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J Winters "Kite" build

That's pretty ingenious, being able to turn the seat around. Suggest you build in some way to adjust the trim while carrying, unless it's close enough that you can use a painter.

What you're doing is a reason I'm not. If I were, I'd need household help just to keep me fed and washed.
 
Gavia said:
That's pretty ingenious, being able to turn the seat around. Suggest you build in some way to adjust the trim while carrying, unless it's close enough that you can use a painter.

What you're doing is a reason I'm not. If I were, I'd need household help just to keep me fed and washed.
Click to expand...

I have to give credit where it is due...my SIL is a very sharp guy, a master mechanic, trained by Volvo. His trouble shooting skills are insane, and he looks at things very differently than I do. It was all him.

As far as the carrying trim, that seat frame can adjust fore and aft whether is is facing forward or backward. As long as that 3M stuff holds, I think I've got it licked.
BTW, I wetted out another pair of "socks" tonight, they help reinforce the center thwart to gunnel joints.
I'm still hopeful that I can bring the Kite with me on a weekend camping trip. MDB says for me to just wait, but I have been waiting, since that day back in January...Maybe I'll just cut out a pice of plywood for a temporary seat!!
 
Considering you are itching to get it out and wet, cut a similiar shape plywood seat to your proposed wing seat and give the velcro idea a trail run, if of course the seat cleats are done enough that you don't need to remove the velcro post-trip. Would give you an opportunity to shake down the design.
 
Mihun09 said:
Considering you are itching to get it out and wet, cut a similiar shape plywood seat to your proposed wing seat and give the velcro idea a trail run, if of course the seat cleats are done enough that you don't need to remove the velcro post-trip. Would give you an opportunity to shake down the design.
Click to expand...

Why that's the plan exactly!! I printed a full size pattern yesterday, that's part of the reason why I modeled the seat frame during yesterday's lunch break.
it won't be too comfortable, but a plywood seat would be plenty good enough to shake out any flaws in my logic...
 
Sorry for tardy reply;

Thwarts: Yeah, we've found two layers are a minimum for thwarts, because despite the obvious engineering function, 250 lb guys insist on kneeling/sitting on the things, which breaks the things in the middle. SG's attachment is elegent, but i production we need a flange like Hornbeck's or use Plexus as smoothly as possible due to time constraints.

Rails: The home build on the foam carbon rails was wonderful to see. The foam profile chosen didn't optimize strength or lamination ease but worked just fine. Shaping can be done with tablesaw and routers. Colden, Swift, Placid all infuse very heavy braided tube, probably for professional reasons, i.e. fear of failure. Home builders might wet bag to insure 100% foam/fabric bond. Anyway, cool to see it done well as a one off.

That seat profile is remarkably close to one in Colden's shop. The trick is to make them quickly with adequate finish quality, but imagine, a zero maintenance seat! The turn around, yoke paddles on the back were used in a wooden Mad River seat at least a decade ago. The issue is height of the pads. From a low, reversed, seat the paddler's head is stuck up under the boat. That said, maybe just more innovation.

Anyway, beautiful job almost done! I am concerned about the Blues reference to women dressing in red after a murder, and how that might translate to solo canoes. Who knows?
 
Charlie,

Thanks for the insight and input...I didn't know that Mad did a reversible seat/portage yoke combo, see what a sheltered life I lead!!
As for a buried head, I can work in 3 planes, you know...The yoke section can and likely will be raised higher than the seat platform. Might even make for a bit of a back rest, if I shape it right.
WRT gunnels, I considered a carbon fiber sleeving, with the sleeving tucked into the notch for the hull. I wasn't confident that I could get all the wrinkles out of the CF at assembly, and might end up with a mess during wet out. Sure would have been a simpler solution though.
I did end up with double CF sleeving on all the thwarts, but I never did test the flexural rigidity, too much in a hurry, as always. I knew my free time would evaporate, next week we close on rental unit numbers 26 and 27...

Now for the bad news. I was cutting a very temporary seat platform from 1/2 ply last night and I found that I cannot fit it into the hull!! That beautiful creased tumblehome makes for a gunnel width about 4 inches narrower than the required seat frame width...I did not see that coming!!
So, again, I need to tweak the seat frame to allow for insertion and subsequent reversals....somehow.

