Length considerations for a canoe axe: function and safety

[Rippy]

I assume the maker of Deep South Knives is referring to the one I have, which is from even deeper south . . . the home of the best blades: El Salvador.

Ya'll got that right Bubba.

 

[oldie moldy]

Well Glenn, I've tried to follow what just the heck it is that you want, starting all the way back to that thread about advice on fixed blade knives. There's been more twists and turns than a plate of spaghetti.

Sometimes it almost seems you're playing a peculiar form of random mental bumper cars. If all this has been a process to a conclusion that will actually result in a tool in you hands, I'm afraid I got lost along the line somewhere.

Probably most pivotal in any edged tool selection is: are you now willing to learn how to sharpen the thing? And keep it sharp? You do realize that such a position would be departure from your previously held stance?

Back in #35 you state "I think it's an accurate assessment that a hatchet meets my modest need." That's where a man in search of a tool will concentrate his attention. But you go on...don't like 'em, remind you of the cub scouts and so on..... Glenn, you need to figure out what it is you want: a tool? An Objet d' art or perhaps some accoutrement for an old guy's fantasy.
All these things are fine, but I believe I'd take the tool camping. And tools have real world requirements. And extract real world penalties on the foolish.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Canotrouge]

Oldie moldy, Objet d'art, I'm sure he can figure out, but accoutrement... I don't know? We don't even use that a lot any more

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

OM, some of your Freudian posts are so stultified as to be outré.

To me, thinking and hobbies are evolving and dynamic processes, not static things . What I thought and did yesterday does not inexorably compel what I think or do tomorrow. I'm opinionated about many things, but have an open mind that likes to learn and changes often.

Yes, I want to change somewhat my canoe camping routines by incorporating some new bushcraft skills, mostly relating to wood processing. To that end, I have decided I need at least one fixed blade knife. So I researched them, sought opinions and bought three--only two of which I've disclosed and reviewed in my other thread. The real choice is en route.

I'm also open to the idea of an axe, which I'm exploring in this thread. I like to hear what people experienced with practice or theory have to say. I understand the need to sharpen, and have no idea why you think I don't.

In general, here's my approach to many things in life: There are no perfect choices but there are lots of reasonable ones, so make a reasonable choice within your budget that has the most aesthetic appeal.

That's how I have and will continue to choose apples, canoes, cars, knives, women, and (maybe) an axe. There are many hundreds of knives and axes that can meet my modest functional needs. So the final choice cannot be made on functional grounds. Therefore, after zeroing in on general length, head weight and head shape targets, I'll buy the axe that aesthetically appeals to me most within my budget. If I go all outré about axes, as I've done with canoes and kayaks, maybe I'll end up with 15 of them--mostly gathering dust and old mold. I'm not sure yet what aesthetic appeal means to me regarding axes. It could be historical appeal, tactile appeal or visual appeal.

My rear wheel drive Magic Bus and 1995 Mustang convertible may not be able to get up my 600 foot driveway until March. At that time, I'll go to Home Depot and actually lift and heft some axes to explore the tactile aesthetics of different lengths and weights. Visually, I like shiny double bit axes, like the one my grandfather locked away when I was 12. We haven't discussed those yet.

 

[Canotrouge]

 

[oldie moldy]

Really? Freudian, Glenn? This from the guy who with his shiny new knife, was going to "F**k you Up!" and lately is waving his sarissa about? C'mon buddy, keep it in your pants.
But it's your life and you can sure live it anyway that you like. I just hope you're never caught in a house fire; the way you dither and fiddle about, your pall bearers would have a light load, probably just a dust pan full of ashes.

In the end, after all the dust settles, we've only talked about a knife and an axe. It wasn't a second Normandy Invasion despite the volume of discussion expended. Just about anything you pick will probably work for you, certainly better than nothing.

People who are good with words often think they can talk their way through life and in most cases it's true. But, edged tools are deaf and you can't explain away or change the subject when that sharp edge is swing into you shin. Don't try to B.S. an axe.

Best Wishes, Rob


p.s. I'll send you Care Packages while you're in the hospital!

