Solo expedition build

[memaquay]

The inner and outer stems are steamed together at the same time, so it's a matter of fit. Plus, the two stems are completely laminated together, and I have lots of purchase for when I attach the brass stem band. In the latest build, you can see the outer stem planed down flush to the hull and the flaring out to cap the strips.


I'm not sure I can envision what you are describing wysedav. Do you have a pic?

 

[Hanz]

I'll be tuned into this build. Can't wait to see it take shape, I always enjoy build threads.

 

[wysedav]

I don't have any clear pictures but maybe I can describe it better. Strip the ends like normal, when finished stripping take a block plane and plane a flat. I plane until I get about 1/2" wide land that I can laminate the stem to. I imagine you do a similar operation for the brass stem band.

 

[memaquay]

So do you plane down to the internal stem on the hull bottom as well? Or just on top of the joined strips? That's the part I'm not getting, but I am easily confused

 

[stripperguy]

Except for the latest build (Kite), I have always built with neither internal nor external stems. For me, it's just too easy to run the strips past the stem forms on the 1st side, trim, and then strip beyond on the 2nd side, and trim again.
Strength has never been an issue, and the strips join in tight.



And viewed from the inside, epoxy fillet already in place



Lastly, here's a close up look at the stem, with the deck applied.
This is how I've done my stems for the last 25 years...



Most all of my hulls have very slender stems, but even a blunt nosed hull can be stripped without internal or external stems.

Oh, and before I go wash tonight's dinner dishes, let me say, Alan, nice work once again!!

 

[Holmes375]

So do you plane down to the internal stem on the hull bottom as well? Or just on top of the joined strips? That's the part I'm not getting, but I am easily confused

On builds I've done with inner/outer stems, the outer stem extends past the inner stem on the hull bottom by several inches. I do a very shallow stop cut at the keel where I want the end of the outer stem to lay and then plane a light flat along the hull narrower than my stem stack. Lay in the stem stack at the stop cut, align it up towards the top of the stern and trim the extra at the shear. My stem stack is straight when attached to the boat and planed diagonal as I fair it to the hull.

 

[wysedav]

Oh, what I do is gradually transition from 5/8 to nothing. It just fades into the hull, at he end by the hull bottom the land is so small it's only in the strips

 

[Jim Dodd]

I'm with Stripperguy ! I see no advantage to stems. They take a lot of extra time and energy, with no gain.
I feel the same about Sabots. A lot of pain and no gain !

Sorry if it seems, I'm stepping on toes, that's not my intent !
I'm just calling it how I see it.

Jim

 

[memaquay]

Ah yes, well the Papal Bull concerning the treatise on the beautification of the Saintliness of Stems seems to have not been written yet, although there are many different sects theorizing as to which proclamation will be accepted as the Truth.
I for one, look forward to what Brother Alan, of the Monks of the Fast Build, will demonstrate with his heretical ways! After seeing his Dutch Wooden Shoe approach of previous builds (certainly a Protestant aberration!), I greatly anticipate some new fangled approach that will completely obliterate our past understandings on the subject.

In other words, Alan, I'm thinking you've got something new in mind, that we'll probably find out about before the ed of the week, if past practice holds true!

 

[Alan Gage]

Holy smokes! With so many different ways to do the same thing I don't feel so bad about being confused anymore! I'm happy this conversation is taking place though and that pictures are being shown for demonstration. It's cleared up some things I've always found confusing about the process of attaching stems and it's always fun to see how different people do the same thing.

I'm used to building stemless with a sabot/shoe so that's what I'm comfortable with. I wanted to try stems to see if I was missing something that would make the build go smoother with a better looking final product. I do like the aesthetics of a tapered stem but it's too soon for me to tell my thoughts on building this way, I'll find out as I go along.

Depending on what I build next I'd like to try stemless without a shoe. Parts of the shoe are a hassle but it also seems like it simplifies the stripping process by eliminating the worst of the strip torture where they twist so much at the bow and stern towards the keel line.

Alan

 

[wysedav]

I agree that there is no huge reason for stems. But I like how they highlight the profile of the bow and stern. They also clean up my less that stellar woodwork at the ends.

 

[Alan Gage]

Well so far working with the stems has been easier than I had feared. Steaming, bending, and clamping was no big deal and tonight I cut the taper, which I had every confidence in my ability to butcher.

They started out a little over 1.5" wide and after the glue had set I ran them on edge through the jointer to give me a smooth edge. No doubt a hand plane, belt sander, or orbital sander would have worked too but I had a jointer so that's what I went with. Now that I had a smooth edge and consistent width I could use a compass to mark a center line right down the middle. From this I measured 3/8" in each direction which gave me two lines 3/4" apart, which would be the width for about half the length of the stem before it started to taper out to 1.5"


20150225_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Then I picked a point a little above the water line, which was about halfway around the bend, and decided that would be a good place to start the taper. I marked that spot and then connected those marks with the corner of the stem that would be at the shear. I used a flexible yardstick as a straight edge. It has that shape permanently now. I marked the line with a pencil.


20150225_004 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Then I clamped the stem to the bench and spent a couple peaceful minutes with my hand plane peeling off beautiful curls of cedar before I lost patience and slapped a 40 grit disc to my orbital sander connected to a vacuum and hogged off all the material down to the line within a few minutes. I touched up the edge with a block of sandpaper and then a few more light skims through the jointer to give me a straight edge. A belt sander would have worked to remove the material as well but I would have gotten a mouth, nose, and eyes full of sawdust in the process and probably shot past the cut line. The jointer at the end was probably unnecessary but it was there so why not?

