Jack's - Morris - Special

[Mihun09]

So, sanding has commenced and I hate sanding but this beast is going to take awhile. My cove was kind of offset so the outside lip is bigger and needs to be removed. Before the next build I will upgrade my router table to something more precise. However, at the moment it is going to work and my lapstrake planking is becoming smoother. I need to make a run for more discs tomorrow but I have maybe 1/4 of the boat done at this point so I should have the whole thing sanded tomorrow. I will be calling it the Gapster for awhile, at least until I scrape a coat of filler on the entire hull late next week. Ordered some pigment today so hopefully it will arrive either prior to Christmas or early the week following as I did plan to do glassing that week while I am off.

 

[Alan Gage]

I love it after they're sanded down and you can finally run your hand over a smooth hull. Looks like you've got dust extraction for your sander which takes a lot of the pain out of sanding.

What color pigment did you decide to go with?

I will be calling it the Gapster for awhile

In another thread you mentioned you thought you did a better job on your first stripper because you were so nervous about it. I can certainly relate to that. I'm still surprised when I look back at my first stripper at how nice and tight all the joints are, probably the best I've done and that was with square edged strips. I don't think I had to fill anything on that one before glassing. The 2nd stripper I built was probably my worst in terms of how much filler it needed. Each one gets better and easier as you find out where you can and can't cut corners and what you can and can't live with. I figure by the time I've built as many as Jim, Stripperguy, and Mem I might just about have it figured out.

Alan

 

[Mihun09]

Under the other canoe is my Rigid shop vac. I scabbed together different hoses with adapters and duct tape to get enough length for ease of use. Hanging it seemed to work best and there wasn't any dust in the air during the entire process. I was getting static build up in the hose which was shocking in the worst places, but when I could I would just hang onto the hose near the sander to help drain the charge.

I have had issues with both builds with filling in the second side along the center cut line. I think I figured out the best approach later in the process but it still has numerous ugly gaps from ill fitting strips which will be seen from the inside. I could just paint a stripe down the middle to hide it. I've come up short lately on patience and it shows in the amount of gaps which were deemed acceptable considering the exterior is getting pigment/paint, but the inside is going to be a bear to sand, but again, although I love the wood grain considering how much flat sawn I have, I may have to paint the inside as well. Time will tell.

I ordered pigment from Gelcoat International out of Peterborough, Ontario. I looked at US Composites but they are closing for the holidays on the 24th for 10 days. The two jars of pigment I got at Cargo East when I bought my epoxy just won't be enough so I ordered the same stuff in larger quantities. The plan is to custom mix a colour, hopefully a light cream if I can work it out of white, yellow and brown. Mixing colours is fairly easy for me so this should be just a new twist on an old skill. I worked in the sign industry for over 20 years so colour matching was very important with paints and inks. I had a boss who would pull a dozen colour chips out of a Pantone book and send me home with them and over a weekend I had to figure out the colours used in each sample and rough percentage. So, I can look at most colours now and know what is in them and when I imagine a colour I can usually match it pretty good.

The fairing putty is sanding very well after about 18 hours of cure so today I will slather the rest of the boat and Christmas Eve I will be out sanding that off in preparation for glassing. If the pigment does not show up in time, I always have the option to just go ahead and glass and paint later but I would use up the little bit of pigment I have first.

When you did the Bloodvein with the pigmented resin, did you have any difficulty during the wet out coat in seeing if you had starved areas in the glass?

 

[Alan Gage]

still has numerous ugly gaps from ill fitting strips which will be seen from the inside. I could just paint a stripe down the middle to hide it.

I've always got some of those, I don't get too worried about them. Have you ever tried filling them with epoxy thickened with cedar dust? Once filled and sanded you'd be surprised at how well they disappear. Once it's glassed I can't see them unless I go looking. Pure cedar dust, depending on the color of the cedar you were sanding, can many times make it too dark so I add just a little cabosil or micro balloons (sands easier) to lighten the color.

Also, before glassing I walk along the canoe a couple times looking up from below. Anywhere I can see light shining through gets taped to keep as much resin from running through as possible.

