Looking forward very much to seeing how this goes, as it is on my bucket list.
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Happy Apple Cider Day! 🍎🍵
GP build
- Thread starter Alan Gage
- Start date
I didn't realize we were talking carbon and kevlar in this thread. The canoe is looking great Alan. If it's not too late cheap hair spray over the wax makes a pretty good mold release. I hope you're leaving the stems open. If you do you should have no problem removing the shell from the mold.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/mold-re...-and-hairspray
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/mold-re...-and-hairspray
I'll be starting another thread for that project.
I was planning to close them. I was worried about the stems releasing hard since it's a tight wrap and there won't be any flex, so I'm planning to run flash tape along the stems and shear line to ensure non-stick in those areas. From there, since it's a constantly flared hull, I was hoping I could just lift it off. If that sounds like flawed thinking I'm all ears.
So far lots of wax and hang wringing. I'll spray it with PVA and prayers before I start laminating.
Alan
If you close the ends your going to have a wood core boat with a very thick outer skin. On the first canoe that I sealed the ends, I tried for a couple days to free it with four people tugging at it, compressed air, pry bars, etc. I ended up taking a sledge hammer to the station forms and I've never looked back. Now I just destroy the mold if the ends are pre sealed. I couldn't get the guideboat off either and there isn't a boat with more flare.
If you do seal the ends I've got two suggestions that could just maybe work. Bolt your strongback to the floor and use some fence pullers or block and tackles attached to your shop joists to crane it off. Or, remove the cedar shell from the station forms and hope it's flexible enough to wiggle out like that.
Also, the first release of any mold is the hardest, after a few runs on the same mold it gets easier.
I guess if you can't get it off, worst case you can saw the ends back open.
Good luck. We'll all be rooting for you.
If you do seal the ends I've got two suggestions that could just maybe work. Bolt your strongback to the floor and use some fence pullers or block and tackles attached to your shop joists to crane it off. Or, remove the cedar shell from the station forms and hope it's flexible enough to wiggle out like that.
Also, the first release of any mold is the hardest, after a few runs on the same mold it gets easier.
I guess if you can't get it off, worst case you can saw the ends back open.
Good luck. We'll all be rooting for you.
One other idea. If you can heat the shell and cool the plug it might pop off. The problem is the shell shrinks onto the plug as it cures. When you're talking about 16 feet shrinking down it just latches onto those stems harder than you can believe.
I'd thought about that as a backup plan. Probably wouldn't be too tough considering none of the kevlar will wrap the ends, only two layers of fiberglass and one of carbon, so it should cut pretty easily. But cutting too deep will necessitate some repair work to the wood hull underneath. Maybe better to play it safe.
Alan
I've pulled a composite boat of a male mold with with out cutting the ends. It popped of pretty easy for me, but it was a whitewater design with a lot of flare. You'll obviously get a stronger boat but laying up the ends with the rest of the boat.
Are you going to put in a core or ribs after you pull it off? I piece of good advice I was given (and didn't heed) was to put peel ply against the mold where the ribs or core will go. That way when you pull the boat off you have a bondable surface with no sanding.
I've found that if you can get some water in between the mold and the piece it makes it pull a lot easier (if you're using PVA) The PVA will dissolve, and open up a tiny amount of space between the mold and the part.
Quinn
Are you going to put in a core or ribs after you pull it off? I piece of good advice I was given (and didn't heed) was to put peel ply against the mold where the ribs or core will go. That way when you pull the boat off you have a bondable surface with no sanding.
I've found that if you can get some water in between the mold and the piece it makes it pull a lot easier (if you're using PVA) The PVA will dissolve, and open up a tiny amount of space between the mold and the part.
Quinn
I'm going without a core on this one since it's kind of a test piece before making a composite version of my Bloodvein solo for serious tripping. I want that one to be really tough so this one will help me get a feel for how many layers I need. There will be partials of carbon and kevlar reinforcements in different parts of the hull but I'm going to lay them all up before pulling it off the mold. I realize this isn't ideal as they'll show on the outside rather than the inside but I wanted to see how bad they actually were and if after peel ply over the final layer and a little sanding they might not disappear.
The peel ply against the mold is a good idea and I thought of doing that towards the stems since I know I'll be adding more layers there on the inside but in the end I got in a rush and started without. I can always kick myself later.
Time to start a proper thread for this 2nd project so we can move the conversation over there.
Alan
I know it's been a long time without a progress report and that you're all curious how things are going so here's an update:
20151220_001 by Alan, on Flickr
Look at those foxy new feathers! Peanut Butter is doing great and has been back with the flock for the past two weeks.
The canoe, now that it's done playing double duty as a mold, got the waxed stripped off (maybe) with Xylene and then sanded down in preparation for varnish, which will come later. This morning I took it off the forms and flipped it over. The inside has been sanded and needs just a little touch up in the bilge tomorrow and then fill in some gaps with thickened epoxy. Weighed in right at 30lbs, same as the composite version. The stripper will get a layer of 6oz. fiberglass inside and the composite hull will get a partial layer of 5oz. Kevlar plus extra reinforcements at the stems, inside and out. Good chance the hull weight will be less on the stripper as it will probably lose a couple pounds sanding the interior. Trim is where the weight will be cut on the composite version.
Supposed to be fairly warm all week so it will be a good time to kick up the heat in the shop as I have a lot of composite work coming up.
Alan
20151220_001 by Alan, on FlickrLook at those foxy new feathers! Peanut Butter is doing great and has been back with the flock for the past two weeks.
The canoe, now that it's done playing double duty as a mold, got the waxed stripped off (maybe) with Xylene and then sanded down in preparation for varnish, which will come later. This morning I took it off the forms and flipped it over. The inside has been sanded and needs just a little touch up in the bilge tomorrow and then fill in some gaps with thickened epoxy. Weighed in right at 30lbs, same as the composite version. The stripper will get a layer of 6oz. fiberglass inside and the composite hull will get a partial layer of 5oz. Kevlar plus extra reinforcements at the stems, inside and out. Good chance the hull weight will be less on the stripper as it will probably lose a couple pounds sanding the interior. Trim is where the weight will be cut on the composite version.
Supposed to be fairly warm all week so it will be a good time to kick up the heat in the shop as I have a lot of composite work coming up.
Alan
Not yet. I think it will be fine. Sounded like Xylene was a good wax remover and I hope that anything it missed was finished off with the sanding.
No kidding. Had big plans to work on boats but it was too nice to stay indoors all day. Lots of walking with Sadie.
Alan
Hoped to fiberglass the inside tonight but ran out of time. I did get the stems done though. I find it easier to place the stem cloth ahead of time as separate pieces. Makes it a lot easier and the seam is about invisible, especially since it's tucked out of the way in the stems.
20151222_003 by Alan, on Flickr
Alan
20151222_003 by Alan, on FlickrAlan
Boy this is gonna be another beautiful boat Alan.
Thanks, Brad. I think it's going to turn out nice. Excited to actually paddle this one. Well, at least the composite version.
Fiberglassing the inside went well:
20151223_001 by Alan, on FlickrAlan
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