Solo expedition build

[Holmes375]

I bevel my inners before stripping. Make a center line down the stem and use a partial strip that contacts a few forms to see the needed angle. I clamp the strip to the forms with spring clamps and small plywood jigs. Pull the strip in to see the angle, let it fly free free for room to shape the stem. The spring clamps make it easy to move the strip up and down as I go.

I usually work with an apron plane and spoke shave and this method makes the stem bevels easier to work.

 

[memaquay]

Alan, since you've built a couple of J. Winter's designs, I'm sure you must have read most of Martin Step's stuff on www.greenval.com He has quite a comprehensive article on stems, just in case you want to add to your build time, it's a good read. http://www.greenval.com/FAQstems.html#Two-Piece

 

[Jim Dodd]

I agree with Wysedav.

I believe he is referring to when you glass the inside, you will need to glass around the sharp edge of the inside stem.
If you bevel or taper the part of the inside stem, that is sitting on you stem form now, it would be much easier to glass later.
I'm sure you experienced this with your Sabots.

I also like the idea of routing a shelf for the end of your strip to lay on, and staple to !

Thanks again for sharing your build ! Sorry if we sound like it's OUR build ! You know how we are !

Keep bringing it on !

Jim

 

[Iskweo]

The shelf idea does sound like a winner at that.

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan, since you've built a couple of J. Winter's designs, I'm sure you must have read most of Martin Step's stuff on www.greenval.com He has quite a comprehensive article on stems, just in case you want to add to your build time, it's a good read. http://www.greenval.com/FAQstems.html#Two-Piece

Oh yes, I've read through it more than a couple times. That and anything else I can find, which is tough for single stems.

A bit slow at work so I took off early planning to spend many hours stripping today. I've decided to leave my stem conundrum for later, when the stripping is getting closer and I can better see how they'll want to lay in. None of that should affect the stem shape above the water line.

First thing was to draw lines on the stems to give me something to sand to. A compass set at 3/8" and following the taper of the stems did the job nicely.


20150226_001 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Then I started sanding away with some 40 grit sandpaper stuck on a stick until I was down to the line and had the correct bevel.


20150226_004 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

I did this on both sides of the each stem about 3 strips up. I'll keep beveling just ahead of the strips all the way up. That's quite a bit of material to remove with a block of sandpaper so I started using the random orbital to get close and then touched it up by hand. Much quicker and less dusty.

I laid the shear strips, which is one of my favorite parts of the build, and then attacked that darned knuckle. My first build, a Kite, had a similar knuckle and I vaguely remembered how it was supposed to go. That one ran the entire length of the hull where this one doesn't so will need to blend back in. I think this way might be a little more difficult. The first side went pretty slow but by the time I got done I thought I had it figured out so while the glue was drying I went over and did the other side. It went quite fast and I was pleased with myself when I went in for supper to let the glue dry so I could come back out later and do some real stripping. That didn't last long, however.

When I pulled clamps and staples so I could start laying the easy strips I found I didn't go far enough with my "overhang" on the ends! So I had to add little extension pieces and that was pretty much the end of the night since it will be too late by the time the glue sets up. At least I should be done with the hard part so tomorrow should be easy.

Some pictures of the knuckles, which are stripped kinda goofy.


20150226_008 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

The strips need to go at least the thickness of a strip past the forms:


20150226_011 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

The next strip, which will be laid normally, will have a bevel cut into the lower edge so that it will fit snugly into those overhanging strips. Then the overhanging strips can be planed back flush, leaving you with a fair curve. Or at least that's the theory, we'll see....

A little trick I learned from Stripperguy to keep the unsupported strips in line.


20150226_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Worked great!

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

Hi Alan
Here is what you need for those bevels.
A Japanese saw rasp.

Lookin GOOD !

 

[stripperguy]

A little trick I learned from Stripperguy to keep the unsupported strips in line.


20150226_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Worked great!

Alan

Alan,

Glad I could help!
You know, you still have time to hop in the car and drive up here for some of the best back country powder skiing in years!
I even have an extra set of skis and skins that you can borrow.
I'll be waiting, I'm sure you want to gey away from the tedium of stripping.

 

[Alan Gage]

You know, you still have time to hop in the car and drive up here for some of the best back country powder skiing in years!
I even have an extra set of skis and skins that you can borrow.
I'll be waiting, I'm sure you want to gey away from the tedium of stripping.

Thank you for the most generous offer but, well, how do I say this nicely......heck NO!

Alan

 

[stripperguy]

Huh!!??
Is it the 7[SUP]o[/SUP] F high temperatures?
Or the thought of hurtling down through a steep forested mountain and 5 ft of powder?
It's just another phase of water, after all...

 

[memaquay]

I'm interested in the way you and stripperguy strip around that knuckle. I've never done it that way, I just continue with the bead and cove, and for some strange reason, it has always fit. Here's a shot of the Osprey


And the Raven


Did you guys figure that method out on your own, or did you read about it somewhere? Do you have to put a running bevel on the strip above the knuckle that contacts the strips below?

 

[Jim Dodd]

The plans I've seen start stripping at the sharp turn, with the bead and cove joint. Going up and down.
But the way Alan has started should be every bit as good, probably better.
I'd guess a rolling bevel should be fine.

