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Carbon Copy Kite
- Thread starter stripperguy
- Start date
Partal is just a brand name for PVA, at least that's my understanding.
The wood core, is a lot of extra time and work. CF Nokomis has a fairly flat bottom, but it's plenty stiff now.
Love the Experimentation going on !
I have yet to install flotation chambers, but CF Nokomis, at 16'4'', is up to 30# with the wood insert glassed.
Trim weight is the real key to keeping these hulls light. I'm still debating this, in my mind.
My compliments as to the clean work area ! My Wife has even offered to come down and clean mine ! She's TOO Good !
Jim
The wood core, is a lot of extra time and work. CF Nokomis has a fairly flat bottom, but it's plenty stiff now.
Love the Experimentation going on !
I have yet to install flotation chambers, but CF Nokomis, at 16'4'', is up to 30# with the wood insert glassed.
Trim weight is the real key to keeping these hulls light. I'm still debating this, in my mind.
My compliments as to the clean work area ! My Wife has even offered to come down and clean mine ! She's TOO Good !
Jim
Jim,
If you look closely at my photos, you'll notice I never show a particular perspective...that's where my temporary work table and all the mess resides!
The Kite has a fairly rounded bottom, so that adds some stiffness. I suppose I could even leave the hull as is, it would oil can constantly, but as long as it didn't cause any low cycle fatigue, it might be OK. But I prefer the suspenders, belt and rope approach.
Thanks, Alan. Even though this hull is a bit shorter at 14'6", that would be too high a price to pay. Probably have to be carbon and glass over foam for all of the trim.
Dang Stripperguy, you don't waste any time. Looking good so far. For the stems, ever thought of molding one layer of fabric on the stripper stem, then attaching it with more layers onto the shell?
I use 4 mm Lantor Coremat for my ribs in 3 inch strips with two layers of kevlar over top. It is much lower profile than commercial ribs or cores. So far they have worked great. No oil canning, but still plenty fexible when sliding over or coming to abrupt halts on rocks. That is on a layup of 2 layer 6 oz s glass and 1 layer 9 oz stitched kevlar. If I didn't have extra around I probably would have used 2 mm on my last project instead. The coremat does soak up a lot of resin but that ends up making it part of the laminate, which I don't worry about delaminating like a foam core rib. Just some food for thought.
I use 4 mm Lantor Coremat for my ribs in 3 inch strips with two layers of kevlar over top. It is much lower profile than commercial ribs or cores. So far they have worked great. No oil canning, but still plenty fexible when sliding over or coming to abrupt halts on rocks. That is on a layup of 2 layer 6 oz s glass and 1 layer 9 oz stitched kevlar. If I didn't have extra around I probably would have used 2 mm on my last project instead. The coremat does soak up a lot of resin but that ends up making it part of the laminate, which I don't worry about delaminating like a foam core rib. Just some food for thought.
No, I did not think of molding some stem pieces first...I wish I did, that's an eggsalad idea!
And don't be fooled by my manipulation of the space-time continuum, from the time I did that little test patch until the shell was off the plug was 10 days on the calendar. That took about 6 total hours, I now have another 2 or 3 hours invested. Maybe another 6 hours before I'm ready to flip it and start the trim.
I'll research the Coremat, 2 mm might be enough when wrapped with some more carbon.
East coast thing? No. just my warped sense of humor. I often twist sayings and mix metaphors to see if anyone is paying attention.
When my daughter was playing soccer, many of the parents would shout encouragement, particularly when our team was driving towards the opposing goal.
"Finish, girls, finish" was the cry. And immediately I would stand and yell " Swedish, girls, Swedish". Few were amused.
Better yet, when my daughter was playing softball, there were all kinds of sayings based on field positions and runners on. "The ducks are on the pond" was my favorite foolish chant.
I took it upon myself to create a new chant...whenever there was a lone runner on second, I would yell "The cheese is ripe!" You can imagine the strange looks I got. But consistency counts. Sure enough, by the end of the season, if there was a lone runner on second, the crowd (I am not kidding) would cheer "The cheese is ripe".
Now, back to the build.
