NWC Cruiser build

[Jim Dodd]

You are right to sand before popping the hull off the forms. I'd let it cure at least a week, before sanding.. For safety, and the harder the epoxy cures the better it will sand.
My plan for a second copy of CF Nokomis, is to varnish CF Nokomis, then apply a paste wax, hair spray, and then PVA.

I've been very happy with RAKA's products.

RAKA advises to varnish their UV-inhibited resin. That's what I plan to do.

Jim

 

[Cruiser]

I follow pretty much the same process as Alan suggests, definitely ROS, but I use 120 grit, but concur that if the hull finish is rough, you will likely have to drop grit to get it level.

If I cut through then I just use a final thin coat of epoxy (roller with foam brush tip off), which usually comes out like glass, which is then lightly sanded (ROS) using 150 (this coat is so smooth I don't need anything coarser than this) to take all of the shine off ..... I find it goes very quick even at 150 and seems to make the first varnish coat go on smoother and easier .

Whether you chose to use a thin recoat of epoxy or not, after cutting into the FG, is a bit of a crap shoot .... if it's not too deep or the glass doesn't fray, then varnish will make it disappear, however, if that's not the case, the glass will show after the varnish dries. Unfortunately, when you have sanded too far into the glass is a judgement call, our terms of "deep" "light" are all up for debate, the rule I use is that if I can clearly see the glass weave, I have gone too far and I will use an extra thin coat to reseal.

After the amount of work invested at that point I usually err on the side of caution and do the recoat if I have any doubts about abraded areas. The key is to use a "thin" coat, you aren't trying to fill anything at this point, just reseal the hull. The up side of this is that the new coat will be almost glass like, which can be a real ego booster.



Brian

 

[bernjo]

Hi Sven,

I'm almost to this point with my build and plan to glass next weekend. Just curious if you wetted out both layers (partial and full) of the glass at the same time? Did this cause the resin starvation on the bottom that you mentioned?

Thanks,
Bernard

 

[stripperguy]

Bernard,
I just yesterday helped wet out a Wee Lassie derivative.
One and a half layers of 4 oz over a seal coated white cedar hull.
He never wetted out a hull before, I've got almost 40 years experience.

From draping the cloth to finished stem strips, 2 hours. 1 hour to do the actual wet out.
No problem whatever to do both layers at once.

 

[Sven]

Bernard,
I am definitely not experienced with fiberglass. One thing I did notice was that the area where it was doubled up took longer to saturate with resin. On the note of the starvation, I believe my problem stemmed from the resin in my roller starting to kick over. Which made it not want to soak into the cloth. At that point I ditched that tray and roller and mixed a new batch. I am certain that the root of the problem was the resin. I would recommend not attempting the wet out by yourself. From the perspective of time, i would do the double layer all at once again. When I said some very small areas, I meant, very very small. Spots that probably equate to the area of about a penny, but are not round.
Good luck with your glass, I'm sure you will do fine.
Stay calm and don't forget to breathe!
On another note I am glad I seal coated my hull first....

 

[Sven]

No Title

Here is a spot that didn't quite take up the resin in the outer layer which is the partial.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Here is a spot that didn't quite take up the resin in the outer layer which is the partial.

Possibly a contaminate. Something that didn't allow the epoxy to absorb anyway.

People worry about the weave showing through the varnish. I add extra layers on the stems, and feather these out. They look bad, but one you varnish they disappear !
I also feather my extra bottom layer. 90% of the time, when I try and show that edge to people, I can't find it.

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

Bernard,
I just yesterday helped wet out a Wee Lassie derivative.
One and a half layers of 4 oz over a seal coated white cedar hull.
He never wetted out a hull before, I've got almost 40 years experience.

From draping the cloth to finished stem strips, 2 hours. 1 hour to do the actual wet out.
No problem whatever to do both layers at once.

4 oz wets out a lot easier. 6oz, takes more time. My problem with this, is air entrapment. Especially when it's cold. I've had troubles, and unless doing it when the shop is hot, I'll do one layer, at a time, with 6 oz.

Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

I've had the same small "dry" spots and like you it was usually caused by resin that was starting to kick and I tried to use it just a little longer than I should have.

Alan

 

[Sven]

Jim,
I agree with your statement about the stems looking not so nice right now. I think mine look terrible at the moment, but I have faith. I guess I hadn't thought about contaminates, but it seems like it happened right where I had to ditch my first roller.

