Carbon Copy Kite

[Cruiser]

Using the foam strips in place of cedar strips is what I have rolling around in my head. My understanding is that you can slice, cove and bead just like wood.

I also read that you can use gorilla glue to hold the foam together .... that along with staple less build techniques should work and when the foam is all assembled, it should lock the shape in .... jut like wood.

I priced out the 1/4" divinyl for strips and the $$$ sort of made me cringe a bit, but foam plus carbon, with a light glass should be 10#s lighter than the cedar core if my modelling is correct.

Brian

 

[Sven]

How about this guys technique for building stapleless? Maybe using a quick set epoxy to glue the foam strips together, that way you could possibly move from one side to the other keeping the build going. Rather than only being able to add a couple strips per day.

 

[wingnut]

I build without staples and as the glued strips set up, clamped to the form, they take the shape of the form. when the clamp is removed they do have some spring back but as the next strip is glued and clamped they are pulled back tight to the form again. It might be a good option for a foam core boat. I'm curious how rigid a 1/4" thick foam strip would be compared to a cedar strip. The forms on my first boat were spaced almost 2' apart and it faired out without any problems. I'm guessing with the forms spaced at 6" and the foam strips beaded and coved the foam would hold the shape pretty well.

 

[Cruiser]

I like Jason Eke's videos and the tape will work fine for some shapes. All the canoes I have built so far have rather more severe curves than the one depicted and that means you need to add some sort of clamping to pull it in to each mold station. I also find, in general, that I needed tension in more places to ensure a tight joint all the way along the strip.

The Gorilla glue has a 20-30 minute clamp time, which means you should be able to put more than a few strips on in a day ... and for the first part (before the turn at the bilge) I will often do 2 strips at once. So .. . it really is just about the same as using the cedar strips (from a build PoV).

IMO epoxy will just be too messy and just add another layer of cpmplexity/expense to the build ... although I would test the GG before I used it on the build just to satisfy myself it works for the purpose.

My thinking is running to 6 oz carbon/4 oz glass on the outside and kevlar 5.5/4 oz glass inside (or maybe carbon inside as well) ... the glass would just be for abrasion protection.

Brian

 

[stripperguy]

Hmmm, maybe the epoxy would be unnecessary. From what I've done so far, 1/4" foam would be bombproof and probably overkill. Really, the sample (and my stiffened bottom) is quite stiff with 1/8" thick foam. Likewise for the carbon and/or kevlar, there's really no need for those materials. E-glass is more than adequate. If you would try to balance cost, strength, weight, I'm pretty sure foam/glass is plenty good.

 

[latremorej]

How much heat is needed to shape the foam? Oven? Heat gun? Hair dryer? Would it be possible to construct a clamp that would fit over the whole station, (loft out the station mold adding the thickness of your foam) slowly apply clamping pressure and heat the foam with the gun and as the foam takes the shape of your station form, clamp it in place? I know nothing about this but it's very interesting! Just an out side the box idea. The foam would probably have clamp impressions unless you pad it out I suppose.... I guess if it were that easy, it would have been done already. Lol

Jason

After looking up divinycel uses:
"Heating
The best way to heat the Divinycell is in a heated platen press with fixed stops or in a circulating hot air
oven.
Infrared heaters could also be used up to 10-15 mm (25/64-19/32 in) thickness. The IR-waves will not
penetrate deep enough on thicknesses above that.
If the temperature is too high the dimension stability will be affected and if it is too low the spring back
will be too big. An uneven temperature distribution will make the Divinycell twist." So much for that idea. Hahaha

 

[wingnut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIzRnTgpl3M
Here's an episode of how it's made making a Kevlar canoe. Its interesting to watch the whole thing but if you go to 1:45 they are heating the high density foam for ribs. It looks like the foam heats quickly and without a lot of heat. I'm guessing they are heating a 4" wide piece so if you imagine heating a 3/4" wide strip for bending the problem might be applying too much heat too quickly.
As far as price for the foam, it looks like you can get a 1/4" 4 x 8 sheet for $80, giving you 32 SQ feet. Figuring the area of a curved surface of a boat is beyond my capabilities but if you figure 1.5' tall for the sides, 16' long, 3' wide half the length for the bottom. 3 sheets should put you in the ballpark.

 

[Jim Dodd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIzRnTgpl3M
Here's an episode of how it's made making a Kevlar canoe. Its interesting to watch the whole thing but if you go to 1:45 they are heating the high density foam for ribs. It looks like the foam heats quickly and without a lot of heat. I'm guessing they are heating a 4" wide piece so if you imagine heating a 3/4" wide strip for bending the problem might be applying too much heat too quickly.
As far as price for the foam, it looks like you can get a 1/4" 4 x 8 sheet for $80, giving you 32 SQ feet. Figuring the area of a curved surface of a boat is beyond my capabilities but if you figure 1.5' tall for the sides, 16' long, 3' wide half the length for the bottom. 3 sheets should put you in the ballpark.

I would guess two sheets would be plenty for a 15'9" solo, with one seam in the middle. Also plenty of scrap left over, for reinforcements,decks, and tanks, if need.

This is getting real interesting. Need to start a new thread !

Jim

 

[stripperguy]

Oh Jiiim,
Check your messages

 

[stripperguy]

Just about done. Still need to sand the outside, paint inside and out, and...and uhmmm. Hmm, I guess that's about it!

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[stripperguy]

That's it! It's as done as it's gettin'
I could have sanded the outside better, but I'm only gonna thrash and bash it anyways...
It's going on its first ADK trip come Friday.

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[Jim Dodd]

Looks nice ! Ebony and Ivory.

Jim

 

[FuzzyBadger]

Looks great! Are you pleased with how it turned out? Have a great trip.
Fuzz

 

[deerfly]

function over looks every time for me... Put a rattle can camo job on there and it will be redneck showroom grade

 

[stripperguy]

Looks great! Are you pleased with how it turned out? Have a great trip.
Fuzz

For a practice boat, I'm satisfied. The lessons learned are worth way more than the 11 or 12 lbs that I saved!
I am pleased that the wetted section is an exact duplicate, but the sheer is too short and wavy, a consequence of using my fully finished Kite as a plug.

I hope my posts have helped to educate and motivate...

 

[Jim Dodd]

I hope my posts have helped to educate and motivate...

Most definitely !! It's been a fun ride. We'll have more !

Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

Boat looks great. Even better that it's hitting the water so soon. You made very short work of that and the weight savings over the cedar strip is impressive.

I hope my posts have helped to educate and motivate...

The willingness to share the whole building journey is, I believe, what makes the building community here so special. Too often on other sites I see someone post about starting a build and then 6 months later post the finished pics with nothing in between. Stumbling across your original Kite build is what brought me to this forum in the first place and made me want to document and share my own builds.

Alan

 

[stripperguy]

Jim,
I'm counting on you to carry on the foam investigations.

Alan,
I have certainly noticed the collaborative cooperative trend in these threads. That's due to you, me, Jim, Mem, and so many others that I can't remember everyone.
I know there are many builders on Woodenboat, but here is different. Here, it seems to me, most are interested in adding to the collective knowledge base, rather than just pounding their chests. And all of us builders use our boats. We don't just display them!

 

[Jim Dodd]

In all the my confusion yesterday. I forgot to take Alan some Divinycell from you !

I'll ship him a piece tomorrow !

Thanks again !

Jim

 

[latremorej]

Nicely done sir! Enjoy the trip! I'll be waiting for the action shots!

Jason

Wait.... What about the seat? I must have missed something