I envy you being able to deconstruct and mix your own colors. I'm terrible with colors and I never know if they're right or wrong until I actually see a completely painted room/boat. I would have liked to mix my own color when I did my Bloodvein but knew it would turn out a disaster.

When you did the Bloodvein with the pigmented resin, did you have any difficulty during the wet out coat in seeing if you had starved areas in the glass?

Yeah, it was a little different not being able to see it turn clear. I just kept looking back over the parts I'd done to make sure they looked wet and glossy rather than dry. I put my epoxy on kinda heavy and, a couple times during the process, go back to portions that have been resinated for about 20 minutes and squeegee off the excess. As long as I'm able to squeegee some extra epoxy out and there are no pinholes in the weave I figure it's wet out fine. On my last boat I used an epoxy with a 45 minute pot life, which stays runny a lot longer than that when spread out on a 70 degree hull, and was able to wet out the whole exterior before going back with the squeegee. That was a lot nicer than stopping in the middle.

Alan

 

[Mihun09]

As I'm sure you know, all colours dry darker than it appears when wet. I would generally mix a colour and do a sample on paper and dry it with a hair dryer or heat gun to see it after drying.

I've done the peanut butter filler and am using the fairing mix for gaps in the center, it is a light brown/being colour already so shouldn't stand out too much. I do use a white filler with the sawdust from the sander boot as well, definitely too dark with just cedar dust. I bought slow hardener to give me adequate working time and will heat the shop up prior and let it cool and just sit and watch epoxy dry.

Christy is already planning more stripper builds so it is a good thing I over built the strong back and we have a place to store it. Perhaps we will move away from w/c restoration and build strippers instead, a much better market for those here as well.

There are always options. Still haven't figured out what to use for innies and outies but I think I can still get a 11 foot piece of Honduran Mahogany at the local specialty wood store and it would be wide enough to do both. Not much of anything available at full length unless I want to order bending ash, but not sure I want the weight or whiteness of Ash.

 

[memaquay]

Mahogany is nice, I vote for mahogany! Oops, wait, that voting stuff is for that other thread. Anyway, my Chum got mahogany, and he really liked it.

 

[Mihun09]

How dry is it?

Dry enough to soak up several passes with the roller of the seal coat of pigmented resin. I'm likely gong to have to wait for it to cure, sand it and hit certain spots again.

After a week of laying on fairing filler and sanding, I figured it was good enough for the seal coat. Any gaps left are small enough for the glass to bridge easily. Wait, did I say "good enough". Crap, I'm digressing.

Of note, although a drop of yellow pigment into pure white is sufficient to give me a nice cream colour, the hardener is Amberish and pushes it more to beige, so, once I get my pigment I will try more yellow in the hopes of forcing it to stay cream.

Pigment, where is my pigment. Hopefully, it is in the mail...

They charged my credit card on the 21st.... so I hope it is in transit. This isn't the first time I've been blind on an internet order. The company in MN that I use for silicon bronze bolts is like that, they take the order, charge your card and then it just shows up in your mailbox at some point. The first time was rather scary, but after that I knew how they did it so I was ok with it. So, now, I figure this company in Peterborough is the same way. They need a web presence but may not have the funds to go further than take orders and ship them. Makes one wonder how difficult it would be to send an e-mail with thanks for the order and when it shipped. So we wait. Hoping it comes in before Thursday so I can still glass this week while I am off.

The dry looking spots in the photo were hit several times and STILL soaked all the resin up.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Looking good Karin !
Did you epoxy over the brass ?

Jim

 

[Mihun09]

Brass?

 

[Jim Dodd]

OH ! It appeared like a brass stem band on the end ! I need my Eyes checked ! I see it now after closer examination !
Sorry !

Jim

 

[stripperguy]

Oooh, Karin, it's looking great!! Don't sweat those little gaps...an artist is always their own worst critic. As you go into production with hundreds of hulls per year, any gaps will magically disappear.
And dare I say it? That is a sensuous hull shape, very nice. Even though I think I've made a permanent switch to foam/carbon trim, I'm still partial to mahogany, especially for a hull like yours. We do get to vote, right?

