Yuck. An old man's beer. A warm old man's beer. The first bottle must've evaporated on my lips, cause when the guy asked "Would ya like another?" I said "Yes please." I tasted the second, and it was good. Warm ale on a hot steaming day. Gawd! it was good. Okay, maybe I would never drink it again, but I'll be careful of dissing another man's beer.
Moral of the long winded story is, when in Rome - or Geraldton - do as the locals do. Everything'll be fine.
Thanks Iskweo, it was wonderful. Our family is flowing like waters. When the waters run high and we come together, we try to make the most of the crazy swirling fun. There are some ebbing tides coming, some family members are moving and tears will flow, but till then, we'll laugh, party, and paddle together.
 
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I always rent when i take a long trip. One time, i asked for a single and a double. After singling for 5 mins out onto the lake, i switched to the double and havent touched the single since.
 
The other day I tried a double blade in the canoe for the first time. I was at the lake letting someone try my V8 surfski and while they were paddling that I was paddling my Barracuda canoe. I tried a double blade for about 100 yards as we were coming back to shore and while it wasn't bad it certainly wasn't anything I'd want to do for an extended period of time. Too wet, too heavy, and feels like too much work for no real gain in speed. It was nice not having to do any correction strokes but the conditions were perfect. Had there been wind corrections would have been needed and I hate having to make corrections with a double blade, especially multiple strokes/side.

As a side note I took the V8 out with both a single blade and wing paddle and there was no difference in maximum speed, 7.4mph for both of them. I do, however, know from past experience that when I was in better shape the wing paddle had a slight edge over the single blade both sprinting and cruising (racing pace) but it was also more work and wore harder on the body. I also know that when I was in better shape a good paddler with a single blade in a marathon C1 could kick my butt even when I was in a surf ski using a wing blade.

Alan
 
A 100% double blade paddler is joining in the conversation. Because of an old work injury I could never enjoy using a single blade and did not paddle much. I tried a double blade and have never looked back. I use a 260 Werner Camano that is all carbon and less than two pounds for good tripping waters. If I am bushwhacking up unknown streams I go back to the 275 Carlisle beast that weighs over four pounds. The intended trip dictates which one stays home. I carry a Carlisle single blade but it never gets used other than as a walking stick while portaging a canoe and pack. Unless it is really windy my canoe stays dry by keeping a low angle and having the blades unfeathered. This way the blades act as drip points and the water runs off the edge of the blade and not down the shaft. It disappoints me that most shops do not carry a double blade over 240cm. Fortunately Werner and others are seeing the demand for longer paddles and allow you to special order them.

I often times used my double in the rear of a tandem and now I even use it from the front. In the rear it is really useful when the paddler up front is really young or just not an experienced paddler. In the front it allows me to power ahead. It seems crazy but much appreciated by the stern paddler. It requires a little adjustment to get the most out of it but well worth

A 95% double blade paddler belatedly joins the conversation.

For all intents and purposes I may be Marten’s twin; an old injury to my wrist precludes using a single with any kind of correction other than the gooniest of goon strokes, even sit & switch hurts after a short session.

Back when I paddled tandem with a variety of partners I found the same as Marten - a double blade in the hands of even an unskilled bow paddler can provide good propulsion and less need for stern correction, especially into the wind, and the bow station doesn’t need a giant-length double blade.

I first picked up a canoeing double blade in 1988 to use in a pack canoe after 20 years of using only a single blade tandem or solo (in big, clunky canoes). After injuring my wrist I found I could wield the double-blade all day without pain (at the time paddling with big, clunky double blades in those same big, clunky canoes).

The canoes have gotten better and so have the paddles. My go-to double blade today is the same as Marten’s – a custom 260 Werner Camano in carbon, although in the wider soloized-tandems (Penobscot, Explorer) I use a carbon 280. The Camano, in some composite and appropriate length, seems to be a common stick of choice for schmegging*.
*A term coined by my single blade purist friends for double blading a canoe. They refuse to call it paddling.

Like Marten, I use a beater double blade on shallow rocky waters (aluminum Mohawk or laminated wood), and I always carry a single blade, The 5% single blade use is largely confined to stuff so densely woody and narrow that there isn’t room to swing a double, pushing across rocky shallows or landing on cobble bars, and occasionally as a rudder when I have a sail up.

Over the years I have amassed a collection of long double blades, many of them wood, including some oddities (Nashwaak solid cherry double, old Kleppers, etc) and the first thing I notice when I take one of those instead of a carbon stick is “Oh my god, this thing weighs a ton”.

Paddle weight is even more important with a double, since you are lifting one end of it out of the water with each stroke. And not just overall weight; I had a Shaw and Tenney Herreshoff double that I liked for a variety of reasons, but the swing weight was all wrong for me (surprisingly it was too light in the blades/too heavy in the shaft, it just didn’t feel balanced).

Back in 2004 I reviewed the (then) few canoeing double blades available and borrowed a triple beam balance on which to accurately weigh them. Some of the weights for the comparable length doubles:

Mohawk (aluminum) 277cm – 3 lbs, 4.2 oz
Shaw & Tenney Herreshoff (spruce) 280cm– 3lbs 7oz
Bending Branches Tailwind (laminated wood) 280cm– 3 lbs, 8 oz
Bending Branches Day Breeze (carbon) 280 – 2 lbs, 6.6oz

Next time I have a triple beam balance available I’ll weight the carbon 260cm Camano. It is at least a few ounces lighter than the 280 carbon BB and a few extra ounces of weight adds up over a day of lifting one end of the paddle out of the water, even with a low angle touring stroke.

There are more composite canoe-length doubles made today than 10 years ago, and so more options to swinging a heavier aluminum or wood paddle.

Schmegging.
 
I've only a couple short paddle sessions with a newly acquired FoxWorx K3. Its a monster at 290 cm, weighs in at 2 lbs-12 oz with drip rings. Carbon/glass foam core blades on a basswood shaft. Like the paddle so far but don't care for the aluminum ferrule. I'll probably change that out this winter to a carbon fiber version.

Those long carbon Camanos sound nice - may have to give one a try.
 
What are you guys pulling? A battleship? I'm using three 230's except for my Aleut paddle of Sitka spruce. Of course my canoes are narrow. No drippage drip rings and well designed blades help. I've been using an AT SL tour paddle this trip
 
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