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Solo expedition build

You're are really moving right along ! Looks great !

Was just wondering, If you considered using this hull as a plug for a Kevlar hull ?

Jim

I think doing something like that would be really fun but I don't have any plans for it now. For starters I don't know if this boat is even going to be right for me.

I have been thinking about building a stripper with 1/8" strips and then covering it with carbon and kevlar instead of fiberglass to get light weight but still pretty tough. It would have all carbon trim. Shouldn't be a problem getting that around 30 pounds.

Alan
 
What is your lamination schedule in terns of partials and footballs?

On this boat the inside and outside both have a full layer of 4oz. E-glass. The outside has a layer of 6oz. S-glass as the outermost layer up to the water line (about 4.5") and the inside has a layer of 6oz. E-glass buried under the full layer, also up to the water line.

A few more layers of S-glass at the stems.

Alan
 
Pretty exciting day so far but it looks like things have worked out fine.

At lunch I figured I should turn up the heat in the shop to get ready for the epoxy work tonight. Felt colder than usual when I walked in and the furnace didn't kick on when I tried to turn up the heat. Oh shoot! I ran out of propane! Get back to work, call the guy, and he says he'll be there in 20 minutes. 45 minutes later the furnace is kicking out the BTUs and we're back in business! My chickens were happy to have a visitor and I gave him some eggs as a tip.

Get home from work early and start getting things ready. Seems like wetting out 3 layers of cloth on the boat would be a real hassle so I decided to wet them out before putting them on the gunwales. For that I'd need a large, flat, and clean surface. That darned piece of foil faced foam that made me so mad the other night was perfect:


20150326_001 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

That's 3" kevlar that goes down first. Then 4" carbon followed by 4" fiberglass.

I spread a coat of epoxy on the cedar gunwales and also a thin coat on the hull where the fabric would make contact. Then I used a roller to wet out the length of kevlar and placed it on the gunwale and started smoothing it out. I was glad to see the plain woven fabric had no trouble conforming to the curves without wrinkling but I was a bit dismayed that it had no desire to actually hold that shape! It just kept pulling away and adding more epoxy didn't seem to help it stick. Maybe this is where the double bias weave cloth Stripperguy used would come in handy!?

I didn't know what to do other than keep going and hope with more layers it would get better. Even though I knew the vacuum bag would pull it tight and hold it I didn't know how I'd ever get everything properly positioned and wrinkle free before sealing it up. So I wet out the carbon fabric and laid it over the kevlar and things started to look a little better. It would hold position for a little while before pulling away from the sides again but not as bad. The fiberglass tape went on last and at this point it held shape pretty well, only pulling away in the corners a little at the transition from gunwale to hull. I breathed a sigh of relief. The vacuum bag shouldn't have any problem taking care of that and placing the different layers inside the bag will be much easier with the fabric staying mostly in place.

I switched into a clean pair of gloves before the next step and took a quick picture:


20150326_002 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Then I started placing the different layers inside the vacuum bag, which was a little tedious. Especially the outer layer of bag film and trying to get it to be as smooth as possible where it contacted the tacky tape.

The second excitement of the day occurred when it was time to install the vacuum adapter. A normal person would have gotten everything out and ready before starting something like this but I'm not a normal person. I knew right where the adapter should be and was a bit troubled when it wasn't there. I also knew some places it shouldn't be and it wasn't there either! So I start looking through the multitude of drawers and boxes in my shop trying to figure out where the heck I could have put it. And all the while the epoxy clock is tick, tick, ticking. Getting a bit panicky I was about to go with the backup plan of cutting the fitting off my hose and just jamming it inside the bag and doping up the penetration with tacky tape to try and seal when I stopped one last time to think really hard about where that adapter was. I knew I had it just the other day when I made that thwart and.....Aha!.....I remembered that when I unwrapped the thwart and threw away all the bag materials they felt surprisingly heavy. So I started digging through the garbage and, sure enough, I never took the adapter out of the bag and threw it away with the trash.

So now we're back and business and can finally seal up the bag and flip on the vacuum pump. Then use a J-roller to roll the tacky tape seam shut and then go over and try to seal up the obvious leaks and listen for the hiss from the not so obvious leaks. Slowly it's starting to pull into a vacuum and after fixing one large leak I can hear the vacuum pump make the happy sound it gets when there's a good seal and everything starts to get stretched really tight. Happy dance!


