First stripper build: Prospector-16 Help & comments appreciated

[Kliff]

Hadn't even thought of cleats for the seats Brian....I was going to hang them from the gunwales. So much for having everything figured out. I really like the way those cleats look. I saw that earlier on the solo build thread. Now it's back on the table. i guess I have about a week to figure it out. Just got the second inwale epoxied in, so MAYBE the outwales tomorrow.

 

[stripperguy]

Kliff,
Looks like you’re gonna be in the water before the water gets hard!
I bet you’re dying to try it out
Always such an exciting time
I bet you’re already planning the next one, just wait til you get it on the water. Be ready for all the questions:
What kind of canoe is that?
Was that a kit?
Did you build that?

 

[Kliff]

Yeah, I've been planning my next one since this one was half stripped. I've been keeping track of "lessons learned" along the way, and when I get it finalized, I'll share it. The biggie at this point is something Brian pointed out: It's much easier to clean up epoxy when it's still wet than when it gets hard. Check for drips, runs, squeeze out. Then check again. Just got my first outwale on. Didn't take any pictures along the way. I will for my second one. Can't do them both at once, I don't have enough clamps. I think it's going to look real good.

Yeah, I should have it in the water this fall, if only for a couple short paddles. Unfortunately, I'll be using store bought paddles this fall. I'm planning to make a few this winter, but I'm not waiting on paddles to try it out.

Now I've got Brian's cleats on the brain. Wasn't even seriously considering them until that post, now I'm leaning that way. If I hang 'em from the gunwales, I'll be at about 5" drop. That might not look as nice as cleats.

 

[Cruiser]

Sorry bout that ...

 

[Jim Dodd]

Just remember cleats are final ! Hanging your seats allows adjustment up and down.

On a tandem, I set the bow seat pretty level. The stern seat I set the front edge down 1/2 - 3/4". that makes the stern seat a little more comfortable. The bow seat should be level, so if you end up paddling solo ? It's still reasonably comfortable.

 

[Woodpuppy]

Just remember cleats are final ! Hanging your seats allows adjustment up and down.

On a tandem, I set the bow seat pretty level. The stern seat I set the front edge down 1/2 - 3/4". that makes the stern seat a little more comfortable. The bow seat should be level, so if you end up paddling solo ? It's still reasonably comfortable.

The way Cruiser built his cleats, it looks like he could raise the seats with shims/blocks if needed. But going down would be a problem. Do strippers ever have the adjustable height type seat hangers?

 

[Cruiser]

The way Cruiser built his cleats, it looks like he could raise the seats with shims/blocks if needed. But going down would be a problem. Do strippers ever have the adjustable height type seat hangers?

I was going to point out that raising seats is pretty easy with a cleat ... lowering not so much, however, lowering depends on the hull design to a degree, because the seat width is a natural limiter (unless you start chopping) as you approach the turn at the bilge.

I do think that cleats are a stronger seat mount, but they aren't for every situation.

 

[Kliff]

Here's how I'm doing my gunwales. I ripped a piece of stock for inwale and outwale, so color & grain match. Cut the scuppers out of the inwale, cut all of the tapers I wanted, then rabbeted the outwale to cover the strip edge. First photo shows the second side ready for glue-up. Second photo shows the completed gunwale. I'm also having the gunwales meet at a point that I'll round off, extending past the stem about 1/4" for a finished look. I'll glue the second outwale in tonight, hopefully get the decks done and installed in the next couple days.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Capping the shear, is how I do mine !
Totally sealing the wood and glass.

Good call, and well done !

Jim

 

[RickR]

The tapered in and out wales are a really nice touch. Beautiful!

 

[Cruiser]

Looking good, I hear a future splash not to long now

 

[Kliff]

Just glued the last outwale on. I tried something I haven't seen posted anywhere. It's easier to look at the pictures, but I painted the outwale with epoxy except for the 1/4" edge that meets the inwale. I ran a bead of Titebond III on the inwale, and clamped it. The picture looks like there's glue on the top edge of the strip, but there isn't. That's glare from the lighting. Had what I would consider a good amount of squeeze out of the wood glue. Wanted to eliminate the thin line caused by epoxy gluing. Should be invisible after sanding. I'm then going to paint the gunwale with a coat of epoxy prior to varnish.

I could probably take the clamps off after a couple hours, and the wood glue would hold it in place. I'm not that risky.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I just used epoxy with filler , instead of Titebond, for the whole thing
Was there some reason you thought Titebond would be better than epoxy ?

 

[RickR]

Nice idea to use Titebond III at that location. Visible glue lines are what irritate me most about epoxy glue.

 

[Jim Dodd]

It's not about the glue. But rather the gap between the wood.

Wood glue doesn't fill a gap any better than filled epoxy !

 

[Cruiser]

It's not about the glue. But rather the gap between the wood.

Wood glue doesn't fill a gap any better than filled epoxy !

Actually, most of the wood glues have very little gap filling ability, which is where the epoxy shines ... so concur completely JIm

Nice idea to use Titebond III at that location. Visible glue lines are what irritate me most about epoxy glue.

If you use plain epoxy, the line you see is actually a shadow of the gap and you are looking through the epoxy into the joint ... it does look as if it is a dark line, but it is really shadow.
If you tint the epoxy with wood dust tilll it has a similar colour to the wetted wood, you can actually custom colour match far better than what a wood glue provides.

 

[RickR]

If I need gap filling in a glued assembly I'll reach for epoxy every time.

If I want to visually minimize a glue line and don't need gap filling or long working time I'll choose one of the Titebonds.

It's nice to have choices!

Rick

 

[Kliff]

Actually, from everything I've read, and prior experience, epoxy needs a gap. Total closure of the gap does not provide a suitable bond. Wood glues do not need this, that's why I went with wood glue for the top visible edge. The inwale and outwale were cut from the same piece of wood, and machined so that hopefully after sanding there will be NO visible line. That's my goal. We'll see. I haven't sanded yet, but one side looks awesome, the other side looks like I may have flipped either in or out wale early on in the machining process. The grain doesn't seem to match in a couple spots. We'll see after sanding.

Either way, I'll know tonight. I'm certain it was either worth the time and a brilliant idea, or neither of those. So far, my track record isn't great on discovering that "hidden gem" of a canoe building technique. As with most every woodworking project I've ever done, there will certainly be "beauty marks" that no one but the builder ever notices.

 

[stripperguy]

Ultimately, it’s a functional piece of hardware that you built yourself. It’s gonna be way better than a production boat since you’ve put your blood sweat and tears in it, never mind the cost savings.
Who cares if it has “beauty marks” or accumulates some scars, that all tell a story.
As I always say “betcha can’t build just one!”
I’m enjoying your attention to detail, and the quality of your build
Nice work

 

[Kliff]

I don't know about cost savings.....but I didn't start this project to save money. I have thoroughly enjoyed the project. I've built half mil houses in less time.

One of the aspects I really appreciate having gotten most of the way through my first build is this: You can get rather "ham handed" as someone put it, or you can go my route and get a bit too obsessed with the little details. You can fall anywhere in between. You can have access to the best tools around, or build with a rather minimal wood shop. In any case, you're going to end up with a very serviceable canoe, that many will admire.

Canoe building seems to be alot like Lays potato chips....No one can build just one.