Anyway, I can't have the boat finished for tomorrow's paddling rodeo at Lake Harris, but I may bring it anyway, in it's glorious, unfinished and matte condition. I'm dyin' to paddle this thing!!
 
It should still fit... your cleats are back of the widest part of the boat, slide it in on an angle then back to the cleats level. The taper messes things up, I imagine the back is skinnier than the front which would mean it won't fit the cleats right when reversed for portaging?...
 
Mihun09 said:
It should still fit... your cleats are back of the widest part of the boat, slide it in on an angle then back to the cleats level. The taper messes things up, I imagine the back is skinnier than the front which would mean it won't fit the cleats right when reversed for portaging?...
Click to expand...

Just thinking here (a dangerous activity for sure) ... the seat/yoke frame might have to be rectangular. In that case, the forward cleat might have to be built out toward the middle of the boat, like a shelf. Given everything else that's gone into this boat, it shouldn't be too hard to do.
 
I did wedge in a very temporary plywood seat last night...I had to force the hull wider to fit it in.
No amount of juggling, positioning, sliding would allow that seat platform to pass the gunnels. Even by burying the one edge into the bilge at the centerline of the hull (fore to aft) the seat platform still will not clear the gunnel.
The very feature that I was so impressed with (that creased tumblehome) has now thrown me for a loop.
Not to worry, there is a solution to all problems, it just may take some more time to discover the optimum solution. in the mean time, I'll paddle an ugly, unfinished hull with a plywood seat...
 
Here's the answer: Install two rails, one across each end of the cleats. They'd provide a mount for the seat/yoke, which would not have to span the entire distance. It should be a piece of cake to flip the thing without the tumblehome getting in the way.
 
Mihun09 said:
Humbly apologizes for not being a gentlemen, 'tis only a gentle woman. ;)
Click to expand...

You know, I knew that...sometimes it's hard for me to keep track of everyone. Sorry 'bout that!!

Now, down to business...

I had the Kite out this weekend, even though it isn't quite finished.
One of the group we met up with had several hardwood framed, caned seats, I tried one for fit and VOILA!! it fit great!! Sure was better than sitting on a piece of 1/2" plywood. I couldn't get that plywood to fit inside the hull unless it was cut really sloppy...somehow, the caned seat frame slipped right in.

Paddling impressions:
1. Speed is OK, plenty good enough for the intended use. I won't win any races in it, but then again, I probably don't need to!
2. Seaworthiness is outstanding. I intentionally breached in 18" rollers, the hull just doesn't care. When quartering oncoming waves, the flare just sprays the waves aside, not a drop in the boat.
3. Stern hook, that annoying and sometimes dangerous habit of a hull to twist into rollers when taking wind (and waves) over a rear quarter, is nearly non existent. Certainly not a problem.
4. Maneuverability is outstanding as well. The bow responds sharply to all commands.
5. Tracking is surprisingly good, considering the ease of turning.
6. Comfort gets high marks too. It is a very calm hull, despite the rather narrow beam.

I did paddle a small piece of Class II in it, it effortlessly swept into eddies and was very easy to control. Plenty of buoyancy up front made for a fun ride.
I haven't yet paddled it with a full load of gear in it, but my stuff usually weighs no more than 30 lbs...I can't imagine it will handle much differently.

So, except for duplicating that hardwood framed caned seat in CF and foam, and the final clear coat, this boat is done.

I am extremely pleased with the performance, satisfied with the weight, and love the aesthetics. For me, it's gonna be a keeper!!

On the car next to MDB's Swift

DSC_1793.JPG


On the water with a 220 lb paddler (not me, I'm a welterweight!)

DSC_1801.JPG


Wating for the next paddler

DSC_1822.JPG
 
daveo4 said:
Mike,
What was the final weight?
Dave
Click to expand...

Last time I weighed it, without that donated hardwood framed, caned seat, it was right at 30 lbs even. So with my yet to come CF over foam seat frame/portage yoke, I'll be at 31 lbs, I think.
If I were to build this hull again, I would definitely cut my strips 5/32" thick. And maybe try an alternate technique on the gunnels...still use the CF over foam, but maybe use sleeving over a slotted foam form. The hull would tuck into the slot and hold the CF tight against the foam.

Maybe.

Those that saw the boat in person and paddled it are as anxious as I am to see it all shiny with a clear coat on it.
I maintain that it will be difficult to look directly at it when finished!
 
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