YES.
Thanks Charlie, for letting me have a peek behind the curtain to see what you mad and crazy people are up to...building hulls of the future. Very cool.
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Merry Christmas, Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All! 🎄🎅🏻🎁
Innegra S & H
- Thread starter charlie wilson
- Start date
YES.
Thanks Charlie, for letting me have a peek behind the curtain to see what you mad and crazy people are up to...building hulls of the future. Very cool.
G
Guest
Guest
I enjoy learning about things I don't know. I teach in several areas and the line between loosing people by being too technical and using unfamiliar terms and not teaching in enough depth is key. There is a difference between being challenged by new information vs being "snowed" by unnecessarily obscure terms and descriptions unnecessary to convey the data.
Turtle
Turtle
Innegra is an olefin fiber. Olefin is a synthetic fiber made from a polyolefin such as polyethylene or polypropylene.
Many paddlers will surely have an orgasmic interest in knowing that this is an olefin:
Olefins are used in many fabrics and materials for clothing, home furnishings and automobiles. Some trademarked olefin materials we non-orgasmic canoeists may be familiar with are: CoolMax, Hollofil, Thermoloft, Tyvek, Polar Guard, Trevira, Thinsulate.
"Innegra S" is just the olefin fiber. That's not what's in canoes. "Innegra H" is used in canoes. It's a composite material where Innegra S is interwoven with either fiberglass, carbon or basalt to make a "H"ybrid. The interweaving is done at the filament level.
http://www.innegratech.com/file/3595...rifold2013.pdf
I'd be interested in seeing impact, compression, bending and weight tests for Innegra H versus some other hybrid composites already used in canoes -- such as Wenonah's "Tuf Weave", which is a bi-weave of fiberglass and polyester, and Nova Craft's "Blue Steel", which, according to the NC website, is an "advanced Aramid Carbon material combined with Spectra". Is that Greek or cake?
Me . . . I know what cedar and ash are. Although I'm not sure what aluminum actually "is", I can recognize it.
Disclaimer: This post was not intended to be informative but simply to have broad sex appeal.
Many paddlers will surely have an orgasmic interest in knowing that this is an olefin:
Olefins are used in many fabrics and materials for clothing, home furnishings and automobiles. Some trademarked olefin materials we non-orgasmic canoeists may be familiar with are: CoolMax, Hollofil, Thermoloft, Tyvek, Polar Guard, Trevira, Thinsulate.
"Innegra S" is just the olefin fiber. That's not what's in canoes. "Innegra H" is used in canoes. It's a composite material where Innegra S is interwoven with either fiberglass, carbon or basalt to make a "H"ybrid. The interweaving is done at the filament level.
http://www.innegratech.com/file/3595...rifold2013.pdf
I'd be interested in seeing impact, compression, bending and weight tests for Innegra H versus some other hybrid composites already used in canoes -- such as Wenonah's "Tuf Weave", which is a bi-weave of fiberglass and polyester, and Nova Craft's "Blue Steel", which, according to the NC website, is an "advanced Aramid Carbon material combined with Spectra". Is that Greek or cake?
Me . . . I know what cedar and ash are. Although I'm not sure what aluminum actually "is", I can recognize it.
Disclaimer: This post was not intended to be informative but simply to have broad sex appeal.
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All I know for sure is that I was trying to get a free canoe 
Finally we're getting somewhere. Hanz, let me know when you're done with the new sexy loaner canoe. Our anniversary is coming up next summer, and between paddling my sweetheart of 35 years of marriage in that silky smooth hull, and whispering sweet and sultry suggestions of "polymer" and "infusion lamination", she'll be mine once again. Oooh baby.
Just one question Charlie, how's the secondary stability in that thing?
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I went back and re-read the original posts, which I haven't done since they were posted, and gotta say I don't see where you're coming from. I thought much of it was easy enough to absorb and what was over my head could be researched for a better understanding or ignored.
Alan
Alan
Yes. Like button and thank you Charlie. When we pay you more you can write longer articles.
