I greatly appreciate all of the input, and respect all opinions. I have decided to go with a seal coat. I feel like some good points were made to do it. What's a little more resin in the grand scheme of things. Another bonus would be getting a sneak peak at what the finished wood tone will look like. I will be doing 6oz e glass full and a partial on outside. Haven't decided what to do on the inside yet. It may be a while before I pull it off the forms as I will be using it as a plug for a Kevlar copy. Now off to express composites to get my 60" wide fiberglass. I know their prices are higher than some but I didn't plan ahead and order a week ago, and I am determined to glass the outside this weekend.
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NWC Cruiser build
- Thread starter Sven
- Start date
20 yards of e glass for 165$. Doesn't seem terrible. More than I would have paid if I ordered off the net, but I guess you pay for convenience. I overheard a couple employees talking about Ted Bell coming in later today to pick up an order. Would have been neat to meet a legend like that, but timing is everything....
I will be putting a seal coat on this evening, so I will post some pictures after that.
Another question for all of you builders. Glass stems before or after the main layers on the outside?
I will be putting a seal coat on this evening, so I will post some pictures after that.
Another question for all of you builders. Glass stems before or after the main layers on the outside?
I like to order from Express Composites when I can. Nice company to deal with and friendly and helpful on the phone. They have good prices on Kevlar. I'd get even more from them if I was close enough to drive to the store.
I've done stem reinforcements both ways. On lighter duty hulls I'll slip a couple layers under the main one. You may or may not notice the slight bulge at the edge from the thicker layers. You could even do them at the same time as the seal coat and then feather the edges before putting the main layer over top.
If you put the extra layers on the outside it's easier to sand it all smooth later without having to cut through the main cloth.
Anymore I'm using S-glass and dynel for my stem wear layers so they need to go on top of the main layer.
EDIT to add that on the inside I always do the stems first. It's much easier to cut, fold, place, and wet out just the stems when you're only dealing with 15" or so of cloth rather than trying to get it just right while the rest of the resin is starting to kick. Next day I'll do the full inner layer and just lap the seams by a few inches. Even without sanding it barely shows since it's kind of tucked out of the way close to the stems.
Alan
I've done stem reinforcements both ways. On lighter duty hulls I'll slip a couple layers under the main one. You may or may not notice the slight bulge at the edge from the thicker layers. You could even do them at the same time as the seal coat and then feather the edges before putting the main layer over top.
If you put the extra layers on the outside it's easier to sand it all smooth later without having to cut through the main cloth.
Anymore I'm using S-glass and dynel for my stem wear layers so they need to go on top of the main layer.
EDIT to add that on the inside I always do the stems first. It's much easier to cut, fold, place, and wet out just the stems when you're only dealing with 15" or so of cloth rather than trying to get it just right while the rest of the resin is starting to kick. Next day I'll do the full inner layer and just lap the seams by a few inches. Even without sanding it barely shows since it's kind of tucked out of the way close to the stems.
Alan
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I'm sure you can meet Ted in April, at Mid West Mtn's Spring Event.
But I'm sure he'll be busy !
Here in Iowa, Nobody can get things to me as fast as Express ! Great Company !
Good Decision with the seal coat !
I've always put my extra layers on top of the main layer. They feather out easily, without cutting into the main layer.
Friday Night seal coating! When I was working, that was my schedule too. Line everything up, take a deep breath, and have fun !
Jim
You're probably doing that seal coat even now...
Hope you take the time for photos! I'm dying to see your hull all bright and shiny.
Hope you take the time for photos! I'm dying to see your hull all bright and shiny.
Yep, this is how I'm doing the inside on my next build Alan. Thanks for the reminder.
If you put dynel on the stems you may as well use some type of filler to fill the weave and feather the edges. I tried with just epoxy and it took too much sanding and too many coats of epoxy. I finally resorted to mixing a batch with a filler and it solved the problem. Rookie mistake!
Mark
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I do the same. Get it the consistency of peanut butter and apply it with a plastic squeegee. This will fill the weave with a couple coats and also makes a smooth transition to the hull.
Of course the biggest "easy button" for putting down dynel is using peel ply. The weave will be filled with the wetout coat (though I always get a few air pockets) and the transition won't be bad either.
Alan
Wow, looks great. I prefer to use a seal coat, I squeege it on when I do it. That way there is no extra epoxy, when I'm done the wood has a flat finish and there isn't enough build to hold a bubble. Not a big deal, there is just a little more epoxy on the surface. Now, take a razor blade and scrape those little blemishes and put some fiberglass on it.
Great build.
Great build.
Yup Outgassing.
I should have stated how to deal with them, lowering the temp, and a foam brush. Not a big proplem with the seal coat, but watch for them during wet out ! I use a hair dryer to warm those bubbles up, then brush. Warming expands the air making a bigger bubble, remove heat and brush. Keep an eye on them.
Looks great !
