Suggestions on a Solo Canoe?

[charlie wilson]

OP is at the upper shoulder of the bell curve on paddler size, and if soloing a Prospector, needs have a good J stroke. For streams and rivers he'd probably appreciate symmetrical rocker, like the big P. Colden's WildFire and NorthStar's Phoenix are among the few dedicated solos that fill that bill. The OP seems beyond the need for differential rocker. Rocker is a drafting convenience and varies significantly between builders. Wenonah's inch would be nil for Colden or Swift, and Swift's varies too, Yost's 2" pretty close to Winter's 1"? So it goes!

 

[latremorej]

One of the things you have probably already considered is what kind of paddling/tripping you do. And then ask yourself what kind of tripping you want to do.
The weight of the solo canoe is very important; many folks make it the most imortant consideration during the purchasing process. I believe that the lighter the canoe weighs, the more it will get used.

When I went from using an 80lb Grumman to a 56lb MR, the amount of days I spent paddling increased by 4x. Then when I purchased a 30lb solo, the amount of days I spent paddling increased by 4x again. Now I have to admit that over the past 33 years of being married, family dynamics played a big role in the amount of time I spent paddling during the various seasons of life. The ease of loading the canoe onto a car and portaging a canoe was also an equal factor. Many lakes and ponds that I previously deemed to hard to get to, I now consider no big deal to portage to them.

Single trip portages have been my SOP, thanks to light weight canoes. However, my aging and aching back has me thinking that my single trip portaging days may be numbered.

Yeah, the married thing definitely plays a role... the way I see it, in the beginning, I was broke and could only afford the grumman, and could only afford to get out ocassionaly, as time progresses,,, promotions, kids grow up, I can afford the 60lb Royalex and can also afford more time out. I can't wait till the kids are off and the bills are under control so I can get that 30 pounder and have all sorts of time on my hands!

 

[Steve in Idaho]

If you're going to run whitewater in your composite canoe, just be sure to outfit it with flotation first. The fabric composites don't recover well from wrapping like rx can.

 

[idahokris]

I recommend a Mad River Courier. Might be someone in your area that would let one go for a few thousand....

 

[charlie wilson]

As I age I'm a big fan of composite because it's lighter and, due to hull stiffness and skin condition, faster. I maintain a comparative dimensional chart listing of available solo canoes, having length, width and rocker listed clarifies thoughts a little; will gladly forward the electronic file if contacted.

Bell's Merlin II seems gone, but it's immediate and 1/2" narrower predecessor, Nomad, is available from Colden; it's more recent redesign, a half inch wider, is the Swift Keewaydin 15.

 

[PA Tripper]

No Title

Here is my Solo set up that is unique. It is a Wenonah SoloPlus but without the normal 3 seat arrangement. Ideal for the solo paddler that want a canoe that is a little bigger than the typical solo. Comfortable, stable, fairly fast due to 16'6" length and good up to class 2 water.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Here is my Solo set up that is unique. It is a Wenonah SoloPlus but without the normal 3 seat arrangement. Ideal for the solo paddler that want a canoe that is a little bigger than the typical solo. Comfortable, stable, fairly fast due to 16'6" length and good up to class 2 water.

Its nice and not unique. Maybe you arent familiar with some of our Eastern designs but Dave Curtis makes a rugged Kevlar layup that is either solo or tandem ( for small paddlers) and its a favorite of dog hauling trippers. The Eaglet. Its been around for a long time. The Curtis Companion was a predecessor. Some people take the seats out of small tandems like the Mattawa and Starfire and put in a solo arrangement. Millbrook makes some too I believe but I'm not familiar with that line.

That 16'6 " length needs a powerful paddler. Someone not so powerful has a lot of skin friction to overcome..( so smaller paddlers paddle faster in smaller boats) Wenonahs can do the Allagash at over 1500 cfs ( I remember your water levels). The outfitter always says we will wreck our Kevlar Odyssey but so far we have done the Allagash and the Buffalo with it; not two rivers you think of Kevlar on. However long boats and eddy turns require advance planning..

as an aside if you kneel ( and PA Paddler I don't think you do judging from the seat drop; there is little space underneath for feet. I could be wrong) a flat seat is horridly uncomfy.. If the back edge is about 1 inch higher than the front you get way better support. With that footbar in use though that might not be essential but I find I get more power if I have to push my tush uphill..Just some ideas.

 

[PA Tripper]

I do kneel about 1/3 of the time in rapids or rough conditions. The fit is tight and I am considering raising the seat about 3/4". I hope this will make this more comfortable for both sitting and kneeling.
Not a huge fan of the foot brace and I am thinking of removing it.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I do kneel about 1/3 of the time in rapids or rough conditions. The fit is tight and I am considering raising the seat about 3/4". I hope this will make this more comfortable for both sitting and kneeling.
Not a huge fan of the foot brace and I am thinking of removing it.

