Barracuda Build

[Alan Gage]

Kidding aside, looks like you'll be in the water with it in just a few days?

It's a real internal struggle. Part of me just wants to get it on the water and see how it paddles. I think I could be ready for that by the weekend. But the other part of my brain knows that if I take it out of the shop before final sanding and varnishing the chances of me getting it back in the shop and getting those done in any sort of timely manner is likely out the window. So I'm going to try and force myself to wait until it's donedone before hitting the water. But I'm hoping that by the end of the weekend everything will be varnished.

Last night I ordered some fiberglass tape. I think I'd like to wrap the gunwales for a little extra protection seeing as how they're pretty soft wood.

Alan

 

[Momentum]

Alan, your pictures look like the finish is still glossy. Have you sanded the epoxy yet? Or are you waiting to sand and varnish all in one fail swoop?

If you can stand it, I would certainly try to wait to get it into the water until everything is done. I'm like you...if i got it into the water before finishing, I'm not sure I'd get it back to the shop to varnish.

 

[Alan Gage]

Correct, I haven't sanded it down yet. Next day the outside epoxy was hard enough to flip the boat over but not hard enough to sand and I didn't want to wait for it before working on the inside. So I'll do it just before varnishing.

Went home for lunch today and epoxied the other gunwale in place. Things went a little different when I started with a clamp every 6 inches.....it took 2 more than the other side! No small task to find them either!!!

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Your build has inspired me to write about my own.

That's great! I normally don't take the time to document my projects. Usually not even pictures except for the final product. I get too wrapped up in it and forget to take the time to take pictures and share. Stripperguy inspired me to document mine when I read his Kite build. There seems to be such a mystique around strip building but it's really not a big deal. Of course you can make it as complicated and detailed as you want it to be but the basic build is pretty easy. And it's always fun seeing someone elses project. Do you have any pictures of yours available?

Alan

 

[Mihun09]

Built one stripper, took over 6 months, cost almost $1200 for materials.

http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=37685

 

[Alan Gage]

Both gunwales are epoxied in place and the clamps are off. They added 2 1/2 pounds. We're up to 23 lbs. 12 oz.

Tonight I worked on the mounts for the sliding seat. Pretty happy with how they came out and I think it will work fine. They'll add some strength to the hull as well. I epoxied the edges and am holding them in place with tape now. Once the epoxy sets up and they're held firmly in place I'll fiberglass them in. Aluminum rails will run front to back that the seat will slide on.


20140729_002 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Mihun, I look forward to going through your build thread. I got through the first couple pages earlier and it looked like you were doing really nice work. At that point the cost was still pretty low. I'll be curious to see where the high dollar amount came from.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Built one stripper, took over 6 months, cost almost $1200 for materials.

http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=37685

Boy, the epoxy and fiberglass really drove the price up in the end. Excellent work though. Beautiful boat. I think you're a lot fussier (in a good way) than I am.

When I built my first one a few years ago (Kite) I think it cost me close to $1000 or more. I bought precut strips (didn't do bead and cove) from Northwest canoe in St. Paul for somewhere around $500. No shipping but a 6 hour round trip. I also bought aluminum Bell gunwales to save weight, work, and time. It went together fairly quickly, except that I lost momentum after the inside was 'glassed and didn't get back to it for over a year.

This time the local lumberyard ordered me in 18' lengths of clear red cedar and I cut and beaded my own strips. I think the lumber cost was $200 and I had probably 3 1/2 hours into cutting and milling it. Fiberglass and epoxy both came from Raka at a total of $200 (again, if I remember right). Forms were cut from scrap pieces of MDF and particle board I already had laying around (they worked great, despite the warnings against them in some books). Gunwales are from Alder lumber I bought for some cabinet projects I haven't gotten to yet. There will still be plenty left for the cabinets. Making my own fiberglass seat from a mold I made from another seat I had (did the same on my Kite build). I use scrap pieces for that. Will use spar varnish from the hardware store, probably $20. So I'm guessing $500-$550 spent on materials by the time I'm done and I'll have a fair amount of epoxy left over.

