Length considerations for a canoe axe: function and safety

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'm sure he can make what ever you want, but really a 1/4 to 1/2 a pound is really not much if the axe is well balance!!

Balance is a factor to be considered among many others, and I don't think we've discussed it in any detail. Mors Kochanski prefers an axe that balances by the shoulder and also from side-to-side -- i.e., neither the bit end nor poll end should dip down when balanced.

These two photos show a Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe and a Wetterlings Large Hunting Axe balancing almost perfectly in both dimensions.

This next photo shows a Gerber (= Fiskars) Camp Axe II being very bit heavy.

This fourth photo is a Council Tool Velvicut Hudson Bay Axe with 24" handle balancing on the edge of a table. Because of the big beard on a Hudson Bay axe, the bit end balances a little heavy. The Best Made Hudson Bay axe, which I along with Memaquay like, has the same Velvicut head, so it should similarly balance slightly bit heavy. I'm not sure that the handle balance would be much different, since the Best Made handle is 2" longer but supposedly slightly slimmer than the Velvicut.

 

[Odyssey]

This question of balance is something I've wondered about. It stands to reason one may not want a poll heavy head interfering with the swing and in particular, the moment of blade impact. Who wants a wobbly headed sharp blade striking wood a mere 30" away? I'm not sure about an axe being a little head heavy being a great disadvantage. It would be less comfortable when held one-handed for sure, and perhaps a little less safe. All that mass however might be an advantage when blade meets wood. I don't know about this stuff. I'll have to check my axe to see how balanced it is, just out of curiosity. If it's unbalanced, it just may be another excuse for me to expand my limited "collection" (the first excuse being "I want a nicer looking one"). I shouldn't discount my wanting a better axe, but even that is getting harder to define.

 

[oldie moldy]

I agree that Best Made Hudson Bay axe sure is pretty. If it weren't for the problem of the head coming loose I'd be all for it. True, they have put those stabilizing ridges inside the head and I don't doubt they work. But consider what it means if you had to put a new handle on the head. Given that I don't have a press like that, it would be a nightmare to do it. Probably be most merciful to send it back and see if they'd put a new handle on for you.
Really, it kinda reminds me of a fat lady who wears vertical stripes so she can look slimmer. C'mon sweetheart, if you want to look slimmer then get slimmer.

I do like that extended cutting surface, I'd hazard a guess that most axes are broken when you over shoot and smack the wood handle, that long sharp ought to help there.

Something else to consider: Traditional Woodworker.com has Biber axes, I've got the 2 3/4 pound Forest Axe. I really like it except that the handle right by the head is made much thicker. It's too thick for me to get a good grip if I'm doing close up work as I often do. The closest I can grip still leaves about 6" of wood between my hand and the head. It's one of those trade off things, I'm sure the handle is more resistant to being broken, so there you go, take your pick. The same handle is used on the 2 1/4 pound forest axe as well.

Checking my facts this morning, I noticed a new axe by Biber: 1 3/4 pound Forest Axe, 4 1/2" sharp, Handle 23 1/2". I'd guess that they wanted to offer something in the "Boy's axe" neighborhood.

I did a write up and pictures over on the Reviews section, listed under "Variations on a Forest Axe" when I got my Biber axe.

Studying the looks of that 1 3/4 lb. axe, I believe I'd rather have a Gransfor Bruk for that kind of money.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Canotrouge]

I'm totally with OM on this... And one more thing, that hudson bay on the last photo, really look like the "bearded" part of the head is actually resting against the table.... Maybe not... I would stick to Gränsfors if you want something right away, that looks good, that is reliable... But I think my next axe will be that middle of nowhere from Brent Bailey forge... If I could only find some one in Canada that forge axes in a regular basis, I would probably try them out....
Cheers

 

[Guest]

I keep hearing phrases like “sure is pretty” and “looks good” and wonder how much subliminal influence the appearance holds in selecting a tripping axe.

Something ugly but economical and effective (see Fiskars or others) versus something that was equally efficient but “cool looking” for twice the cost….

 

[Canotrouge]

Something made in China vs something made in America or at least from people that can actually earn a living making it. I will always go with the second choice if given the choice.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I drove to Collinsville today to look at this Collins Hudson Bay axe, which is now listed on Ebay for $95.

I thought I might offer $40 cash and see what happened. I wasn't even motivated to do that. The head was loose. I was surprised how small and toy-like it seemed. The head weighs 2 lbs. according the the Collins axe display at the Collinsville museum, which I also visited, and I measured it at 26.5". It was a tiny antique store and all they had for a scale was a human one, and the total weight was probably a shade under three pounds.