Another forum, another member, asked if I had thought to do the glass first, then release the shell, and lastly add the carbon from the inside.
That would have given me a better shot at fully replicating the crease/sheer line. Maybe...
That would have also gave you twice the sanding. I was thinking about the crease, you could heat the epoxy up past its glass transition temperature and make some minor tweaks. I'd talk to the manufacturer first though to see how hot you can go before permanent negative effects.
Oil Canning ! Did Someone mention Oil Canning ?
My first Kevlar, I used the same 9 oz Stitched Kevlar, that Muskrat refers to.
With a couple of layers of 6 oz E-glass.
I used Pink Owens Corning, 1/4" as a foam core. Oh It is ugly, but at the time, seemed stiff enough. Alas, a few trips down a lazy river, and I swear my hull was breathing. Yep ! the foam core delaminated . It paddles OK, but I'm going to dry dock it, until I can pull the foam core out.
I was happy with the weight, but thinking either more layers of S-glass, maybe Carbon, to replace the foam. A strip insert would be OK, I'd just have to find the the original forms. That,s not going to happen.
So, use GOOD foam ! Don't trust the Pink Panther !
Second Kevlar. This was a pain also. Different weave Kevlar. 8 oz I believe. Plastic between the ends. Then I trimmed them with an angle grinder. Worked pretty good.
To finish I used Polyester felt. It resembles Kevlar felt, but is sandable. Rugged enough so far !
Jim
My first Kevlar, I used the same 9 oz Stitched Kevlar, that Muskrat refers to.
With a couple of layers of 6 oz E-glass.
I used Pink Owens Corning, 1/4" as a foam core. Oh It is ugly, but at the time, seemed stiff enough. Alas, a few trips down a lazy river, and I swear my hull was breathing. Yep ! the foam core delaminated . It paddles OK, but I'm going to dry dock it, until I can pull the foam core out.
I was happy with the weight, but thinking either more layers of S-glass, maybe Carbon, to replace the foam. A strip insert would be OK, I'd just have to find the the original forms. That,s not going to happen.
So, use GOOD foam ! Don't trust the Pink Panther !
Second Kevlar. This was a pain also. Different weave Kevlar. 8 oz I believe. Plastic between the ends. Then I trimmed them with an angle grinder. Worked pretty good.
To finish I used Polyester felt. It resembles Kevlar felt, but is sandable. Rugged enough so far !
Jim
Well, here's a little more progress. I sanded those added foam chunks to match the hull profile, and rounded the ends. I cut up some more stem strips and wetted them out. Another hour or so. Now, I wait. Soon, I'll add a couple layers of glass to the stems, then I'm ready for some covering coats.
Here's the one end...I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I've lost track of which end is bow and which is the stern. I think it will be obvious once I flip it around.
Anyway, this is the end that I had initially closed in with a layer of carbon, and later added the foam. You can't see the foam under the carbon, but trust me, it's there.
This is the other end, that has foam only. You can see the foam peeking out from under the soon to be wet out carbon.
And here's how it looks after wetting out the 2 layers of bias cut carbon. I did have to wet out each layer separately.
I'll also add some Dynel to the stems, for abrasion resistance. That Dynel sucks up the epoxy like an old sweatshirt and always looks ugly as can be. No big deal, I do plan to paint this hull on the outside, so none of the ugly will show through.
Here's the one end...I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I've lost track of which end is bow and which is the stern. I think it will be obvious once I flip it around.
Anyway, this is the end that I had initially closed in with a layer of carbon, and later added the foam. You can't see the foam under the carbon, but trust me, it's there.
This is the other end, that has foam only. You can see the foam peeking out from under the soon to be wet out carbon.
And here's how it looks after wetting out the 2 layers of bias cut carbon. I did have to wet out each layer separately.
I'll also add some Dynel to the stems, for abrasion resistance. That Dynel sucks up the epoxy like an old sweatshirt and always looks ugly as can be. No big deal, I do plan to paint this hull on the outside, so none of the ugly will show through.