20150326_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr


20150326_004 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

You can see the dark polka dots where excess resin is being forced out of the laminate and is being soaked up by the breather fabric:


20150326_005 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

My bag film isn't long enough to cover the entire length of the canoe so I had to make a splice:


20150326_006 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Can't ask for much more than this:


20150326_007 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

It won't hold when the valve is closed so I'll just let the pump keep running for a couple hours and try to seal up some more leaks later.

After the pump had pulled a good vacuum for about 15 minutes I bled it all off so that I could somewhat manipulate some large folds and used a skinny strip (with corners rounded) to press everything tightly into the corners before turning the pump back on. Very anxious for the unveiling tomorrow. I hope the cloth all stayed put and nothing got pulled out of sorts as the bag was tightening.

Alan
 
I've got my fingers crossed too !

I can't count the times I've lost things, only to find them right in front of my Face ! My Wife can tell you stories !

Did you use epoxy with a Slow hardener ?

Jim
 
Did you use epoxy with a Slow hardener ?

Oh yeah!

Slow hardener with the shop warmed up to 66 degrees. Once I started working I shut of the heat so it wouldn't kick on and warm things up since I'm working right under it. Once the bag was sealed and pulling a good vacuum I bumped it up the 73 degrees to help things set up quicker.

Alan
 
Alan,
Very excited to see your results...I know those panicked moments too well, when you can't find that last fitting or where did I leave my shears? They were just here a moment ago!! (BTW, I'm a firm believer in time warps, especially where tools disappear for a few hours or days, only to reappear exactly where you knew they weren't located minutes ago. I was working along once, when I heard a distinctive "plink". Sure enough, it was the screw that I lost 2 weeks before, emerging from its time traveling trip. I was just happy that it traveled to the future, if it had gone the other way, I would never have known!)


Those gunnels will be beyond bullet proof. Did you decide yet on the decks/chambers? More CF? I really like that combination of traditional wood strip with high tech CF and Kevlar, a nice contrast.
 
This is what the first side looked like when I unwrapped it:


20150327_001 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Those aren't wrinkles in the cloth. Rather the peel ply bunched up and caused wrinkles in the resin. The resin was no longer tacky but it was still green so a sharp chisel shaved them off easily. The problem was most apparent towards the ends where the hull starts to rise and curve, otherwise it was pretty smooth. I tried to be more careful on the second side and, although it was better, I wasn't able to eliminate them by any means. Perhaps I should have used the standard nylon peel ply that's woven. Maybe it would have had an easier time following the hull as it started to turn in and rise towards the stems. The plastic stuff doesn't stretch so the only way to make a bend is to have it wrinkle. Perhaps another option would be to use multiple short pieces in that section.

Otherwise the second side went well. Much more relaxing than the first side knowing that once the fiberglass layer was added it would all lay down pretty nice and that I'd be able to get it sealed up without an issue.

While the second side was being sucked into a vacuum I started working on the first side, which was now setup hard, with sandpaper to remove the rest of those wrinkles. Seemed to be going pretty well when all of a sudden I noticed black dust coming off. The sander hadn't been completely flat and wore into the edge. I stopped just as it started cutting into the kevlar. Oops! The vacuum bag didn't leave a very thick film of resin on the surface. I stopped there and didn't go any farther.


20150328_011 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

After the second side was unwrapped I again shaved off the wrinkles with a sharp chisel but instead of sanding it I decided I add more epoxy so I'd have a little more to work with when sanding. I added two coats to each side. I used fast setting hardener so I could re-coat in a couple hours. This picture shows the same area as above that had all the wrinkles in it. This is after sanding and adding two coats of epoxy:


20150328_008 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Once those additional coats of epoxy were setup I added a patch to the area I'd sanded through. One more layer of carbon and fiberglass:


20150328_012 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

I don't think I'm going to knock myself out trying to get the finish perfect on the gunwales. With such narrow and curved surfaces it's going to be very easy to cut through the cloth again. What's left of the wrinkles are easier to feel than to see. I'll get it better than it is but will stop well short of perfection.

Overall I'm happy with how it went. There were a few small areas where it didn't get sucked tight into the corner and left a thick pocket of resin. It's not going to hurt anything and isn't noticeable unless you look underneath the gunwale so I'm not going to do anything about it. I probably should have added thicker epoxy fillets to those corners to better ease the transition.