Having a nicer shop, better equipment, spare sheet goods and lumber laying around, and more woodworking experience are certainly speeding up this project up, keeping costs down, and making it more enjoyable. But when I did my first I had virtually no woodworking experience, hardly any equipment and really wasn't all that confident I'd be able to do it. I was pleasantly surprised how easy and forgiving it was. Of course everyone will approach it differently. What's good enough for me wouldn't be for someone else.

Alan

 

[stripperguy]

Alan,
I have similar viewpoints s you...I like to build a purposeful hull, as cost effectively as possible too!
I have posted several build threads to get folks motivated and expose the strip building "mystique".
It's just a series of small steps, and a few dollars (or loonies) at a time.
For all those folks following your thread that are dreaming about their own build, I say just go for it!!
Even a first effort has its rewards, and not just in the shape of a canoe...

BTW, your build looks great, and I am still impressed with your rapid progress!

 

[ppine]

Nice build and one of the best documented I have seen. I have never built a stripper, but used to build fiberglass sailboats up north of Seattle. I built a Pygmy sea kayak from a kit out of African Mahogany with stitch and glue. West System epoxy has several formulations for different temperatures. I like to use wood dust with epoxy as a thickening agent that can disappear.

Your build is really light, but from the pictures of other racing boats, you have plenty of experience with lightly built boats. The Pygmy Coho was 17' 6" and weighed about 42 pounds with a deck. It was light enough to carry on a shoulder.

Kudos to you Alan. Looking at your thread made my day.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm happy to hear others are enjoying the build as well. It's inspires to me keep documenting!

Visible forward progress has slowed greatly. It's to the point now where all the big things are done and it's down to the little fiddly bits where you spend as much time, if not more, thinking as working. I complicated things a bit by deciding I want to try an integrated sliding foot brace. So when you slide the seat the foot brace slides too, at the same time. Been mulling it over for the past day or so and thought I had a workable idea. At least until I got home tonight and started laying things out, measuring, and weighing. That plan turned out to be more work and weight than I'd anticipated so I've got another that might work. But tomorrow I'll have to see if the components I need are even in town. That's always a big factor in what you can and can't do if you don't want to wait for UPS. If it gets too complicated I'll give up the idea for now and just put in a regular brace.

I did get some good work done on the seat mounts tonight though and have them fiberglassed in place. Also rounded over the outside edge of the shear so I don't skin my knuckles when paddling and gave the gunwales a good coating of epoxy. My fiberglass tape showed up today (found a supplier only 3 hours from here so normal shipping gets things here in just a day or two!) but I decided not to use it on the gunwales, at least not now. Too much multi-tasking to try and get a good even coat on the gunwales and fiddle with fiberglass tape at the same time.

Pics tomorrow.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

. West System epoxy has several formulations for different temperatures. I like to use wood dust with epoxy as a thickening agent that can disappear.

Last time I used Raka's no blush hardener and it gives you a really long time. But I also remember it took forever to get hard when it was a little cool in the shop. I knew I didn't wan to be held up waiting for epoxy to set up since I wanted to paddle the boat yet this summer so I went with their regular "slow" hardener. So far it's worked out but it really keeps you motivated, no time to stop and smell the roses. It always surprises me how fast the cup starts warming up when it starts to kick. The only consolation is knowing that at least that means I mixed the ratio correctly. It would help if I poured it in something shallower and flatter to keep it cooler. I had more working time when I was using the roller and tray on the inside.

I like using cedar dust too as a thickener though sometimes it's too dark if that's all I use. I'm finding a combination of cabosil and cedar dust can be pretty darn good in the color department if you get it right.