 

[scoutergriz]

I've been following this thread for a while with some interest, and having worked in the lumber and forestry industries, and teaching axemanship for twenty years, I think a lot of you are missing the point- It's not the axe so much as the technique; I've used everything from a 12" 1 1/4lb hatchet up to a 48" double bit monster with a 7lb head.
Very simply, the shorter the handle, the closer you get to the ground. spread your legs, bend or crouch a bit, or take a knee if necessary.
My preferred tripping axe is an old Mastercraft one from the 60's (when they were made by Sandvic) 2 1/4lb and 26" handle. At one time I had 11 axes and sold 'em all but this one- It fits well down the side of my pack, feels good in the hand, and takes a stupid sharp edge. For general bush use, it's perfect- I can drop a 6" tree, limb it (always stand on the opposite side and go bottom to top) and it'll split anything up to 12-14".
What ever you buy- take a good look at the sheath; it should be of shoe leather and both riveted and stitched with a sturdy strap. I prefer a full sheath for those times you screw up and pound something with the butt with the sheath on- you won't cut the strap like on a "cap" sheath

 

[Guest]

Glenn, I believe this offers both a batoning blade and an axe head, so it may solve both your knife and axe search.

http://www.wengerna.com/giant-knife-16999

 

[Holmes375]

I....Very simply, the shorter the handle, the closer you get to the ground. spread your legs, bend or crouch a bit, or take a knee if necessary....

Nice succinct summation. And good comments re: the sheath.

This thread, and its related counterparts, have been interesting reads. I've stayed out as I don't consider myself a skilled axeman. Where I roam I don't have the need to clear or chop large wood for fire and camp building.

I am a long time user of one of those "useless" hatchets. Not for everyone, to be sure and perhaps not for most. But I like 'em and find no issues in terms of safety as compared to an ax or efficacy when compared to knives.

I generally have small 3-6" wood about for fire building. Easily split with my hatchet from a kneeing position using the set & tap method. I could surely knife baton such wood but my hatchet has a stronger cutting edge and is more easily maintained than my knife. And I'd need to carry a longer knife if I were going to regularly use it to process firewood.

My little GB Wildlife tool will easily turn out a fuzz stick with the best of them, Makes short work of extra tent & tarp pegs when the wind is fussin' about. I can quickly scrape myself a nice food prep table upon a large fallen log with the hatchet. Clean and smooth surface for makin' my meals.

I often build a wind screen for my small fire ring using pine uprights with fir boughs for the slats. The hatchet enjoys this task when there is not a good supply of appropriate stones. It handle both the cutting and the hammering chores.

If I need to take wood from a deadfall for my fire I use 10" Silky saw. Makes short work of the task and delivers hatchet-ready pieces.

Hatchets are dangerous only when used as something other than a hatchet. Don't try to make a chopping ax of it. And if you're not comfortable working from a kneeling position the hatchet is probably not the tool of choice for you. Much is made of the one-handed swing and its lack of accuracy. If you need to set a hatchet bit with authority try using both hands but with the off hand making only light contact under the power hand. Its not to provide support, just contact. You may find this technique noticeably improves the accuracy of your strike.

I use a hatchet not because its the best tool but because I like using them. I could also do most of my work with a small ax and would do so if I enjoyed using them more than the hatchet. I'd simply modify my techniques a bit. I'd baton my wood with a large bushcraft knife if I enjoyed doing that more than using a hatchet.

I use a hatchet because I like using hatchets. Using my hatchet is part of what I look forward to when planning my trips.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'm withdrawing safety as a topic. I take seriously everyone's counsel about safety, but I consider it a matter of learned technique not something inherent to the tool. Whatever the size or length, I'm confident I can learn safe techniques.

As to length, I'm zeroing in on what I see called 3/4 axes or boys axes: about 24"-28".

As to shape, I like the Hudson Bay shape or other shapes that let you get your hand behind the center of the blade when you choke up.

As to weight, I was in the hardware store today buying traction sand for my glacier . . . er, driveway . . . and looked at some axes. I wouldn't want a head weight more than 2.25 lbs. for canoe camping uses.

As to aesthetic historical and canoe-related appeal, I like this 27" Ebay used Collins Legitimus (?) axe in a sort of Hudson Bay head shape, which is of unlisted weight and has no mask. It's about 30 miles from me in Canton/Collinsville, which is the site of the original Collins factory and also Connecticut's biggest canoe store. All sorts of aesthetic connections for me.