Jim
I should have stated how to deal with them, lowering the temp, and a foam brush. Not a big proplem with the seal coat, but watch for them during wet out ! I use a hair dryer to warm those bubbles up, then brush. Warming expands the air making a bigger bubble, remove heat and brush. Keep an eye on them.
Looks great !
Jim
Yeah, that color and pattern turned out really well, better than I thought it would. Well done!
As long as it's warm enough when you glass those outgassing bubbles aren't a big deal. They'll travel through the laminate and then pop on the surface, like yours did. But on more than one occasion when the outside weather has been very cold I've tried 'glassing a hull with shop temps around 60. The colder temps give you a little more working time but the thick epoxy doesn't always let those gas bubbles escape and they get trapped in the laminate.
So now I try to keep the shop up to at least 70 while 'glassing. Heating up the shop before 'glassing and then letting the temperature fall once you start 'glassing seems to be the best way to keep the bubbles to a minimum. If the shop heats up after 'glassing more bubbles will appear.
Alan
So now I try to keep the shop up to at least 70 while 'glassing. Heating up the shop before 'glassing and then letting the temperature fall once you start 'glassing seems to be the best way to keep the bubbles to a minimum. If the shop heats up after 'glassing more bubbles will appear.
Alan
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One more fill coat to go, and then it's time to hurry up and wait! I didn't have any problems with air bubbles. Kept the temp at 70 and everything worked well, except when about halfway through the wet out the resin in my roller started to kick. Not a big deal. Ended up with a couple very small spots of resin starved cloth in the partial layer on the outside. Very small....and on the bottom. Not going to bother with them. It was very nice to have the help of my friend to mix and fire up a second roller towards the end. He said he didn't feel like he helped much, but I told him it made a world of difference!
A couple questions:
What's the best way to sand the epoxy, RO sander or by hand with some sort of long fairing board? Or a combination of both.
What's the best way to trim the excess glass at the sheer?
One more fill coat to go, and then it's time to hurry up and wait! I didn't have any problems with air bubbles. Kept the temp at 70 and everything worked well, except when about halfway through the wet out the resin in my roller started to kick. Not a big deal. Ended up with a couple very small spots of resin starved cloth in the partial layer on the outside. Very small....and on the bottom. Not going to bother with them. It was very nice to have the help of my friend to mix and fire up a second roller towards the end. He said he didn't feel like he helped much, but I told him it made a world of difference!
A couple questions:
What's the best way to sand the epoxy, RO sander or by hand with some sort of long fairing board? Or a combination of both.
What's the best way to trim the excess glass at the sheer?
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ROS is the only way to go in my opinion. I usually start with 100 grit. If the epoxy is sanding harder than usual or if the finish is rougher than usual I'll drop down to 80. I usually cut into the glass in a few places while flattening the epoxy so I'll give it one more thin coat of epoxy before a final sanding of 120 before varnish.
With a razor blade while the epoxy is still green. I usually do it the morning after I glass when the resin is no longer tacky but still flexible. Like a hot knife through butter. Even if it's gotten brittle I'd still use the razor blade knife, it just won't be as easy or smooth.
Boat looks great.
Alan
I'll agree with everything above.
Except coming back with a thin coat, after sanding.
If you have properly filled the weave, there is no need for more. It would require extra material, but more important. Extra time, for no real benefit.
If you lightly sand into the weave, the varnish will make it disappear.
Another $2 worth.
Jim
Except coming back with a thin coat, after sanding.
If you have properly filled the weave, there is no need for more. It would require extra material, but more important. Extra time, for no real benefit.
If you lightly sand into the weave, the varnish will make it disappear.
Another $2 worth.
Jim
And now for the best part of the build, popping the hull off the forms. At least that was the best part for me. It didn't seem like a canoe until it was sitting there right side up. Looking good!
Mark
Mark
Thanks for the input guys. I certainly value all of your opinions. I will trim the rest of the sheer later tonight. It cut very easily even with some epoxy that had hardened as it's still pretty green. I probably will be waiting a while before pulling the hull from the forms. I want to sand first for sure. Also I am not certain if I will even pull it until I have laid up the Kevlar hull I will be making.
So another question for you guys:
I used west epoxy with UV inhibitors, should I still varnish?
I know I can wait a while and do it later. Just wondering what you guys think.
I already have the Kevlar for the next build, so I will probably start that as soon as I have the hull sanded. I still have some about a gallon and a half of epoxy leftover but I am thinking I will order from raka this time as it's much more economical. How does everyone that uses/used like their products?
So another question for you guys:
I used west epoxy with UV inhibitors, should I still varnish?
I know I can wait a while and do it later. Just wondering what you guys think.
I already have the Kevlar for the next build, so I will probably start that as soon as I have the hull sanded. I still have some about a gallon and a half of epoxy leftover but I am thinking I will order from raka this time as it's much more economical. How does everyone that uses/used like their products?
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