 

[Jim Dodd]

It seems like a small spot. I would think if it was resin, that was kicking, it would be bigger. It's location might be a better indicator.

Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

It seems like a small spot. I would think if it was resin, that was kicking, it would be bigger. It's location might be a better indicator.

Jim

I believe a larger area is affected than the obvious 'spot'. I think I see visible weave in the area surrounding it as well but not as noticeable.

Alan

 

[Sven]

Alan,
You are correct it affected a much larger area. That spot was about the worst of it.
Another question to those in the know :
Should the fabric be completely invisible or can you normally see some ghosting of the weave?

I do have a very bright, high power light right above the center and it seems that when that light isn't on I can't see what I consider to be this ghosting of the fabric...its apparent on the entire bottom, as for the sides, I'm not sure since I am working in pretty tight quarters and almost all the light is directly above.

 

[latremorej]

I'm not too sure about your ghosting problem but on the epoxy kicking while your wetting out the cloth..

A tip that helped me a lot, I didn't have any help on the three boats I glassed, I judged the "kick time" based on the epoxy information sheet and temp and set the count down timer on my watch. When it went off, I put down that pot and started mixing a new batch. If there isn't accurate or specific information on the hardener you're using, time a small batch first. Keep in mind the temperature and even write it down so you know for sure. This applied more for ditching the roller than the batch for me. I was working alone and never mixed up more than 10 Oz at a time.

Jason

 

[Jim Dodd]

Alan,

Should the fabric be completely invisible or can you normally see some ghosting of the weave?

I've always been able to see some ghosting, in mine, and yes lighting makes it more visible. There can be several causes. Compatibility of resin and cloth. S- glass is more visible than E-glass.
Here's a pic of E-glass, and extra layer of S-glass, on the right.

Bob Brown had a small canoe, that showed this ghosting, quite badly. He blamed it on stress. If you pull on the cloth, or continually squeegee, while the resin is setting, I can see this being more of a problem. Often times, you can see vertical ghosting in hulls, and this I believe is the cause.
Cloth doesn't turn glass clear, there will always be something visible.

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

I was wondering if you applied any bias strips on your stems ?

Jim

 

[Sven]

No Title

Jim,

Thanks for those pictures and your input! I was beginning to worry that I really screwed up the glass.
I did not use bias cut strips on the stems. I used the scraps from the full layer of 6 oz. my partial was 4 oz on the outside per your recommendation. What I did with the stem strips is hard to explain. I cut angles on the end which wraps around the bottom , left the other end square, and pressed them onto the point of the stem. Then I kinda pushed the sides in around the straight portion of the stem and " stretched " the part that wrapped under the bottom.
This works pretty well, might be losing some strength I guess. But here is what the finished product looks like.
I scraped the edge a bit to make it more visible.

 

[Sven]

I'm not too sure about your ghosting problem but on the epoxy kicking while your wetting out the cloth..

A tip that helped me a lot, I didn't have any help on the three boats I glassed, I judged the "kick time" based on the epoxy information sheet and temp and set the count down timer on my watch. When it went off, I put down that pot and started mixing a new batch. If there isn't accurate or specific information on the hardener you're using, time a small batch first. Keep in mind the temperature and even write it down so you know for sure. This applied more for ditching the roller than the batch for me. I was working alone and never mixed up more than 10 Oz at a time.

Jason

That's a good idea to set a timer, though as expensive as this west system epoxy is I hate to waste any, and I am a cheapskate.....

 

[wingnut]

I agree your going to see a little bit of the fiberglass show through but not enough to worry about. I think you'll be amazed that the extra strip on the stems will sand out smooth and be almost unnoticable except for a little more of the weave ghosting.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Jim,

Thanks for those pictures and your input! I was beginning to worry that I really screwed up the glass.
I did not use bias cut strips on the stems. I used the scraps from the full layer of 6 oz. my partial was 4 oz on the outside per your recommendation. What I did with the stem strips is hard to explain. I cut angles on the end which wraps around the bottom , left the other end square, and pressed them onto the point of the stem. Then I kinda pushed the sides in around the straight portion of the stem and " stretched " the part that wrapped under the bottom.
This works pretty well, might be losing some strength I guess. But here is what the finished product looks like.
I scraped the edge a bit to make it more visible.

Looks great. Looks like the weave is covered very well.
A scraper of just about anything, can be used instead of sanding, Those edges. Especially while the resin is in a green stage. The longer you wait, the hard it is to scrape. I often use a pocket knife. I've waited weeks, and still scraped it.

Again looks good !

Jim