Your build is really light, but from the pictures of other racing boats, you have plenty of experience with lightly built boats. The Pygmy Coho was 17' 6" and weighed about 42 pounds with a deck. It was light enough to carry on a shoulder.

That's pretty darn light for a kayak! That's about the same weight as my old Epic 18x in standard layup, and that was meant to be a lightweight boat with kevlar, some carbon, and honeycomb core.

I got into canoe and kayak racing pretty seriously for a couple years and then kind of lost interest. I went through a lot of boats trying to find what was right for me. I buy used when I find a really good deal and then if it doesn't work I can get my money back out of it. I've gotten rid of all my racing boats now but I wanted something that was a good deal quicker than my Magic or Jensen WWC1 for workout paddles but without the learning curve of a C1 J style boat. I've been intrigued by this design for the past few years but could hardly find any information on it. I'm really excited to get it out and see what I've got. It would be nice to get back onto racing in a less serious way and this might be a good boat for that.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Another slow night. Lots of fiddling and thinking. The integrated foot brace is still a go. The mounts/slides for the foot brace are cut out and ready but I didn't epoxy them in place yet. I wanted another night to sleep on it and make sure I didn't change my mind.

Threw all the seat/foot brace components in the boat and weighed it. 27lbs. 12 oz. with thwarts and varnish yet to go. I'll be lucky to keep it under 30, I don't think it will happen. Not the end of the world . It gives me a whole new appreciation for builders of super lightweight boats. If I ever get ambitious and start playing with carbon fiber I could always redo the seat components and thwarts.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Mike - Thank you for the compliment and the generous offer. But are you sure you don't want to keep them? It doesn't take much capital to get into basic vacuum bagging and it seems like something that would come in handy for you. It doesn't have to be in a "bag." Pretty sure I've seen pics of people using it for "on the boat" repairs as well, just taping the plastic off to the hull to seal. Does a nice job of squeezing out the excess resin and leaves everything very smooth.

Alan, well, you may have talked me into trying my hand at vacuum bagging. I actually have two small vacuum pumps in the shop, so I’ll look into procuring the other materials needed.

Which begs the question – having plenty of cloth and resin, vacuum pumps and perforated release film, what do I need to set up a vacuum bag and where do I order it?

Last night I ordered some fiberglass tape. I think I'd like to wrap the gunwales for a little extra protection seeing as how they're pretty soft wood.

I am a big fan of fiberglass tape and have rolls in sizes from 1” to 4”, including some bias weave stuff. The only problem with fiberglass tape is that the seamed edges stand tall and razor sharp after the epoxy cures and so require careful sanding or the use of peel ply (the seamed edges vanish completely with peel ply).

I will echo a previous comment – this is the best and most helpfully documented build I’ve ever read, and I know how stopping to take photos and write up the progress s l o w s down the whole process. (Although in my case it often serves to make me stop and think about the next sequential steps and preparations, and sometimes gives me pause to catch an impending mistake before it is actually made).

BTW – Loved the clamps photo

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan, well, you may have talked me into trying my hand at vacuum bagging. I actually have two small vacuum pumps in the shop, so I’ll look into procuring the other materials needed.

Which begs the question – having plenty of cloth and resin, vacuum pumps and perforated release film, what do I need to set up a vacuum bag and where do I order it?

I think all you'd need is a vacuum fitting to connect vacuum to the bag, bleeder fabric, and something to use as the bag. Almost all composite retailers handle vacuum bagging supplies as well. Before I thought of using kitchen garbage bags, which have been working ok for the small stuff I've been doing lately, I thought about going to the hardware store and picking up some 1 or 2 mil. plastic sheeting. I think you want something with a little stretch so that it can conform to the part if it has a complicated shape. You can of course buy bag material too.

The bleeder fabric is a thickish layer of some fabricky material. It allows the air to flow out of the bag as you're pulling a vacuum and absorbs excess resin before it gets sucked into your vacuum pump. Basically you'll have the piece you're fiberglassing, some sort of peel ply over that, the bleeder fabric over that, and then everything goes in the bag.