I was going to recommend not using plain weave cloth for carbon gunwales unless you're prepared to vacuum bag it but now I'm not so sure. If I didn't vacuum bag mine it would have been a disaster as the cloth would not stay tight to the gunwales, as I mentioned in a previous response. It wasn't bad after the fiberglass layer was added but it still wanted to pull away a little. I think the layer of 3" kevlar was mostly to blame. I don't know if it was the kevlar itself or the fact it was only 3" wide tape but when I added that little patch at the end, where I'd sanded through, using only 4" carbon topped with 4" fiberglass it seemed to conform and stick in place without an issue. I think it would have been ok not using a vacuum bag as long as that layer of 3" kevlar hadn't been under it all.

I know Stripperguy used a double bias woven tape and I'd imagine it did a better job of conforming and staying in place on its own.

Alan
 
A weight update:

The bare hull was 35.5 pounds.
After epoxying the cedar gunwales in place: 38.75 pounds
After adding one layer each of kevlar (5oz), carbon (5.7oz), and fiberglass (6oz) to the gunwales: 40 pounds

I've very happy with that. 4.5lbs for gunwales that I believe will be stronger that any other option within reason.

Alan
 
I almost forgot. A hint for anyone who needs to remove tacky tape from their hull, or anything else for that matter.

Trying to peel it off the same way you'd remove tape doesn't work. It's very difficult, slow, and breaks a lot. But if you pull it forward instead it seems to release itself and comes off much easier.

Don't do it this way:


20150328_002 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Do it this way:


20150328_003 by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Alan
 
Well, due to my irregular sleeping schedule caused by excessive boredom, I believe I'm the first to see this highly anticipated unveiling. Looks awesome! Question that comes to mind....is the hull fairly close to specs, or will you have to tuck it in with thwarts? Do you think the kevlar/cedar gunwales have much movement in them, or are they completely rigid? You know you almost caused a panic with your absence, I'm sure some of us thought you went on vacation or something!
 
This has been one of the best and most informative write ups I have ever followed. It simply boggles my mind how people can make such a thing of beauty! Way beyond my skill levels. I probably would have called it quits making the strong backs! I will admit I have been checking this thread frequently to see how each step came out! I've also tucked some of your tricks away to use down the road. I think I'll stick to throwing patches on old hulls. Thanks for taking the time to explain and document each step!
 
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Interesting.

We in this house are curious how you intend to join gunwales to decks to eliminate the weak spot created by not taking the inwales all the way to the stems.

We will have to wait and see.
 
Alan,
It looks like you got all of what you wanted and some of what you may not have wanted.
Those gunnels looks great in the photos, a fantastic contrast of color, texture and style. Couple that with the bullet proof nature of the hull and gunnel construction and you're ready for anything, almost.
I did use bias woven CF tape for just the reasons that caused you trouble, but that bias woven stuff was one or two times the cost of straight woven CF tape.
When I wrapped my foam gunnels with the CF, it was incredibly labor intensive, and a general PIA. I also had to sand, apply resin, sand, repeat, as you did. I was hoping your experiences would make me change my future methods....maybe not. (especially since all of the vacuum equipment left with the SIL last week). I do really like the idea of wrapping a soft wood gunnel with the CF tape, maybe that will be next for me too.
Overall, I'd say you have all the aesthetics you were hoping for, but as we all know, the true test is in the water. I suppose you have open water by you...we've still got ice jams near home and 24 inches of ice on the ADK waters...
 
Alan, that looks great! Thanks for experimenting with these new methods for us. I may have to take a crack at wrapped gunwales on my next build. Then again I might take the easy way out and use aluminum. Keep it up. It's going to look real handsome with the decks and gunwales in carbon against that cream background.
 
Alan, this has been extraordinary so far. It took me a while to catch up after being away, but dang I like it.

I’m looking forward to seeing what you do with the rest of the outfitting, especially the seat and possibly foot brace.

Any thoughts about tie down points or anchors for specific gear, especially stuff that always goes in the same place?

I liked what Conk did with his always-available pivoting yoke.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114267878012874538920/Kestrel

I tried something similar though less elegantly functional in the past. If your plans include upstream a quick connect always-there yoke would seem a boon.

Eagerly awaiting the outfitting.
 
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