Thus build the Raven, evermore

[jffdejongh]

Stripperguy, I've looked at your kite a number of times. It's awesome, and that pedestal is cool. I might try that another time. This time I've decided to make a conk style seat hung from the gunwales. I'm also interested in your floatation in the bow and stern. How do you think the weight compares of the flotation tanks to a hardwood deck?

 

[jffdejongh]

I steamed the wood for the front of the seat, cleaned up 'glassed portions at the shear and started fitting the gunwales.

 

[stripperguy]

Stripperguy, I've looked at your kite a number of times. It's awesome, and that pedestal is cool. I might try that another time. This time I've decided to make a conk style seat hung from the gunwales. I'm also interested in your floatation in the bow and stern. How do you think the weight compares of the flotation tanks to a hardwood deck?

My decks and bulkheads are usually 1/8" thick cedar, with single layers of 4 oz glass on each side...the cedar is 22 lb/ft^3, resin used maybe a few ounces, cloth weight is miniscule. Oak, maple, hickory are all around 45 lb/ft^3, so about double the density of the cedar. If the hardwood decks are 1/4" thick, and without a bulkhead would weigh nearly the same as 1/8" thick glassed deck and bulkhead. So a hardwood deck, open underneath could be about the same weight as a stripped, sealed deck/bulkhead combo.
As much as I focus on weight, there are other variables in the equation.

Like many of the other builders here, I really like the idea of a sealed bulkhead/deck combo.
You gain much strength by adding the deck/bulkhead.
You add flotation (a stripper will float anyway, but with sealed chambers with float higher.
You can hide a multitude of sins inside those chambers. (it's pretty hard to sand all the way to the stems)

BTW, I run a glass strip on the inside of the bulkhead/hull joint, as well as the outside joint. A buddy of mine had a bow paddler kick a bulkhead loose once, I like to be sure my bulkheads are secure. And I always glass both sides of my decks and bulkheads...I regularly use my decks to step on when loading, launching, scrambling over beaver dams, etc.

I think I ran a build thread on the red Kite, here's a link to a bunch of build pics, you might find something interesting there.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sm9MshRPBxb9C6qS7

 

[jffdejongh]

Thanks for the link to your images stripperguy! Those images tell me a great story of how you built and installed the bulkheads!

I had chance to make templates for my bulkheads today after fiddling with the position of the spruce gunwales.



I had some scrap cedar from my aborted canvas restoration that I'm putting to good use on the bulkheads. I'll be glassing the backside flat then I'll cut them to shape before finally cutting the top and sides apart so I should get nice grain match.

 

[jffdejongh]

While working on the raven today I noticed that the top of the shear is canted outward considerably. For the time being I've added long pipe clamps to the gunwales to twist them inward.

I may be able to reduce this canting when I square up the inwales. They are currently thicker at the bottom than at the top. These are re-purposed and were made for an 18ft OT guide w/c.

 

[Roybrew]

That is looking real nice! I like how you stripped the bottom. Great work.

 

[jffdejongh]

Thanks to stripperguy, I was able to make and install the bulkheads. I have not done the final glassing because I'm running low on epoxy and didn't want to get them 1/2 wet out and run out.


I used a fillet of thickened epoxy inside and out of the more vertical piece.

Before I glued the top of the bulkhead on I filled the holes for the painter lines. I read through a number of threads to see other people's methods and decided to stay with my copper pipe style. I really like the copper against cedar. The inner stem made aligning the holes pretty easy although smearing the epoxy looks ugly. I'm glad I'm covering them in the bulkhead.

 

[jffdejongh]

Since I have to wait for more epoxy to arrive from Raka I decided to tackle dry fitting the gunwales. I'm screwing them together this time and I've run into a bit of a dilemma. Even after sanding the hull smooth and sanding the inside surfaces of the gunwales there are a few places where the outwales don't mate tightly.




My original plan was to just varnish in the side edges of the gunwales before installing them. I've also considered in thicken
ed epoxy. I want to be able to remove the gunwales (by unscrewing them). Has anyone used caulk that seals well but can be removed. I'm certainly not using 3M 5200! That stuff never comes off.

Thoughts? I'm also trying to decide on the ends of the outwales. I'm leaning toward tapering them some and ending them at the stems.

 

[RickR]

You're making great progress! I think tapering your outwales and rounding them in to the outer stem would look nice. I believe there are marine bedding compounds available that might work to fill small gaps between the hull and gunwales.

 

[alsg]

You're making great progress! I think tapering your outwales and rounding them in to the outer stem would look nice. I believe there are marine bedding compounds available that might work to fill small gaps between the hull and gunwales.

I used marine bedding compound, Dolfinite brand, on my gunnels. Kind of like the consistency of peanut butter out of the can and it makes the gunnels slippery as a greased pig (or wet eel) when you go to clamp them to the hull, so be aware of that. It eventually skins over but remains flexible. I had to repair a split gunnel about a year ago and I could tell there was no water infiltration after 5 years of usage, so I think it works pretty darn well.

 

[jffdejongh]

Alsg, I've heard of dolfinite, but haven't used it. I'll check it out, thanks.

 

[memaquay]

If I have gaps, I just don't worry about them. I seal my gunwales on all sides with epoxy before I screw them on.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Here is a video on sealing with Penetrating epoxy, that might interest you , and others on thinning and sealing with Total Boat epoxy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8wLbyCk7EQ

 

[jffdejongh]

Alsg, I Looked in the box of w/c restoration supplies and I have a can of dolfinite. I need to check my basement, maybe I have a completed canoe that I forgot about?

Mem, thanks for the thoughts about not bothering with a bedding compound. That will save time.

Here is a video on sealing with Penetrating epoxy, that might interest you , and others on thinning and sealing with Total Boat epoxy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8wLbyCk7EQ

Thanks for the link. Have you ever used regular raka epoxy and denatured alcohol to thin it? I'm asking because I obviously don't have (and don't want to take the time) to buy penetrating epoxy.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I've never tried thinning RAKA .

I don't think it's imperative to use "Penetrating" epoxy.

I would suggest a couple of coats, or even add a little filler.

 

[memaquay]

No need to thin, just use a foam roller and roll it on then tip off the bubbles.

 

[jffdejongh]

Ice out was two weeks early so I had to get my butt in gear! Although the raven isn't totally finished, I put her in the water this afternoon.
she's so much smaller than my OT Appalachian but I'm starting to get used to her.

I may need to drop the seat and possibly move it back.

 

[dogbrain]

I talked to the guys at RAKA a few years ago about thinning their epoxy and they said to use denatured alcohol. I never tried it though.

Good job on the canoe. If it seems twitchy I think you'll get used to it, especially when you put some weight in it.

Mark

 

[Jim Dodd]

How far Aft of center, is the front edge of your seat ?

I know how hard it is, waiting to put that first canoe in the water !

I had a little open water , The January I put my first in the water.

It was every bit as Sweet, as if it had been July !

Looks great !

Enjoy !

Next ?????

 

[memaquay]

Think I had my seat about 3 to four inches down and 9 inches from centre. Although it may feel smaller than your previous tandem, the Raven is one of the biggest dedicated solo's out there. I switched back to an osprey last year after I wore my Raven out, and I am finding it to be very small, although at the end of a two hour paddle the other day, I had pretty much become re-acquainted with it.