Fiberglast has a nice writeup on the process:

http://www.fibreglast.com/product/vacuum-bagging-equipment-and-techniques-for-room-temp-applications

http://blog.fibreglast.com/fibre-glast-products/basic-vacuum-bagging-set-up/

Good luck!

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Little update over the past couple days. Like I said earlier, more thinking and tinkering than actually doing. I should also say that if you love all things wood and traditional in canoes this would be a good place to stop reading.

The mounts for the sliding seat are fiberglassed in place now:


20140731_016 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

And with the rails:


20140731_017 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Cutting those mounts to fit the hull is a lot easier than it probably looks since you have perfect patterns already laying around (the forms). Just trace the profile onto your piece of wood, cut outside the line, test fit, and sand where needed for a nice fit.

There is one place in town that sells some aluminum stock but they never have tubing over 1" in diameter and I need something that will slide over that 1" tubing for the sliding seat to work. Usually I end up making some tubing out of fiberglass (wrap 1" tubing with plastic so that it doesn't stick and to build thickness and then wrap with fiberglass tape. When done extract aluminum tube by any means necessary and you're left with a fiberglass tube) which is messy and ugly but works. This time I realized that I could just use thin-wall drain pipe. It's 1 1/4" and you can buy it in short sections as it's made for plumbing the trap on your bathroom vanity. Much thinner than schedule 40 so lightweight as well. It doesn't need to support any weight, just slide.

I fiberglassed aluminum cross rails to the seat and then fiberglassed the drain pipe to those. ​The seat and at least some of the aluminum rails will get painted.


20140801_010 by Alan Gage, on Flickr


20140801_011 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

If you remember I did stemless construction so I thickened some epoxy to reinforce the area behind the stems. It will be slathered with a skinny stick.


20140801_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

This is as smooth as I could get it with either my finger or the stick:


20140801_004 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

So I put on some peel ply. This should give it a much nicer finish and it also makes it easier to massage out high/low spots after the peel ply is stuck on. We'll see how it looks tomorrow after it's hard:


20140801_005 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

If you're building a boat or doing any work with fiberglass get yourself some peel ply. It's cheap and works great.

And now for the thwarts! With my skinny little inwales I was a little unsure how I would attach my thwarts. Spent a couple days rolling different ideas around in my head and wasn't real confident in any of them. I decided to go with aluminum tubing (cheap, easy, and lightweight) and after a quick test fitting it looks like I fretted over the installation for no reason. Looks like they'll work fine with the skinny inwale.

Working with aluminum tubing is pretty complicated:


20140801_006 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Smashy smashy:


20140801_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr


20140801_008 by Alan Gage, on Flickr


20140801_009 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

A vice would certainly do a nicer job, be faster, and look better, but I don't have a vice set up in my shop yet so it is what it is.

All the thwarts are ready to install. Tomorrow I'll rivet them in place. I weighed all 4 thwarts and the total weight was 11oz. I might make sub-30lbs. afterall.

Tomorrow I hope to finish up the integrated footbrace. Once that and the thwarts are done it will be time for the final sanding and varnishing. Weather looks really nice this weekend. I don't think I'll be able to keep it out of the water. Varnishing can wait until after the (hopeful) paddle.

Alan

 

[Guest]

I should also say that if you love all things wood and traditional in canoes this would be a good place to stop reading.

I like it. An easy, lightweight KISS solution. If you have aluminum tubing needs in the future than can’t be met at the local hardware store have a look at the array of aluminum tube available from Texas Towers:

http://www.texastowers.com/aluminum-6.htm

I know that paddlers use TT for sleeved aluminum tubes for foot braces and DIY canoe poles, and other aluminum parts and pieces as well.