As to aesthetic visual and patriotic appeal, I like this 2.0 lb. head, 26" Best Made Hudson Bay axe, which is actually MADE IN THE USA by Council Tool.

Other current candidates are the axes in this picture, which I posted earlier.

The least expensive wood-handled candidate of all the axes pictured in this post is the 2.0 lb. head, 26" Husqvarna Forest Axe, which is currently made in Sweden by Hultafors. Before 2012 it was made by Wetterlings and called the Husqvarna Multi-Purpose Axe. Here it is in between the Best Made Hudson Bay Axe and the 2.31 lb., 23.5" Fiskars X15, which is also a candidate and the least expensive axe of all.

The Fiskars also now comes in a 28" all black version called the 28 Chopping Axe, which has the same 2.31 lb. head as the X15 and which is the second least expensive of the axes in this post.

According to the Rocky Mountain Bushcraft blog, the Fiskars X15 "blew away" all the Swedish and German axes in their suite of performance tests, and the Fiskars 28 Chopping Axe out-chopped the X15. The two Fiskars axes are little heavier than my 2.25 lb. cutoff for head weight, and I'm not sure about their balance with those hollow composite handles. There is probably little doubt they are the best splitters of all the candidate axes in this post.

 

[Philtrum]

I reinstate safety as a topic, and the most important one. Yes, applying the right tool for the job is certainly important, but it can be seen as the first element of safety.

It's nice to know I'm not the only person who prefers a hatchet for backcountry use. A longer handle is better for heavier work, but considering that most, if not all, of the work is lighter - such as Holmes has described - then a shorter handle is better suited and thus the safer bet. And easier to carry, besides.

That said, I don't bring an axe of any kind on my Boundary Waters trips. I simply don't need one. I can baton-split wood if I'm cooking over a fire, but I rarely do that. And the few times I make a warming fire, all I need is a single general-purpose knife.

Glenn's pics just above make me wonder how much of the commentary in this thread (OK, I'm talking mostly about Glenn's) is testosterone-fueled, i.e., motivated by the macho sexiness of manly cutting tools/weapons.

 

[memaquay]

Glenn, don't get carried away here. My buddy has the Fiskars. It's good, but Keeee-rist on a cookie, it's ugly. It looks like one of those ugly Mora knives. And I'll tell you what, those Gransfors and Wetterlings are fugly too. They look like they've been at the bottom of a swamp for a century. Now that Best Made Hudson's Bay axe is a beauty. It will take your average looking fellow and make him look like a stylish woodsman. Picture this, a fellow standing on a rock over a river, beavertail paddle in one hand, Woods canvas pack slung over his back, and that Best Made axe glinting in the sun! What a picture! Oh, wait, I think I saw a picture like that of Robin....

Oh well, since you like that Mora stuff, you should probably stay in ugly territory and buy a Fiskars. I sure like that Best Made though!

 

[Odyssey]

I bought my axe and hatchet without any research. I went. I saw. I bought. And I got lucky. Glenn is doing some good researching here we can all learn from. We may not all wind up with the same conclusions, or the same blades. That's okay.
We'll all choose what we find best suited for our hands, trip and budget, or maybe no axe at all-that's okay too. With such a variety of blades and individual tripping tastes, I'm sure no-one will walk away from this thread unhappy.

 

[Canotrouge]

I wouldn't buy the best made, since you could just go a head and buy a council tool for cheeper.. And since Glenn like reviews, I never read anything to positive regarding Council tool consistency... And I prefer the look of the Wetterlings or Gransfors over the other ones!!

 

[HOOP]

One attribute of axes that does not get enough discussion sometimes is the shape, thickness, and material of the handle. An uncomfortable handle can ruin an otherwise very nice axe head.

Handle shape is infinitely variable, and comfort and confidence using an axe is personal preference depending on the individual's grip (hand size, shape of hands, hand and wrist strength, etc). You will have to find what is right for you. The following is my preference:

I find many of the less expensive average hardware store axe handles to be too fat and too round for my liking. Laterally I like a narrow handle. Top to bottom I like a deeper handle, which compensates the strength for the narrowness of the handle laterally. The forces exerted on the handle are mostly the top to bottom kind, and so I like a deeper handle top to bottom.