Jim

 

[stripperguy]

When I purchased the Kite plans, they included a short instructional manual for strip building.
The method for starting at the "crease" was defined in that manual, and the stripping was actually pretty easy.
I helped a buddy of mine strip his Osprey, and it was a little more tricky, having the "crease" blend into the hull part way along. Carrying the crease all the way from stem to stern was a no brainer!
The only glitch that I discovered was that you need to strip beyond the crease line on the forms (Alan explains this in words and pictures) and it was difficult to control the strips when they were not in contact with the forms.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Makes sense to run the crease all the way to the ends, in that case.

I just looked at my copy of Steve Killings Bear Mountain Freedom Solo. It was the first strip design that I had seen with this sort of shoulder design.
Steve stops slightly before the last form, with the crease. I'm guessing so the strips would lay flat against the stems.
He advised to start stripping at the crease.
These plans were a little intimidating to me !

I'm Glad to see Alan tackle the shouldered tumblehome !

Lovin every minute of his build !

Jim

 

[Momentum]

Alan,
In your post #65, your close-up of the stem after quick shaping shows your cedar strip sailing past the stem. The stem on the other side will also sail pas the stem. Does this mean that you will have a triangular shaped gap that will need to be filled in after? Or are you planning to cut the strips flush with the stem, therefore making part of your stem an exterior stem?

Do you get me?

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan,
In your post #65, your close-up of the stem after quick shaping shows your cedar strip sailing past the stem. The stem on the other side will also sail pas the stem. Does this mean that you will have a triangular shaped gap that will need to be filled in after? Or are you planning to cut the strips flush with the stem, therefore making part of your stem an exterior stem?

Do you get me?

Yes, that's it exactly. I hope to avoid having to shape the stems by eye doing it this way. Sand back the strips until the edge of the stem is exposed and that should give me the designed profile, then just round it as desired.

I'm interested in the way you and stripperguy strip around that knuckle. I've never done it that way, I just continue with the bead and cove, and for some strange reason, it has always fit. Did you guys figure that method out on your own, or did you read about it somewhere? Do you have to put a running bevel on the strip above the knuckle that contacts the strips below?

Like Stripperguy said, when I got my Kite plans from Martin it included instructions on stripping the knuckle and this is how he suggested doing it. It seemed to work ok so I did it again here.

I'm just as interested to know how you get your strips meet around that corner. Do you soften the edge at all on your forms? I assume you have to cut down the width and taper the final strip(s) to fill in the knuckle area?

Here's a shot of mine this morning showing the first "normal" strip being installed after the knuckle. Later those edge strips that stick out will be planed down flush with the hull. A little plane cut a roughly 45 degree angle in that strip to mate up with the angled knuckle strips. You can get fairly sloppy as the joint on the inside of the hull will be covered with an epoxy fillet anyway to help the fiberglass make that tight bend. So I just cut the angle a little steep so there's good contact on the outside of the hull and a bit of a gap on the inside.


20150228_001 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Plugged away at the boat off and on today. Ran 3/16" until I reached the water line at the center of the hull and then switched to 1/4" strips. The first 1/4" strip follows the water line and I'll fill in the gap later with 3/16" strips.


20150228_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

I'm shaping the stems to mate with the strips as I go because all along I haven't known how I'm going to strip the boat or if at some point I might change the way I run the strips or mate them with the stem. So far so good.


20150228_004 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

It looks like I'll be leaving my stems proud of the first form and not sanding them down after all. Once I ran that strip along the water line it really flattened things out so the strips aren't hitting the stems at as much of an angle as I thought they might, which means the strips don't have a lot of twist. I can taper the stem to the center line and the strips have a lot of contact with the side of the stem so plenty of surface area for the glue. When I do the other side the strips should just about meet in the center, leaving a tiny bit of stem exposed.


20150228_010 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

This is what it looked like when I called it a night:


20150228_006 by Alan Gage, on Flickr


20150228_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

This shows those goofy knuckle strips, which have now been partially planed down:


20150228_008 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

The other side of the hull is stripped up to the water line. Tomorrow I think I'll start on that side to play catch-up and then decide how to proceed from there.

Alan

 

[wysedav]

Finally I understand what you're doing with the stems. Looking good. I'm glad I finished stripping mine, Id hate to get lapped again. It's asmall victory because I'm sure you'll finish this one long before I finish mine.

 

[memaquay]

Looks great, and....big!

 

[Jim Dodd]

Well planned and executed Alan !

Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

Had a good day working on the boat. Was happy to get past the stems. Decided I'd try the method of stripping the bottom where you do one side past the center line, cut a straight line down the center, and then fill in on the other side. Cutting that center line always seemed intimidating to me. Turned out it was very easy and I wish I'd started doing it this way 4 canoes ago! Before I'd always had to miter and fit each strip on both sides as I closed in the bottom, this way I only have to do that on one side. Big time saver.

Once again the laser came in handy. Seems I'm always finding uses for that thing.


20150301_009 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

I made a mark every few feet using the laser and then connected them with a straight edge. Used a jigsaw to cut next to the line and then cut to the line with a small plane and a sharp chisel. Wrapped a piece of sandpaper around a block of wood and hit it quick to smooth it out a little at the end. Couldn't have been easier, nothing to be intimidated by at all.


20150301_010 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

It went so quick I even had time to start filling in the other side. Shouldn't have a problem finishing that up tomorrow and then I'll start filling in the sides. Can't wait to see this one stripped and sanded!


20150301_012 by Alan Gage, on Flickr


20150301_013 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Certainly is a big difference in the profile of the strips below the 350 pound water line and the strips above.

Alan