Larger Canoe: Tumblehome or Not

[MrPoling]

I like tumblehome better, especially in the center of wide canoes. But it is a very small, almost trivial factor in a lake and mild river canoe.

Why three in one canoe? Are these adults? I'd want something like the Wenonah Minnesota 3, which is 20 ft long. A canoe that big is only good for tripping with three people.

You said you don't have a canoe now. I'd recommend a 16 to 17 ft general use canoe. Something like a North Star Northwind, Winonah Spirit 2, or Swift Keewaydin. These canoes could be used for anything from solo fishing to a tandem multi-day trip.

Then if you decided to go on a trip with three people you could find another tandem, they are pretty easy to find used.

Good luck

 

[Keeled Over]

Not sure I’m completely following you there @Keeled Over … these canoes aren’t cheap, currently have no canoe, and looking to make the best long term investment that I can. Tumblehome is one part of the equation and some of the canoes I’ve been looking at are very close, save things like these smaller design tweaks. I’m not a go out and buy the one that’s in my favorite color type of guy.

Nor am I. My point is that there are not a ton of different hulls that meet your needs. So, if -

"On tumblehome however essentially what it comes down to is I have a few canoes on the shortlist that are pretty much the same width / weight / length / all are Kevlar epoxy, etc. - there really aren’t many drastic differences on paper, but having tumblehome or flare is one of the things that stands out. It is likely I’ll have to buy without a test paddle. One builder is even telling me they can add tumblehome if I want or leave it flared."

Pretty much the same dimensions. Not any drastic differences on paper. Have to buy without a test paddle. Based on these, for me, it would make the selection process easier, and availability and price can have a bigger impact. Bunch of well designed and manufactured boats out there - if a lack of tumble-home was a big issue it probably would have been addressed by now.

Nothing wrong with doing research - I do plenty myself. Good luck.

 

[MrPoling]

Some of the other canoes I’ve been looking at are asymmetrical (H20 Outfitter 18.5’, Swift Keewaydin 18.6, Lavieille 17.6). To round out the list I’ve been checking out there is the symmetrical hand laid Nighthawk Canoes Pegasus 18.5’ and the Savage River Voyageur 18.5’. I’m looking at Kevlar whichever route

I'd consider these two person tripping canoes.

I have an old 18.5 Mad River that has similar specs to these. It is a great canoe for myself, two 'tween kids, and our gear. Or two adults and their gear.

However, three adults and gear wouldn't work. Trimming it would be difficult. It wouldn't be seaworthy enough for poor conditions you'd eventually encounter on a long trip.

These canoes are also kind of large for anything but tripping.

You ask about tumblehome versus flare. The Lavieille 17.6 it's kind of weird with really aggressive flare on the ends. I wouldn't buy it without a test paddle.

 

[Keeled Over]

Paddle Time, Not sure if you had intended to canoe in Canada, bit if you do, and want to use their wonderful train system there is a max length of 18'. Or at least it used to be.

 

[memaquay]

With the weight you suggested, I strongly recommend you test paddle some canoes before buying. Take your time, and try them out in the situation you are suggesting. With great respect to the experience here, some of the suggestions are not realistic. You can't make an informed decision from just doing research. Any canoe will paddle straight with proper paddling technique, don't shy away from large prospector type canoes.
For the weights you are suggesting, many of the hulls mentioned would be at their max or over, and paddling in adverse conditions would be sketchy.
Depending where you live, canoes can hold a good resale value, so if you buy an expensive hull and then find that you don't like it, there is a good chance that given time you could get a fair percentage of your money back. However, it would make more sense to save yourself this process and get some hulls on the water to find out how they feel. Internet reviews are useful, but often times self proclaimed experts will champion a particular canoe because that is the only one they actually know, or even worse, because they have read many reviews saying it's great, but haven't actually paddled it.

 

[ppine]

paddle time,
Flare makes for a drier canoe. They shed waves. In a loaded canoe it can be a challenge to get through a long wave train without swamping a boat. Same in rough lake conditions. The less water in the boat the better.

 

[PaddleTime]

Thanks guys and I appreciate the discussion here. Lakes are currently frozen and this is a canoe forum, if I’m overthinking it I’d say this is hopefully the time and place to do so…

@Jim Dodd curious why you’d say tumblehome is more applicable to solo canoes? My first thought would be the bigger and wider the canoe the more it might help paddling. At the expense of seaworthiness perhaps (thanks and thanks @ppine for the comments there). I had not thought about how it could affect ride over waves. I am looking to take this on some larger lakes.

I am for sure looking to buy new on research and while it might be a gamble, I’ve used a similar approach with success before across a variety of pursuits. Hence the research. Granted there’s a chance canoes might be different. I’m not in “canoe country” thus test paddles are not possible for these canoes. I might be able to test paddle 1 of them but it would be a couple years before I could. @Steve in Idaho listed some models I’m looking at any input appreciated. @Keeled Over thanks for the train tip - do plan on Canada but would be driving. That said for transport 18.5’ is already pushing it.

@MrPoling I had really settled on 18.5’ max - we pack light and it seems there are a lot of success stories out there of 3 using the SR Quetico 18.5 for example. 3 in one canoe - works best for our group. Need it to be good for 3 average size adults packing light. Smallest size we can get away with and still be comfortable is what I’m after. 18.5’ is lengthy on a vehicle and I need this work for fishing with 2 when not on a backcountry trip. 2 canoes would be “odd man out” and hoping to avoid that plus not looking to transport 2 canoes etc.

@memaquay , would you say a large prospector especially if more limited in rocker (2” or under perhaps) I’m guessing would be a good compromise?

Kinda sounding like maybe the widest 18.5’ I can get (for the most load capacity) and that fits the other parameters might be a good way to go.

 

[Alan Gage]

Need it to be good for 3 average size adults packing light.

"Average" size adults and "packing light" mean different things to different people.

I think of 160 pounds as an average weight. To other people average will be 200.

To me packing light means taking a minimum of food (all dried), minimum shelter (of lightweight construction), down sleeping quilts, ultralight sleeping pads, no "extra" clothing, and no creature comforts (chairs, booze, fishing gear, etc).

To other people packing light means only bringing whiskey and leaving the wine at home, one rod per person, brining two tents and one tarp, and only one cast iron pan.

Lakes are currently frozen and this is a canoe forum, if I’m overthinking it I’d say this is hopefully the time and place to do so…

Different people approach things differently but just keep in mind that the advice you're getting are from people who have been through the same thing as you (beginner canoe tripper) and who now have years of experience and have owned many different canoes. Don't throw that advice away. Pay attention to what they think is important/unimportant.

Alan