Oh,
I did look at the Coremat...not sure it's what I might want. The resin soak up could be more weight than I'm will to tolerate. I'm looking at Divinylcell, maybe the 3 or 4 lb/cu ft stuff. A partial layer of that, in the football region, covered with a layer or 2 of carbon.
I did look at the Coremat...not sure it's what I might want. The resin soak up could be more weight than I'm will to tolerate. I'm looking at Divinylcell, maybe the 3 or 4 lb/cu ft stuff. A partial layer of that, in the football region, covered with a layer or 2 of carbon.
Wow SG! I am looking forward to the rest when you return!
Jason
Jason
Jason,
I've got another week or so before I head off on a family vacation.
Trying to fit as much work on this hull as possible while still tending to our rental properties and prepping our own house to sell. 11 hours and counting.
Yesterday, I added 2 layers of glass to the stems. Tonight, I rolled on a fill coat of epoxy, 30 oz in total...about 2 lbs. Maybe my goal of 25 lbs is unrealistic!!
Sorry, no photos, not much to see anyway.
Hahahahaha, I agree! I hope the new house will have a heated shop!
Well, the carbon copy Kite is on the cradle!
I weighed it after the second fill coat of epoxy...19.5 lbs and counting.
It'll lose a little when I trim the excess sheer, then start gaining again as the trim is added.
And now we can inspect those crazy foam stems. Remember, one end, the bow, has carbon on both sides of the foam. The other end, stern, has no carbon on the inside of the foam, yet. The stern will have the foam shaped to a pleasant fillet, then a layer of carbon goes on. I don't think I'll have any bulkheads, definitely no decks. Probably 3 thwarts and a pair of seat supports, all carbon fiber over foam, and a full carbon fiber tractor seat. I am also forced into carbon/glass over foam gunnels by my self imposed weight goals. Fight club gunnels, I suppose.
Enough BS, you guys only look at the photo anyway...
And here is a link to all of the photos.
I weighed it after the second fill coat of epoxy...19.5 lbs and counting.
It'll lose a little when I trim the excess sheer, then start gaining again as the trim is added.
And now we can inspect those crazy foam stems. Remember, one end, the bow, has carbon on both sides of the foam. The other end, stern, has no carbon on the inside of the foam, yet. The stern will have the foam shaped to a pleasant fillet, then a layer of carbon goes on. I don't think I'll have any bulkheads, definitely no decks. Probably 3 thwarts and a pair of seat supports, all carbon fiber over foam, and a full carbon fiber tractor seat. I am also forced into carbon/glass over foam gunnels by my self imposed weight goals. Fight club gunnels, I suppose.
Enough BS, you guys only look at the photo anyway...
And here is a link to all of the photos.
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I'm in awe of your work and guts to try this new build. I know for sure that I wouldn't have the nerve to take on working with the carbon and other tasks you've shared with us. Thanks so much for letting us non-builders know that it's possible for a person with skills to make such a wonderful craft.
That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.
snapper
PS - Can't wait to see it on the water.
That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.
snapper
PS - Can't wait to see it on the water.
I don't build in flotation. I probably should put in some small tanks for when I can't be bothered with air bags, but then they would get in the way of the bags when I need them. It's a quandry. If I have to self rescue in deep water I want more than the tanks could provide. In shallow water I don't think I need any floation since the boat can't sink anyway, or at least not deep enough to cause a problem.
It's interesting in drift boats they don't use any flotation with the theory that they'd rather the boat sink and stick to the bottom so there isn't a moving hazard that a floating person could hit or get pinned by.
SG, the canoe keeps coming along nicely. It's probably too late already, but if you don't want that foam to stay in the stems you should be able to dissolve it with acetone or other solvent.
It's interesting in drift boats they don't use any flotation with the theory that they'd rather the boat sink and stick to the bottom so there isn't a moving hazard that a floating person could hit or get pinned by.
SG, the canoe keeps coming along nicely. It's probably too late already, but if you don't want that foam to stay in the stems you should be able to dissolve it with acetone or other solvent.
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I don't like flotation tank either, I get all new boats built w/o them. I put flotation bag when not on trips and tie in gear when on trips!
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