O golly if you sit without a footbrace your back will be talking to you quite shortly!

 

[Philtrum]

My first canoe was a Solo Plus. I got it partly because I had trouble controlling the Mad River Independence I test-paddled it against (I eventually got an Indy and was happy with it). The other reason was that I wanted a boat that would go both solo and tandem, thinking my son would want to paddle with me. Some time after I posted a glowing review on paddling.net, I realized that the Solo Plus doesn't do anything well. With 300 pounds of adult it's doggy. As a solo, it moves well enough, though not very fast. It doesn't turn well, nor does it track particularly well.
I used that boat for my first solo overnight canoe lake trip and found that when loaded it wasn't just "not very fast" - it was doggy due to the amount of volume in the ends. Of course, I took the bow and stern seats out to accommodate gear. I sold it to buy a Prism and was much happier with that model, even with its drawbacks.

 

[charlie wilson]

Combi Canoes work fine for dealers but not for individuals. The dealer sells them to compact couples as tandems, big guys as solos. Everyone's happy; however. If the combi fits a couple of smaller folk tandem, neither one of them will have the weight/reach/power to solo the device. And, if it fits one big guy solo it will not accommodate two of him tandem. Worse, combis usually arrive with three seats, suggesting to those challenged by basic addition that it must accommodate three paddlers.

Combis were popular in the 90's. Wenonah's Solo plus is very close to Bell's Fusion, both Bob Brown designs. It was a fine day when we discontinued that hull.

 

[Philtrum]

Charlie, what do you think of the three-seat version of the Mad River Malecite? It's the same length as the Solo Plus but clearly a tandem. I've never paddled one solo, but I can imagine it being a good tripping boat, though a bit much without a load.

 

[charlie wilson]

I love short class, 16'6" down river racers. They are compact cruisers that maneuver; tandem cruisers. From my chair, remembering I had a shop that carried Mad Rivers, was a principal at Bell and consult for Swift, the Jim Henry designed Malecite was one of the best of it's day as the David Yost Bell NorthStar was of it's and Yost's Swift's Keewaydin 16/17 seem today. Note, as the racing class has faded the CC hulls have taken on a little extra girth as have we all. They are too wide at center beam, 34-35", for a ~ center seated soloist to paddle stack hands for a vertical paddle shaft. Angling the shaft across that wide beam increases yaw away from paddleside. The resultant more forceful J needed to haul the bow back on course compromises forward speed. The NStar and Kee both have tumblehome, which improves reach to the water. The Winter's Kippiwa and Mattawa, are a little wider and flared which further compromises the paddler's ability to reach water with a vertical paddleshaft.

Worse, it takes a huge person to sink any ~ 16 ft tandem's footprint in the water to resist beam wind and seas, and the bow is so far forward that the solo paddler has a hard time drawing it to either side for turning maneuvers. They need be paddled at a standing heel, Canadian style, to reduce wetted surface and waterline length, and that stance has it's own issues for soloists. That said, here's a Henri Georgi image of Cindy May paddling Canadian style. Cindy, Sue Plankis and Becky Mason seem to be the current triumvirate of Canadian Style as earlier personified by Omer Stringer in the middle of the last century.

 

[yellowcanoe]

And thats the way to properly control a tandem solo..And few people do it till they meet Becky Mason. I have a small bench I put under my butt to alleviate the pressure of sitting on ones heels.

There is only one sort of paddle to properly use on these boats. The long bladed Ottertail which allows you to reach under the boat and minimize J with a deep C sort of stroke. It goes through the pivot point, which is right under you.

Nice pix of your better half CEW!

 

[Philtrum]

No Title

I disagree about there being only one type of paddle for these boats. But my experience certainly bears out Charlie's comments.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I disagree about there being only one type of paddle for these boats. But my experience certainly bears out Charlie's comments.

What would you use? I've seen students in my classes try all sorts of paddles but because the optimum in these boats is to have the paddle pass through the pivot point and not to the side of it ( to avoid unwanted yaw which is the chief hurdle) the long bladed ottertail works best.. And all have had better success with it..

Mine is short shafted. 59 inches overall. 26 inch shaft ( see how close Cindy is to the water?) and 33 inch long blade. Because the mass of the boat is so great a wide paddle is very hard on the paddler. So narrower blades work better, especially with that long length.

I should have explained why the narrow blade earlier. My reasoning is based on the physics I have learned from Charlie, Becky, and mostly Rolf Kraiker who uses this style exclusively solo.

 

[Guest]

I'm 6ft 1in and 210lbs...

At your height/weight I’m going to put in a good word for those “combi” canoes. Not to be paddled as a three seater tandem/solo canoe, but as a dedicated solo.

