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Happy Birthday, Marlene Dietrich (1901-1992)! 🔷😇🦵🏻
Thus build the Raven, evermore
- Thread starter jffdejongh
- Start date
Trust me, this build has got me thinking hard about it!
I believe you told me that before but I transposed the 9 inches and put the front of the seat 6" from the center of balance. I also put the seat down 3"from the top of the gunwales. This leaves about 10" under the seat for my size 11.5 feet.
I knew that I'd have a learning curve switching from a beamy tandem being paddle solo and a solo. I'm looking forward to the journey of getting used to a new canoe. I'm not sure I'll be doing any poling in this one, but we'll see.
I'm going to try moving the seat down and back by adding a 1" piece of wood that extends behind my seat brace about 6". This should let me fine tune the seat position.
I then have to make my carry thwart using Jim Dodd's method. I hope I didn't make my seat too wide (18") but that still gives me a few inches to fit the braces on each side.
Țhen I'm going to put in hull lacing like Alan Gage has done. The vinyl tube covered line inside the hull will allow for easy attachment points and will create mounting points the partial spray decks like Alan Gage has done.
I have gotten so many great ideas from people on this forum!!!
I hope to use this season to decide if this hull design is the one to make a composite hull from or do I use some sort of prospector style hull modified for solo paddling. I've seen so many composite hulls built, I'm interested in the challenge.
Another trick from Alan is a bag of water, placed in the canoe to adjust trim.
A good idea.
6" aft of center has worked great on my solos. Get a pic from the side, with you in the seat, as the canoe is in the water.
My seats are made to allow me to shuffle my weight, fore and aft a little.
A good idea.
6" aft of center has worked great on my solos. Get a pic from the side, with you in the seat, as the canoe is in the water.
My seats are made to allow me to shuffle my weight, fore and aft a little.
Good job on getting the raven done! I’ve been watching the build progress. I have a factory royalex raven so ran out to do some measurements for you. I raised the seat a bit to accommodate my size 13 feet. It now sits 3” from top of gunnel at the front and 2.5” at the back. Stock seat is 10” deep and the centre of the seat sits 12” aft of centre of balance.
I find the position good for tripping and empty paddling (trimming load when loaded and depending on the conditions). It will seem like a twitchy boat at first but you won’t have any issues poling once you get a feel for it. Really stable and secure craft, albeit a bit slow on the flats.
I would like it it in strip version so am a bit envious! I guess I have next winter to make my own!
I find the position good for tripping and empty paddling (trimming load when loaded and depending on the conditions). It will seem like a twitchy boat at first but you won’t have any issues poling once you get a feel for it. Really stable and secure craft, albeit a bit slow on the flats.
I would like it it in strip version so am a bit envious! I guess I have next winter to make my own!
I'm a little confused ! I get that way a lot !
Could you measure total length, then measure from the bow to the Front edge of the seat ?
Center of Balance, could be different, than how I measure my seat locations.
Thanks Skinny !
Thanks Skinny!
Those dimensions make sense. Mem had his seat front 9" from the center of balance but he had mentioned that 6" might have been better. Six inches from center of balance is too far forward.
My feet are 11.5-12 so I'm making sure I have enough space. I may have made my Conk style seat with too much front curve.
Jim, I'll measure from the front of my canoe and post some pics.
I’ve gained at least 30 lb in the last year so having you call me skinny makes me laugh. I am going to have to change my handle.
I went out and measured it again so may as well pass these on. This particular raven with vinyl trim is 185” long measured from the tips of the end caps. The front of the seat is 99” back.
When I said the seat is 10” deep, I meant the seating surface front to back is 10”, not 10” up from the floor.
I went out and measured it again so may as well pass these on. This particular raven with vinyl trim is 185” long measured from the tips of the end caps. The front of the seat is 99” back.
When I said the seat is 10” deep, I meant the seating surface front to back is 10”, not 10” up from the floor.
What was the seating arrangement in your previous tandem you were soloing? Maybe it will just require an adjustment period.
My seats are almost always sliders and if not I adjust trim either with packs or a dry bag partially filled with water on day trips. I shoot for a trim position that allows me to easily control either the bow or stern. If the seat is too far forward the bow feels like it bites in and once it starts going off course it really wants to dig in and keep going that way. Bow correction strokes will be difficult but moving the stern is easier (too easy).