So I put on some peel ply. This should give it a much nicer finish and it also makes it easier to massage out high/low spots after the peel ply is stuck on. We'll see how it looks tomorrow after it's hard.

I am sold on the advantages of using peel ply in many glass/epoxy applications and look back on hours of sanding that could have been lessened or avoided completely with more than a little regret.

All the thwarts are ready to install. Tomorrow I'll rivet them in place

I mentioned this in another thread – I like having some tie down points in the canoe and install short webbing loops on the end of machines screws and pop rivets. It would certainly not be traditional in a stripper build, but having a few tie points is handy, and if all I have to do is slide a piece of webbing over a pop rivet shank or machine screw end I’ll take it.



Thanks for the vacuum bagging links. I’ll give it a try on the next rebuild.

 

[Alan Gage]

I like the webbing loop idea. Don't know if they'll make it onto this boat but they certainly will be added to some of my others. I see the manufacturing process for them is very complicated.

I've bought tubing from TT before but my problem is that when I order it I think that it will be enough to last me forever. And then next time I need tubing I realize that I'm out or don't have the right size. And of course I want to do the project now rather than wait for shipping so I find some other way that works. And then I don't order any tubing because I don't need it now and don't see myself needing it in the foreseeable future. Then of course the unforeseeable future comes along and I'm doomed to repeat the whole process over and over. Life is so hard sometimes.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

This is by far the most exciting day of the build.....the integrated seat/foot brace works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently you can't embed video here so here's a link to a video of it in action: https://www.flickr.com/photos/7935459@N05/14624008430/

Lots of dancing and hollering. I had to share something now. More details later tonight.

Alan

 

[Guest]

I like the webbing loop idea. I see the manufacturing process for them is very complicated.

Yeah, it takes serious shop skills. A 20-penny common nail head heated over a torch will melt and seal a perfect 3/16” hole. The tape is just there to hold the ends of the webbing aligned while I melt the holes, and if you install the loops one at a time while the melted hole is still hot everything mushes down flush and firm.

I've bought tubing from TT before but my problem is that when I order it I think that it will be enough to last me forever. And then next time I need tubing I realize that I'm out or don't have the right size. And of course I want to do the project now rather than wait for shipping so I find some other way that works. And then I don't order any tubing because I don't need it now and don't see myself needing it in the foreseeable future. Then of course the unforeseeable future comes along and I'm doomed to repeat

I understand completely. I have tried to adopt the philosophy that, when I find I need two of something that I need to order and wait for, I just go ahead and buy four. Or a dozen.

Shipping and handling costs being what they are that is sometimes several dozen. I have enough nylon pad eyes to last a lifetime; I bought 100 and still have 50 left.

I had the good fortune to purchase my stainless steel machine screws, washers and etc from an old-timey nut, bolt and fastener place. “Old timey” as in a dusty and sprawling basement warehouse, staffed by some crotchety old guys who knew exactly where everything was stashed.

They would wander around and fill my stainless steel order for 6 of these and 12 of these – various machine screws, washers, flange washers, cap nut and other esoterica and, on trying to total my tab, give up and declare “How about $20 for the lot?

$20 for all the stainless I can carry. Deal!

Lots of dancing and hollering. I had to share something now. More details later tonight.

Dancing and hollering either means it all came together and functioned as predicted, or something didn’t quite work as anticipated. I’ll await the details.

 

[Momentum]

This is by far the most exciting day of the build.....the integrated seat/foot brace works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lots of dancing and hollering. I had to share something now. More details later tonight.

Alan

What a great idea, and it looks like you have executed it very well. It should certainly do the trick.

You had said earlier that those of us that prefer the traditional canoes should stop reading...Well, I can't stop!
I am on the traditional side of canoe builds but am not a purist in the sense that maybe there are some fantastic features that can be incorporated into the traditional style that will make the canoe handle better or achieve a lighter weight.
I love to learn new techniques too.
Keep up the good work Alan.

Momentum