Glenn, I love it when you talk dirty like that you silver tongued devil.
so this is how we treat someone with over forty years in canoe material design? Quasi expert? Some of us are leeches.. and hangers on but some others here do in wood and one in composites..
I am kind of tired of all the bird negativity for one.. Sure there is a consequence.. Understand what you are buying when you are buying it. You will be ahead of the other customers.
I am kind of tired of all the bird negativity for one.. Sure there is a consequence.. Understand what you are buying when you are buying it. You will be ahead of the other customers.
I see that Charlie's OP is the first in a new category - Paddlecraft Construction. I hope it won't be the/his last. Whether I'll actually use any of this education is moot. There was always a kid in class who asked "Yeah, we have to learn this stuff, but will I ever really need to know it?" That kid was never me.
There've been times on this forum when I've read something as it goes right over my head. I generally make 3 choices. 1) Allow my eyes to glaze over and move on to another thread. I'm not interested in, nor do I need to know everything. 2) Read and re-read (and maybe do a little internet exploring) until I understand it. 3) Take a shortcut and ask the author a question. I assume most everyone makes one of these three choices every time they visit this forum. I go to #1 only sometimes, and will often wander back to # 2. Such was the case with this Innegra thread. I'm glad I did. Now I know a little more about canoes. I have no qualms about choosing # 3 option, asking Charlie a question, as I know he'll show respect (and some humour) in answering questions. I've asked questions of people here before, and been grateful for their respectful replies.
Dinner is almost ready, so I'll go and enjoy a quiet meal. Maybe I'll open an unpretentious little bottle of my favourite Cab, just to celebrate getting a little closer to the weekend...or to celebrate knowing a little more about canoes.
take care,
Brad
There've been times on this forum when I've read something as it goes right over my head. I generally make 3 choices. 1) Allow my eyes to glaze over and move on to another thread. I'm not interested in, nor do I need to know everything. 2) Read and re-read (and maybe do a little internet exploring) until I understand it. 3) Take a shortcut and ask the author a question. I assume most everyone makes one of these three choices every time they visit this forum. I go to #1 only sometimes, and will often wander back to # 2. Such was the case with this Innegra thread. I'm glad I did. Now I know a little more about canoes. I have no qualms about choosing # 3 option, asking Charlie a question, as I know he'll show respect (and some humour) in answering questions. I've asked questions of people here before, and been grateful for their respectful replies.
Dinner is almost ready, so I'll go and enjoy a quiet meal. Maybe I'll open an unpretentious little bottle of my favourite Cab, just to celebrate getting a little closer to the weekend...or to celebrate knowing a little more about canoes.
take care,
Brad
Moi? No, not at all. I'm relaxing with a nice (cheap) glass of wine; you're the one blowing a fuse...over and over and over again.
Have you nothing else to offer, besides temper tantrums? Nothing positive? You rant about not getting any intelligent conversation here on this thread, and then you fill it up with hissy fits.
I quite enjoyed learning a bit about this Innegra stuff. Your added industry info was good. Thank you for that. There's much to learn and enjoy on this forum. Not just the high tech stuff, but the low tech stuff and everything in between. From pets to paddles, packs to pots and pans...and canoe construction.
I still don't understand your negativity l'oiseau. I hope you calm down, and feel more positive again soon.
That's one of the things that I took away from it. It's not new. It's been done in canoes already but only to a limited degree. There hasn't been much testing of the material in thin laminations. They're still working on how to best make use of it and when they do don't expect it to be more more than an incremental step in terms of weight and durability though price may go down as it becomes more common.
As far as I'm concerned that's great information. Much more informative than the video put out by Nova Craft showing them standing on the hull and hitting it with a sledge hammer. From that video you'd be led to believe there has been a quantum leap forward in materials. As I'm sure you've seen it's been discussed heavily on many other boating forums and I've seen it more than once on Facebook too. Everyone started asking questions about this new wonder material and I figured that was the reason Charlie suddenly cross posted the information on multiple forums.