I can get a brand new Council Tools standard grade Hudson Bay Axe for $40 on Amazon. The problem with the CT standard grade HBA is that the head is only 1.75 pounds, unlike the 2.0 pound head on the CT Velvicut HBA or the Best Made HBA.

The Collins HBA just seemed like a hatchet with a long handle, yet it's the same size or slightly bigger than the GB Scandinavian Axe and the Wetterlings Swedish Forest Axe in this picture:

I wanted portability but now I'm not sure about the usefulness to me of such small axes. The Les Stroud Bushman Axe and the Wetterlings Foresters Fine Axe are both clearly too short, small and light for my image of a two-handed axe. The GB SFA is clearly out of the running.

Then I went into a Collinsville hardware story and saw a bunch of cringe-inducing "Collins" axes made by Truper in Mexico. There were a couple of Chinese Snow & Nealy's, which seemed too head-heavy for their length (to me). Frankly, the best feeling axe was the Fiskars 28" Chopping Axe, which is the big brother of the Fiskars X15. It's very bit heavy and is very wedgy in top profile. It should be a very good chopper and splitter.

I also liked the Fiskars hatchet the best of all they had, which wasn't much--just some more cheap "Collins" hatchets, a Snow & Nealey and an Eastwing. I don't like the all-metal of the Eastwing.

I'm now thinking my decision not to carry an axe all these decades has been the correct one for me. I don't need a "real axe" on a canoe trip just for firewood, and I'm not convinced a 1.5-2.0 pound axe head on a 20"-26" handle does much more for me than my folding saw, new bushcraft knives and machete.

But I can get 20% off a Council Tools 26" Velvicut Bad Axe Boys Axe (2.25 lb. head) or 22" Velvicut Hudson Bay Axe today at the Zoro site with the coupon code "HUGEGAME". That brings these axes down to about $100 with free shipping.

Well, I'll still continue some research and posting on axes but I'm losing interest. My third and "real" fixed blade knife has been snow delayed until Monday, and I probably should knife baton several thousand logs before I buy an axe. Does 10 degree F weather make wood harder to baton?

The axe display at the Collinsville museum was mildly interesting. They actually had a lot more old Collins machetes on display than axe heads. The military in WW II needed machetes a lot more than axes, according the the 99 year old lady in the museum. I did verify that the axe head on the wobbly Ebay axe was a genuine Collins. It was near closing time, so I didn't have time to leaf through the old Collins catalogs they had there.

I should have had my camera to take pictures of the old Collins factory on the river and the museum displays.

I also went across the street to the former Collinsville Canoe Store (a Swift outlet), which should now be called the Collinsville Kayak & SUP store. I did see a beautiful 15' Swift Keewaydin in the new TeXtreme carbon fabric -- but do we talk about canoes here?

 

[Holmes375]

....I did see a beautiful 15' Swift Keewaydin in the new TeXtreme carbon fabric -- but do we talk about canoes here?

We do but only as long as the canoe ain't doin' any of that Freestyle kinda stuff

 

[Canotrouge]

ther is nothing wrong with the Firskas axes... I have a small splitting hatchet that I bring on trip as a loaner so my brother in law can hi the ground with it and split with the handle.... Good little axe that is maintenance free.
Cheers

 

[oldie moldy]

I can certainly relate to anyone who is careful of what they spend and is watching for bargains, especially on the inter-net. Looking at various manufacture's sites, it seems that they are vexed with counterfeit copies of their products. Someone buys this "great bargain" that fails to live up to the reputation of the name brand and they contact the company demanding satisfaction. Bad deal all around except for the Chinese counterfeiter.

A real quality knife or axe isn't a short term investment and I'd suggest that we as the end user ought to be willing to support quality by buying from genuine sources when we are looking for a knife or axe. And really, even the highest price you can find for, say an axe, divided out over the life of that axe is nothing compared to the pleasure in using a fine tool.

Mike brings up an interesting question when he wonders how much of a part does pretty play, even subliminally, in the selection of a tool like an axe? This is one of those things that don't lend themselves to scientific measurement. I do know that one of those plastic axes leaves me cold and even if it chopped like gang-busters, the most it could hope for would be to be tossed in the back of the truck for times of desperation.
We've used axes since before "the time when men knew the taste of bread" I almost wonder if deep in our minds we have an idea of what's right for a tool and what's mighty peculiar. Something strong and deep is at work, I just can't put my finger on it.

Well Glenn, just an observation; your trip where you got to hold the axe you were interested in told you a lot that couldn't be discovered by looking at pictures. But really, you don't have any tactial history with any axe that worked for you so you are somewhat limited in how well you can judge axes. This was my reasoning when I suggested that Husqavarna forest axe, it's economical and just about middle of the road for a light axe for camping.