I find the more expensive axes “sometimes” put more custom shape into their handles, especially the first 6 inches just under the haft where you need a firm grip for one handed work.

The narrow axe handle just under the haft also will allow the handle to remain unscathed by the wood when splitting. If the handle is too thick here relative to the axe head, the wood can be damaged. Wide handles often have to be wrapped or armored here for that reason.

My GB axes, for my hands, are by far the most comfortable in my axe collection. They are relatively very narrow under the haft and I can get a really good grip there for one handed work. I am small, my hands are small, so its personal preference. I do alot of splitting with my GB forest axes and they have never been scraped or chipped under the haft. Many of the Scandinavian style axes including the GB’s and Wetterlings that I own, have that extended prominent piece of the axe head that I call "ears" for lack of knowing what the proper name is. This "ear" piece seems to extend the wedging effect down the handle more, protecting the handle from chipping during splitting. Many North American style axes seem to omit those "ears", and the axe handle often suffers. In the photos posted above, you can see the differences. I am sold on the "ears" being an excellent attribute, and they also extend the contact on the handle for the haft area, and perhaps reduce wear and tear from shear forces.

My GB Scandi forest axe has a narrower handle under the blade than does my Wetterlings scandi forest axe. So if you can handle some of these axes before buying, it’s a good idea. Unfortunately you will likely never see several diverse brands in one “bricks and mortar store”, so its just one of those things that you may have to order blind, shop around and travel, or just deal with it when you receive mail order.

If you are good with woodworking tools, you might be able to re-shape a store-bought axe handle to fit your hands better. I have never modified a hickory handle, and I don’t have the tools (e.g. bench mount belt sander), or the manual skills and tools to finely shape a handle. Plastic or fibergalss handles I am guessing are not re-shape-able.

For wooden handles, the material matters. The universal best wood from my research is "American Hickory". All my axes are hickory handles, (except for my plastic one). There are several species of hickory, I don't know which one is best? The Swedes import AH to make their axe handles. I don't know what European wood they used in the old days? Maybe its no longer available?

My first 28 inch axe that I bought was from LL Bean, not overly expensive, and it had a beautiful narrow hickory handle, one of the finest I own. I still own and use it, and its never needed to be wrapped. I bought the same brand and model of axe many years later, and it had rounded fatter handle that was way too fat under the haft and had to be wrapped because it started chipping - it was fatter than the blade! You could see that that LL Bean had lost their axe culture of fine quality control and knowledge of axe use, and were cheaping out on the newer handles.

A finer shaped handle of premier grade hickory will take more time and skill to make, and cost much more money, and that is something you pay extra for. The handle form and function determines many aspects of axe performance. I am willing to pay that extra money for a fine handle. For the plastic handle types, in theory they should be able to mold those into a variety of shapes and sizes. The only plastic handled axe I own (Fiskars)is a heavy splitting axe for the home woodpile (its alright for what its designed for, no complaints), so I cannot comment on any plastic handle model for cruising with in the bush.

As for being accused of “dithering” doing research, don’t pay attention to that Glenn. I have been known to research a piece of gear for years before buying. It’s a learning and growing experience in and of itself, so take your time. Changing your mind as a result of research is, of course, expected if one is learning. I have changed my mind over the years on my axe preferences, as I had stated above. Same with knives.

 

[Rippy]

Glenn's pics just above make me wonder how much of the commentary in this thread (OK, I'm talking mostly about Glenn's) is testosterone-fueled, i.e., motivated by the macho sexiness of manly cutting tools/weapons.

That would be a good thing right. I mean, God gave me testicles for a reason. I'm not ashamed to be a man.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

As an authoritative educational tangent for axe neophytes reading this thread now or in the future who want to learn more about axe basics, here is a video distributed by the U.S. Forest Service on many aspects axes: history, handles, head patterns, hanging a new handle, sharpening, usage techniques and safety. The instructor, a Montana cowboy who loves traditional American axes, uses no electricity when working on an axe. He also makes believe he's unfamiliar with the name Gransfors Bruks. (Mike McCrea might be interested in the etymology of "can't get the hang of it.")