I didn’t catch your preferred paddling style, gear load or type of venue, but opening the choices to a combi canoe or a soloizable tandem presents a lot of possible choices, both new and used.

The MR Malecite is a nice big-boy solo and those aren’t exactly unicorns on Craigslist. I have a soloized kevlar Malecite and it has proven seaworthy in some fugly wind and wave.

PA Tripper’s single seat specialized composite Solo Plus is a boat I lust after (well, if I could find one used and cheap in need of repair).

The Wenonah Wilderness might be in the mix. as well as others.

I have a hard time laying out the cash for a new canoe, especially knowing that I’m likely to take it apart and put it back together to my known preferences.

A friend your size, after test paddling a dozen or so current solo canoes, opted for a composite Wilderness and ordered it from Wenonah outfitted to his specifications, including seat placement and depth, foot brace and thwart installation locations and etc.

Dropping that kind of coin on a new canoe I’d rather have everything factory installed where I want it and not be faced with drilling new holes.

 

[Philtrum]

What would you use? I've seen students in my classes try all sorts of paddles but because the optimum in these boats is to have the paddle pass through the pivot point and not to the side of it ( to avoid unwanted yaw which is the chief hurdle) the long bladed ottertail works best.. And all have had better success with it..

Mine is short shafted. 59 inches overall. 26 inch shaft ( see how close Cindy is to the water?) and 33 inch long blade. Because the mass of the boat is so great a wide paddle is very hard on the paddler. So narrower blades work better, especially with that long length.

I should have explained why the narrow blade earlier. My reasoning is based on the physics I have learned from Charlie, Becky, and mostly Rolf Kraiker who uses this style exclusively solo.

You said, "There is only one sort of paddle to properly use on these boats." In the picture I posted I'm using a 54" Grey Owl Freestyle paddle (shaft length about 32"). I have no trouble getting the blade under the center of the boat. Using my Turtle Works ottertail I sometimes have trouble handling it in out-of-the-water recoveries. I find the extra foot of blade is a nuisance. The long, narrow blade may be the better for that type of paddling, but it isn't the only one that can be used properly.

 

[charlie wilson]

Kim didn't learn her physics or bio-mechanics from me. Wider blades, extending farther from the shaft, will reach farther under the boat, but that sort of stroke, with top hand extending well abeam/outside the shaft hand will result in a C stroke under the boat. That C stroke is bio-mechanically mostly all arms and a poor way to power a boat. I've had a few animal tails; the Nashwak had it's blade excised to function for my pre teen sons. My cherry Kettlewell is screwed to the wall, it is most useful as an ornament. Beyond the long blades scraping bottom too often, animal tail grips tend to be too small to fill the hand and those long skinny blades are death when recovered in-water. They add a significant percent to wetted surface, which slows the boat through the water. Any in-water recovery, excepting Draws, Prys and Cross Forwards which are all very short strokes, slow cadence. Keeping cadence up is the key to getting to camp before sundown. Boat mass? The canoe Cindy is in weighs 35 lbs; she weighs 125, so the hull is just 22 percent of the total package.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I've had many teachers. Not all espouse the same thing. I do think Philtrum that by using a wide blade you are losing control.. The narrower blade allows for finer control and quick paddle angle changes. Wide blades are for slow cadence paddling and single placements. Narrow paddles allow for quick little subtle paddle placement changes along the hull.

I learned Lakewater II and became a certified instructor in 2001 .. That is until the Canadian Recreational Canoe Association became Paddle Canada and threw out the certs of the 11 Americans that had been certified.

For you skeptics. I challenge you. Take one wide blade and a narrow blade out with you. Set up one buoy. Put the bow of the tandem against the buoy. Make the boat rotate once around that buoy, bow always touching the buoy with no wander away from it.

Report how the two blades handle. And no because the shaft is so short on a paddle properly sized for this sort of paddling, there is no stress on the arms at all. I marvel how fast folks can handle tandems solo with a good animal tail with short shaft, even on more complicated maneuvers that we do not even teach in the States like sculling pries and draws keeping the boat at an angle to the dock..

Its a different style of paddling and one that many know very little of.. Its traditional from Ontario camps and worth learning if for nothing other than safety should you find yourself soloing a tandem canoe.
The downside is the sail area. I dont buy the skin surface friction idea as the standard Prospector is shrunk down to a fraction of its standard wetted area with most of the boat out of the water...the sail.. Even in a moderate wind..bigger boats are a drag literally. My husband did fine in the Raven, a big solo on Chesuncook yesterday.. But when the 15 mph wind came up.. he literally paddled till exhausted.. meanwhile me in my toyish Nomad was half a mile ahead.

But then again I am a kayaker too.. Heretic.