There is no question that you are a master at finding these videos, are there any out there where they show batoning and axe chopping side by side? Might be something to think about before you leave the idea of axe.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

As I said in an earlier post, most of my purchases are based on aesthetic considerations . . . and so it MUST be with an axe. I can't base a decision on functional performance because I have no way of even laying hands on Swedish or German axes, much less being able to comparative chop with any axe. When one has no personal experience with a product, and also has no way to test paddle them, the only thing left is to seek informed opinions, read reviews and watch videos.

What I mean by aesthetic considerations is more than just looks. It includes what I called tactile aesthetics -- how it balances, how it feels, how it interacts with ones particular musculature. Historical aesthetics and patriotic aesthetics are also important to me. I am highly motivated to buy products made in the USA, particularly ones of historical significance. Those are the important things to me, not how the axe can cut in the hands of a professional axe man. An axe to me will be a very, very, very occasional use item. Any axe can cut well enough for my modest needs. But I will put it next to my fire place and look at it every day. I may want to handle and stroke it. And I want good vibes flowing when I do.

I've paid close attention to the Husqvarna Forest Axe. It's in my top seven for my canoe tripping size range, which means 23"-26" of usable length and a head weight of 2.0-2.3 pounds. In no particular order:

MADE IN THE USA (highly favored)

Best Made Hudson Bay Axe
Council Tool Velvicut Bad Axe Boys Axe
Council Tool Forest Service Boys Axe
Collins Hudson Bay Axe -- used and in very good shape

MADE IN (yuppie, trendy) SCANDINAVIA

Gransfors Bruks Scandinavian Forest Axe
Husqvarna Forest Axe (by Hultafors)
Fiskars X15

The first five are all in the $120-$140 range. The Husq is about $60; the Fiskars is $28.58, shipped, at Zoro (which is a Grainger discount store).

The Fiskars has a good tactile handle feel to me because its black composite handle reminds me of my two ZRE carbon paddles, which have been my favorite paddling tools for the past several years. The black and orange colors are my birthday colors (Halloween).

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Some pictures from the Best Made store in Greenwich Village, NYC, which I plan on visiting. I like their Italian leather work gloves.

Speaking of yuppy trendiness, get a load of the Best Made painted axes.

The painted Hudson Bay Axes cost $255.

The painted American Felling Axes cost $300.

 

[Canotrouge]

The most hipster store in the world, Sell stuff to people that will never use it, at a price way higher than you can find elsewhere... I bought a few things from them when they started, and never been unsatisfied, but when I started to look around and shop, I found that you pay a premium for the exact same product at Best made than you can find in an other place on the net. Just keep that in mind... Buy a Council tool axe, a can of paint, and you have save your self a lot of cash... Same axe here no better steel or wood, some of the wood is running the wrong way etc etc...

As for the Made in yuppi trendy Scandinavia, they have been making axe before America was America, I think Ultafore as been making axes since 1697...

Cheers

 

[oldie moldy]

Well, it could be just me but New York City is about the last place I'd go for knowledgeable people offering outdoor gear.
Pretty much like going to Antarctica to laze on the beach.

I am curious though, if you look in the upper left of the first photo, is that an U.S. Army packboard? Do you suppose that they realize (gasp!) that it came from the military?

You go for it Glenn! Can't stop a shopaholic eh?

Rob

 

[Rippy]

Glenn, I was one who suggested the Husqvarna Forest Axe, and I think it is a good axe. Butttt if you're looking for aesthetics you might want to pass on this one as it has a more of a rustic black smithy unfinished appearance. I'm guessing that's why it is $60 and not more. I thought about shining mine up on the sander but then I'd have to keep it nice all the time. I'm going to give it reasonable care and use it like a axe instead.

I now think you should buy the Council Tool Velvicut Hudson Bay axe and paint it to match the VW bus in your avatar. Peace out.

 

[Guest]

I'd consider the "Gransfors Bruks Small Splitting Axe," Handle length 23", Axe head weight 2.3 lb. $150

The LL Bean ad copy says: "it's ready to split your toughest oak and ash like butter. Great for the camp or everyday woodcutting. Sharpened, polished and oiled for a fine finish. Axe head is firmly affixed to a hickory handle. Steel collar protects handle against missed strikes." Like butter, you say? Why, the axe head being firmly affixed to the handle, right there it's worth it.

The GB ad copy says: "The Gränsfors Large Splitting Axe can be used for splitting all types of firewood. It is forged and ground to a concave, quite thin blade at the bit. The axe cuts quickly and easily into the wood and then effectively splits it as the broader section pushes apart the wood. The handle has a protective steel collar below the axe head and circular grooves towards the end for an extra firm grip."