If the seat is too far back the bow is light and is easily pushed around in the breeze and the boat will be slower. The bow is easy to move but it's harder to reach that far forward with the paddle. The stern tracks harder and is more difficult to move. It's easier to paddle with the seat too far back than too far forward.
When the seat position is (what I feel to be) correct it feels like the canoe it pivoting on a point directly below my seat and I can control the bow or stern with equal ease and the canoe seems to track neutral. It doesn't track as hard as if the seat is farther back but the bow doesn't bite in either. I can reach forward with the paddle to draw/pry the bow or I can reach back a little to draw/pry the stern or I can draw/pry in the center and move the whole boat sideways with no turning motion.
This seat position varies depending on paddling conditions. In a beam wind I'll adjust the seat position to keep the boat neutral (if the wind is blowing the bow then move the seat ahead and if it's blowing the stern move it back.
Often to get a rough idea of seat position at the beginning of a paddle I'll scull sideways or just sit in a beam wind and let it blow me sideways. I don't expect the canoe to turn. If it does I'll adjust trim until it's neutral and then make final adjustments under way.
I can see where in a wide solo (possibly the Raven) a seat position farther back might be preferable just to aid in reaching over the gunwales.
Alan
Thanks Moose (more appropriate? 
) and Alan.
Moose, I'm going to measure my hull from the front as well to see how my position compares to yours.
Alan, your description of how to find the trim makes a lot of sense. In the short paddle I did last week, I felt that the stern was not sitting down well and skidding down wind. It also gives me some good reasons to play in my new canoe.
) and Alan. Moose, I'm going to measure my hull from the front as well to see how my position compares to yours.
Alan, your description of how to find the trim makes a lot of sense. In the short paddle I did last week, I felt that the stern was not sitting down well and skidding down wind. It also gives me some good reasons to play in my new canoe.
I just measured my raven, 184.3 inches and the front of the seat is at 100 inches. My seat is 12 inches deep. I did notice an improvement in handling when I slide my butt to the very back of the seat.
Part of my thought that I'm too far forward is due to the fact that the OT Appalachian is paddle in reverse from the bow. I added a slider type thing to make my position the same as the front thwart. (Alan, I'll measure it tomorrow)
Part of my thought that I'm too far forward is due to the fact that the OT Appalachian is paddle in reverse from the bow. I added a slider type thing to make my position the same as the front thwart. (Alan, I'll measure it tomorrow)
Thanks ! That cleared it up for me. Your seats are positioned in the same Ball Park as mine.
Making a deeper seat has it's advantages.! You can slide your weight, fore and aft a bit, without need for a true Slider seat, to adjust trim. !
When I built my first solo, the Osprey, it was actually the first solo canoe I had ever been in. It seemed like at the time, dedicated solo canoes were more of an American thing, and most Canadians just flipped the old prospector around and called it a day. I know the Osprey felt extremely small to me the first few times, but once I became used to it, I couldn't be convinced to go back to the big old tandems.
When I built the Raven, I couldn't believe the room in it, and the solid feeling it had in big waves and rapids. It has quite a lot of rocker too, so it might feel more difficult to control than what you were used too. A couple of differences you might notice.....the stern on my osprey tended to dig in, making it very easy to go in a straight line. At the same time, if I had a wind behind me at a slight angle, I sometimes had to fight to keep it going straight, as the stern would want to follow the wind. I didn't have those problems with the Raven, because the stern and the bow were loose, so corrections in quartering winds were very easy. It is a tripping canoe, and feels at home with a big load in it. Mine was usually stern heavy, I would put my heaviest barrel behind me.
My Osprey is sitting on top of my truck right now, covered in snow. I'm getting used to it again, but missing the Raven, it is a boat that can grow on you.
When I built the Raven, I couldn't believe the room in it, and the solid feeling it had in big waves and rapids. It has quite a lot of rocker too, so it might feel more difficult to control than what you were used too. A couple of differences you might notice.....the stern on my osprey tended to dig in, making it very easy to go in a straight line. At the same time, if I had a wind behind me at a slight angle, I sometimes had to fight to keep it going straight, as the stern would want to follow the wind. I didn't have those problems with the Raven, because the stern and the bow were loose, so corrections in quartering winds were very easy. It is a tripping canoe, and feels at home with a big load in it. Mine was usually stern heavy, I would put my heaviest barrel behind me.
My Osprey is sitting on top of my truck right now, covered in snow. I'm getting used to it again, but missing the Raven, it is a boat that can grow on you.