It would be nice to see more back and forth in the conversation but most people simply don't have enough knowledge of the subject to know what to ask and are happy to just listen. That's certainly the case for me and the reason for my reply that you quoted above. I learned something that I thought was useful and also learned that there is a lot more that I don't know but that piqued my interest to be further explored later.
Alan
I haven't been following this thread, just not my thing. Someone sent me a pm alerting me to the direction it has taken so I did a quick read.
I thought the OP was informative, way over my head, but I figured that's just normal talk for folks who don't paddle wood canvas canoes.
I'll "keep this simple", if you don't like someones post, ignore it.
After almost two years of running this site, I have learned that there are a few things that draw good people here. Here's a few, stripperguy's canoe builds, pictures, what will Glenn say next, Memaquay's charm, YC's knowlege, Mihuns builds, Charlie Wilson's thoughts, Oldie Moldyism's, Odyssey's writing, too name a few. Let's not screw up a good thing.
Really, the negative posts end now.
I thought the OP was informative, way over my head, but I figured that's just normal talk for folks who don't paddle wood canvas canoes.
I'll "keep this simple", if you don't like someones post, ignore it.
After almost two years of running this site, I have learned that there are a few things that draw good people here. Here's a few, stripperguy's canoe builds, pictures, what will Glenn say next, Memaquay's charm, YC's knowlege, Mihuns builds, Charlie Wilson's thoughts, Oldie Moldyism's, Odyssey's writing, too name a few. Let's not screw up a good thing.
Really, the negative posts end now.
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I don't get what the fuss is all about. Charlie presented some information which he thought might be of interest to some who read or participate on this forum. If one reads a dozen or more of the replys, it's apparent that he was correct.That it was not of interest to all is immaterial. Those not interested need not follow the thread. If we all limited our posts to only those items of interest to all, I suggest that none of us would post anything.
Well said, Thank You
Have any of these fabrics been considered as substitutes for Dacron (or canvas)? Can you imagine it?!
The beauty of a cedar interior with the exterior of the Carbon-Innegra H?
This might be opening a can of sacrilegious worms. I'd paddle one though.
The beauty of a cedar interior with the exterior of the Carbon-Innegra H?
This might be opening a can of sacrilegious worms. I'd paddle one though.
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Brad I've been keeping my eye on you and you're about due. The axe man (Heikki) might not recognize you with your new screen name and all but I didn't forget who you were. You nearly caused an international incident last winter.
JK
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Why??? To me that would be like fiberglassing a wood canvas or wood dacron boat. Noooooooooooooooooo.. Anyone who has worked with a wooden boat knows the unjoy (Karin and Christy) of removing fiberglass when it deteriorates. Dacron and canvas just peel off.
Not much to do with religion but your wooden canoe should not need an afterlife anywhere but the water. Forever!
I am now running away in horror.. I thought Halloween was over...!
Hekki could only use an axe on polyester resins to peel them off the wooden base.
http://www.innegratech.com/file/1026923722resincompatabilitymatrix2014aug.pdf
Not following all of it but there does not seem to be any polyester.. I see lots of epoxies..all of which will turn your lovely wooden hull into a porcupine when anyone tries a broad axe. Including Heikki!
Brad I've been keeping my eye on you and you're about due.
Oh Rippy, you always crack me up! I was kinda hoping my name change might've shaken the mad (and angry) Finn off my trail.
So, tell me. What do you think about a cedar/Innegra hybrid canoe? The best of both worlds, or an ugly mutant? I admit to having no idea about the actual do ability. Just thinking out loud and via a keyboard. Maybe not the best idea I've ever had.
So we build a form and make a thin composite hull to the actual shape of whatever w/c canoe you own. Then we drop the boat into the finished hull, screw on the gunwales and have an instant wood/composite canoe without any future adhesion issues or resin to pick out of planking gaps. Easy repairs for either part, take out the screws, separate the two pieces, do repairs, put back together.
You could be on to something here Brad.
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