The 3/4 length axes and small heads sure look puny after watching some of those felling and hewing axes. I like the double bit cruiser axe with the 28" handle. I also like the Jersey head with those friction bevels.

I feel like taking down one of my tulip trees (Liriodendron tulipifera) and building something. Ah . . . the feeling will pass.

 

[oldie moldy]

Well Glenn, Hoop's absolutely right, I ought not criticize what ever selection method you're using. This epiphany came to me in the wee small hours, in answer to my question "Why am I getting so exasperated with Glenn?"

And then the forty watt light bulb came on: This is exactly the reason I don't go shopping with my wife. I'm not wired to understand let alone appreciate the process involved. Oh, I go.... but only as a beast of burden, during the actual shopping I find somewhere quite and read till summoned.

In retrospect, I can see how I got caught up in the thread, I've got an interest in axes and am all too willing to expound whether I know what I'm talking about or not.
And too, for all that my memory is getting faulty, I can remember with absolute clarity the wounds I've witnessed. How surprisingly yellow our fat is and that white glistening thing is actually a living bone.
I really, really, hate to see someone hurt where it might have been avoided so easily.

In all this internet chatting there is a basic rule: you don't have to stay, click out of it if you're getting cranky. I didn't abide by the rule and I apologize.

Good luck with what ever you decide on.

Rob

 

[scoutergriz]

Glenn as a little off topic- the double bit axes we used were made by a local blacksmith (long gone to the great forge in the sky) and he used to make one edge in a splitting pattern, and the other in a chopping pattern- The company I worked for did a lot of non mechanized logging for farmers (enlarging fields, cutting treelines, etc) So we did a lot of hand felling and horse hauling (chain oil, or gas doesn't go well with food crops). With the right grinds you could fell the tree, limb it and trim the top with one tool,But you had to really be aware of where that second edge was- Lots of new guys cut their hand on the exposed bit!

 

[Guest]

As an authoritative educational tangent for axe neophytes reading this thread now or in the future who want to learn more about axe basics, here is a video distributed by the U.S. Forest Service.
(Mike McCrea might be interested in the etymology of "can't get the hang of it.")

And the etymology of “pole axed”.

I’ve watched that video twice now as informative entertainment, once before I replaced the handle on the Michigan double bit and again more recently. It got me curious enough to go out to the tool shed and look at the axes I have. And rarely use.

They are (mostly) hardware store axes. The one I use most in stamped as an “FTC Special” from a long-gone old timey hardware store. It has a heavy Dayton blade with a 33” handle. There is also a 31” Michigan that is lighter, and a 27” Coopertool Plumb (handle) with a small Dayton head. The little axe desperately needs a new handle and they all need to be sharpened. Dammit I was afraid this would happen once my axe curiosity was stirred.

What I use most often, every week in winter, is a modern splitting maul with a 34”handle. I’m not limbing, felling or notching. I’m splitting wood on a chopping block. I have good muscle memory for swinging that maul and can dependably hit a visible split in a log. I’ve been doing that since I was an adolescent, although my sons now fill the role I played in childhood; they occasionally split some, but mostly Daddy don’t pick up no wood – I just stand there with the maul and they position the log on the chopping block, stand clear, load the wheelbarrow with split wood and fill the woodbox. Dang, I could split wood all day when I don’t have to bend over or pick anything up.

On the rare occasions when I turn to an axe it takes me a while to get comfortable. My muscle memory is attuned to the splitting maul, and perhaps using something with a similar length handle helps.

I don’t swing an axe enough to have become axe-bidextrous. Which is probably why I had to dig the little 27” axe from the depths of the woodshed; I hadn’t touched it in years.

A question for those of you who use different length and weight axes – does the transition between different axes feel awkward, at least at first?

I guess I’ll know soon enough. That little Coopertool* needs a new handle and considerable attention to the axe head. And, of course, it has an odd little eye hatchet-like eye, 2” x 5/8”.

*Well, “Coopertool Plumb” is what is stamped on the badly installed handle. I have no recollection of purchasing that little axe or from whence it came, but I do know that the mis-stroke damage on the neck isn’t mine. Time to play with another mystery axe.