Yuppie. Young Urban Professional. I'm but one of the three.

Gotta go bring in some firewood ahead of the storm.

 

[Guest]

Interesting to compare the Council tool Manufacturing video and the advice and cautions in the Forest Service video. Worlds apart when it comes to using grinders, diagonal metal wedges and even where to best trim the handle.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Interesting to compare the Council tool Manufacturing video and the advice and cautions in the Forest Service video. Worlds apart when it comes to using grinders, diagonal metal wedges and even where to best trim the handle.

Bernie Weisgerber is clearly pre-and-anti-electricity, but I don't see much real difference. He cautions against using electric grinding wheels and belt sanders in the context of using them in such a manner as to generate too much heat to affect temper. The Council Tool video says the operators are carefully trained to avoid this mistake. Weisberg's antipathy to Grady wedges is inconsistent with other US Forest Service videos (see about the 18 minute mark) and the common practice US and Swedish manufacturers. He spoke against them when installed horizontally, cross-grain, not as usually diagonally installed. Many high end axes, including the Swedes, now leave the haft extending above the head on the theory that this increases tight adhesion.

Wait until we get to the wild world of sharpening an axe, where many advocate use sanding belts.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I've MADE MY DECISION as to which is the best axe for my needs, functionally.

It's a "boys axe" MADE IN THE USA. The length (26"-27"), head weight (2.25 lbs), and strength of head pattern (Dayton) all make the most functional sense to me. If it's been good enough for the US Forest Service for 100 years, that's a pretty convincing recommendation.

For a new boys axe, I'm only aware of Council Tools as completely All-American manufacturer. They make three versions: the standard at about $35 without sheath, the special FSS run with Velvicut handles (only available from Omaha Knife) for about $85-$94 depending on sheath, and the full Velvicut for a list of about $140 with sheath. The Velvicut line had a very polished look and more slender handles than the Grandfors Bruks, Wetterlings and Husqvarna axes.

The visual and historic appeal of the Hudson Bay Axe, and the wood carving appeal of the GB Scandinavian Forest Axe, are outweighed by the clear chopping and splitting advantage (in many reviews and videos) of the heavier boys axe, which is only a matter of eight or nine ounces. I'm also concerned about the head-loosening risk of the HBA compared to a full Dayton head.

To my current thinking, the boys axes at about 3.4 lbs. in total weight is essentially as portable as a 2.8 lb. HBA or the Swedish counterparts, which are all like semi-HBA's. But the boys axe can do heavier duty real chopping should I ever want to do so around my property.

The problem is now aesthetics. The Council Tool Velvicut line was the highest end and (to me) most aesthetic implementation of their boys axe. But CT has now changed the Velvicut look from a polished look, which was very attractive to me, to a semi-rough-forged, semi-Swedish, semi-UGLY look. This picture from Omaha Knife's Facebook page exploded throughout the bushcraft forums last May.

The change in looked drew almost universal dislike on all the bushcraft and blade forums. I dislike it also. It's neither black forge scale fish nor polished fowl. It looks like someone fell asleep at the polishing wheel. I talked to the Best Made store in NYC today, and they said the change in look was prompted by them. They wanted a more "natural" look that "didn't cover up forging mistakes" as polishing would do. In other words, they want them to look a little more like the yuppie, trendy Scandinavian axes. Phooey!!!!

I liked the CT Velvicut boys axe when they looked like this compared the emerged-from-a-swamp look (to use Memaquay's phrase) of the GB Scandinavian Forest axe.

I can get the Council Tool Velvicut boys axe (list $140) for the remainder of today with a 20% off from Zoro for $98, which is only four dollars more than than Omaha Knife's price for an FSS version with a comparable sheath. I was already to pull the trigger last night on this deal at 2 am, but then I saw the aesthetic degradation at 3 am.

So, my research journey for the best axe for my needs is over, but I'm not going to buy it because (a) my real-world needs are not strong enough and (b) and my aesthetic tastes don't run to an axe that looks like Manuel Noriega's face.

But I hope this journey and all the info I've posted can be of help to future axe neophytes. That's the primary reason why I take lot of time do this kind of thread. I want it to be research resource for others.

 

[Canotrouge]

You see, that's what I meant about the Best made store, they don't care much about what the tool will be used for, they really only care of what it look like....

Anyway, I think your best bet s to contact a real black smith and ask hi/her to make you the axe you want in a mirror finish and be done with it. It will cost you a bit more, like 150 to 200 but you will have exactly what you want!!

Thank you so much for all the time and research you did on the subject, and taking the time to share it with us!!

Now what is the next thing to research and share.... I will be waiting for you Threads from now on!!

Cheers