And here she is attached to the stem form on the strongback:


20150225_006 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

The stern stem was done the same way but went faster since I didn't have to think, just repeat. Tomorrow I'll bevel and start stripping.....I hope.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Of course! How could I forget to talk about the weight!? I weighed the bow stem and it was 4.5 ounces as it sits now. Figure another .5 ounce removed during the tapering(?) which would mean total weight of the stems is 8 ounces. Not bad and at all and probably the same weight as the sabots/shoes I was using, especially when you figure the few ounces of epoxy it takes to fill the inside of the stem with that thickened fillet. All of a sudden using both internal and external stems (assuming they're cedar) doesn't seem like such a weight penalty after all.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

And now we come to my conundrum I need to decide on tomorrow:


20150225_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Leave it as-is or cut it down to the height of the 1st form?

I'm inclined to say leave it as-is but I'm unsure of how stripping will go. It seems to me the outside edge of the stem should be exposed over its entire length with no strips lapping over the top of it. If that's how it's to be the stem has to remain at the height it is now (it's at the height of the finished hull). That seems fine but I'm having a hard time visualizing the stripping process along the keel. Seems they'd be butting into the stem very flat and would almost need a ledge to sit on.

If I plane the stems down to the height of the first form then strips will overlay the stems along the keel and when sanding the hull fair the strip thickness, which will be full thickness at the first form, will gradually need to taper down until it melts into the stem, which will then be exposed. That seems like it might be easier to strip and probably not too dangerous at sanding time.

It's also not too late to chuck the stems in the wood stove and go back to my old way of building.

In other words, Alan, I'm thinking you've got something new in mind, that we'll probably find out about before the ed of the week, if past practice holds true!

Well if I've got something new in mind I wish I'd hurry up and figure it out! My mind is mostly enjoying the exercise and trying to figure things out but the rest of my brain is screaming at me to KEEP MOVING KEEP MOVING KEEP MOVING!!

Alan

 

[Holmes375]

I agree that there is no huge reason for stems. But I like how they highlight the profile of the bow and stern. They also clean up my less that stellar woodwork at the ends.

Agreed. I do like the potential strength of ash outers for paddling here in the Rockies but I use stems primarily for their appearance.

 

[memaquay]

Just thought, without any idea of if it could work. What if you took the stem off and routered a small shelf 1/4 deep around the stem to the vertical. Then you could butt your strips flush and have something to staple to.

 

[wysedav]

OK -- I'm confused, Alan why is the stem wider at the bow tip? Seems like it should be narrower there because the strips come in at a sharp angle. Where it transitions to the hull could be wider because the strips are coming in at a flatter angle. Aren't your strips overlapping the whole internal stem? If so then you have to trim it down to flush with the first form. Last if the internal stem is visible I wold radius the tip and exposed sharp edges before you start stripping, it will not be fun trying to do it after everything is together.

 

[Momentum]

Alan, great start so far.
I know your itching to get going, so thought I would throw my 2 cents in the pot.

I've only built one canoe, and you guys are the real experts, but the way I did mine was to plane (sand) the stem down to meet the shape of the first form. As you follow the stem all the way down to the bottom (top of the canoe) the taper will change. It's a bit of trial and error, and you'll need to hold a strip in place to check for fairness as you go. This is an internal stem, so it really doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just close enough for the strip to lay pretty flat.

Before I started stripping though, I ran a small radius on the 2 inside edges of the stem, as well as I rounded the end. This makes it a bit more pleasing to the eyes, and won't hurt your knees as much if you ever end up kneeling right up tight to the bow or stern.

As I said, just my 2 cents. I hope it helps

Oh, and don't forget to pull your screws before you start stripping. Duh.

Looking forward to more.

Momentum

 

[memaquay]

Wysedav, I can't answer for Alan, but I have made stems like this too, purely for aesthetic reasons. Of course he will be adjusting the bevel of the stem as he applies his strips, but that is not to be confused with the shaping of the stem for visual purposes. That's my take anyway.

 

[Alan Gage]

Just thought, without any idea of if it could work. What if you took the stem off and routered a small shelf 1/4 deep around the stem to the vertical. Then you could butt your strips flush and have something to staple to.

The thought has crossed my mind but I have a hard time envisioning how the strips would lay on that shelf as they twisted into the stem and it seems that it would have to taper back into the stem as there would need to be a transition at some point.

OK -- I'm confused, Alan why is the stem wider at the bow tip?

Purely aesthetics, not something I'm entirely proud of.

Before I started stripping though, I ran a small radius on the 2 inside edges of the stem, as well as I rounded the end. This makes it a bit more pleasing to the eyes, and won't hurt your knees as much if you ever end up kneeling right up tight to the bow or stern.

Hey, thanks for the reminder! I was going to do that and forgot all about it.

Lots of great advice and ideas presented here and lots to think about. I get the feeling I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be and that once I'm done I'll wonder why I was so worried about it ahead of time. I think my plan for now is to start stripping and make any changes on the fly. I'll bevel the stem as I go and as I get closer to the keel, where most of my confusion stems from (nice pun, eh?), l like I'll get a better visualization of how the strips will want to lay in and then I can do what I think is best. I should be able to get most of the stripping done before I actually have to deal with that area.

Alan