 

[Alan Gage]

Looks great!

Alan

 

[Mihun09]

Considering the hull colour will be light, I'm thinking dark for rails and decks for a nice contrast. So, if the mahogany doesn't go dark enough with just varnish, then I could stain them darker to suit. Still working out the details.

 

[Rippy]

The contrast would look great!

 

[Mihun09]

Okies, got the football piece of glass ready to go. Using 60" material I just rolled out the length I wanted, folded it in half and split it. The extra piece was rolled onto a core from Christmas paper and will be used to add a layer on Christine's stripper in a little while. So now I just have to wait for pigment to show up and I plan to check the post office in an hour or so. Hopefully it will be here before the holiday Friday.

My plan is to wet out the little piece first, wait til it goes off and then do the full layer. I really don't want the football piece moving as I lay out the big piece and I should have the time. I will be using slow hardener and since I cannot get the shop really warm, likely only low 70's, the extra time should allow me to get each wet out coat nice and smooth before it starts to go off. I'll most likely be mixing and applying on my own so hopefully...

We are planning a road trip to the city on Saturday to look at wood for the rails and decks.

 

[Alan Gage]

Always an exciting time when it's ready for 'glass!

I've never had much problem with the bottom layer moving when I wet out both layers at once. Occasionally the bottom layer will develop a light wrinkle but it always comes out easily by peeling back the top layer a little for access. But usually it's no problem at all.

Placing a dry layer of glass over a layer that has begun to setup but isn't hard (still a bit tacky) can be quite frustrating. BTDT. Would be easier if you had an extra set of hands for placement.

Low 70's should be fine. I rarely turn mine up over 70 when I fiberglass.

We are planning a road trip to the city on Saturday to look at wood for the rails and decks.

I've been striking out on wood but last night went to the local lumberyard for another look at their ancient, and small, Cherry stash. I'd given it a look last year and was disappointed. This time I dug all the way to the bottom and found one 1x4 and one 1x6 that should do the trick. Hope you have good luck with your own wood hunt.

Alan

 

[memaquay]

I echo Alan's sentiments....I think it's easier to do both pieces at once. If you wait for the bottom first, you ay have to deal with raised edges and stuff before putting the second piece on. I always work on my own, and have never had a problem rolling the big piece over the football. If you have an extra hand, it will be easy peasy.

 

[Mihun09]

Just back from the postal outlet and no pigment yet. Did some research on the West System site and it is their suggestion to Not pigment the first fill coat but only subsequent coats. There is no mention of not pigmenting the wet out coat though but I would figure not doing it for that would help ensure proper epoxy coating. Either way I have to wait for pigment to arrive as it sounds like I can do it all in one day, since they said it is best to put All fill coats on in one day, just waiting for the previous coat to get to the "masking tape sticky" stage before applying additional coats.

First stripper I did all the glassing myself and that was nerve wracking for sure, first time and all but it worked well.

I'll wait for Christy to get home from work then go put the full layer over what is there.

So Mem, you been hiding or just trying to figure out how to spend the 60mil you won last Friday night?

On a different tack, Christy put up the idea of, if we are going to pigment the exterior on future builds, why not use polyester resin instead considering it is about 1/3 the cost of epoxy. Any thoughts from the stripper guru's on that?

 

[Jim Dodd]

My First canoe was built with Polyester, and it will be my last.
It is cheaper. But has a tendency to delaminate down the road. It's hard to believe that Poly doesn't stick to wood like epoxy !

If this is a canoe you want to treasure, I'd go with epoxy.

Jim

 

[Mihun09]

My First canoe was built with Polyester, and it will be my last.
It is cheaper. But has a tendency to delaminate down the road. It's hard to believe that Poly doesn't stick to wood like epoxy !

If this is a canoe you want to treasure, I'd go with epoxy.

Jim

Yea, that's right, that is why they use polyester on w/c boats, because it mostly doesn't adhere to the wood. There is always putting polyester over a seal coat of epoxy though, since polyester will stick to epoxy. Possible experimentation time.