• Happy National Pfeffernusse Day! ⚪🇩🇪😋

First Solo

Karin I'm no flower expert but it sorta looks like a very nice orchid. Most orchids are in the North. Maybe you can google it.

if someone snuck up on me like that I would say it , do it and leave. People scare me way more than critters. Especially me. I scare me. I hear growls.. Especially in an area as quiet as WCPP, the sounds of my own intestines digesting scare the well you know what out of me.

I am scared of my own bowel sounds.
 
I suspect that if you (any of us) live long enough you will collect a certain amount of "wooly boogers" that come slithering out at inopportune times. Mine combined with getting pretty deaf make me grateful to have my dog along. All my dogs have very quickly assumed the position of watch- the- camp dogs. And I keep one eye on the dog. I won't have a dumb dog and if the dogs isn't worried about some noise I'll pass on it too.
But let that same dog let out a low growl and stares at something beyond the light of the campfire, it sure does feel good to have my shotgun right to hand.

That guy that surprised Robin might have been surprised too, but a person ought to use all the caution you can when you don't know the person. You just don't know what they might have been through. They might be nice as pie but if startled do some hasty action that everybody will regret.

Mihun, it's nice you talk about getting the willies, that's pretty darn brave in my book, helps me feel less of a sissy too!

Glad things are gently looking up for Christine,

Best Wishes, Rob
 
Honesty is the best policy always and admitting I'm a partial bubble off just helps others to know how to deal with me. :eek:

We spoke about getting me certified to carry, but handguns are not allowed at all and weapons in general are not permitted in the parks up here. Crown Land likely a different story but our tripping is in established parks. Honestly, being armed out there I would likely do more damage to myself.

I could get a tripping cat maybe, I'm partial to cats.

Once I figure out how to discern weather changes based on the changing tones of my tinnitus, I will be better prepared, but I may never be able to solo and I am somewhat prepared for that prospect. Regardless of experience, logic and a solid base of common sense, not everyone is capable of going solo.
 
Honesty is the best policy always and admitting I'm a partial bubble off just helps others to know how to deal with me. :eek:

Karin welcome to the half a bubble off club and honesty is the best policy. Glad to hear that Christine got out I was wondering how she was doing. I periodically challenge my fears so that my boundary's don't keep closing in more each year. Solo wilderness tripping for me is a stretch mentally but I fell free'r going back home than on the way up. It changes me for a time before it wears back off and I go on another trip. I stand a little taller, feel a little bolder and more confident. I'm 56 years old and between trips I buy into some limitations because of aches and pains. After a trip I always smile and tell myself "I guess I'm not dead yet".

Karin be safe, but don't let fears win and take you prisoner. Because they will if you let them.
Dave, chapter president, 3/4 bubble off.
 
Well Mihun, Given the restrictions on firearms and your reservations, maybe a reasonable plan B would be to consider a small axe; that Wettering's Forester's Axe is certainly light and maneuverable. Also a very underestimated tool is the quarter staff//walking stick. You remember Robin Hood and little John and the log over the stream? And it gives a third point of support while going over treacherous ground.

Dave's post above, is full of good points, I sure hear that "boundary's closing in more each year" business. The funny thing is that I find my fears pushing me to fall back before reality requires it.

About that Tripping Cat, you're going to see Mem. It's my understanding he's got a cat of formidable qualifications. Maybe there's a litter of kittens and you can get one. Just remember to bring your welders gloves and an industrial grade crate. I'd hate to be going down the road and have that cat get loose at sixty miles at hour.

Best Wishes, Rob
 
Rippy: Glad to see I at least make it into an exclusive club, the half bubble off, not quite the solo tripping club yet. I know all about the boundary's closing in, anxiety and panic attacks aside from clinical depression and an over active imagination don't help much with that, but my free world is shrinking yearly. Like honestly, did they have to make "That bridge" so freaking long and high and why is that other bridge so danged skinny? Just getting out there is half the battle for me.

Christine's GP is a canoeist as well so he can understand our needs much better. His restriction is to not go further than 24 hours to get help, but I imagine even that would be too far. So far she hasn't needed to use her nitro and I am willing to do the brunt of the work to not tax her physically. She is due to go back to work in a week or two so we shall see how that goes. We do have a trip planned first week of September to get her out again, limited portaging.

I'll be 53 in a month, Christine will be 56 in two months.

OM: The problem I have had with cats in the past is they like to wander into the bush and who knows what they will bring back with them. I've been carrying bangers the last couple of years on my belt, with a folding knife, and this year got spray to compliment it. I keep it handy but in a ziplock in case it decides to fire itself. I doubt I would keep it in the tent at night, that would be the last place I would want to shoot it off or have it go off accidentally. That would properly season me for da bear.

Small axe will be on future trips once I get my load managed better.

There was a issue in Manitoba last year where a group of young adults were doing the Bloodvein and one was bearanoid and had a long gun. One of his pals was messing around outside the tent one night and well, the armed one shot and killed his friend "through" the tent, without even looking. That scenario is something I would like to avoid.

There have not been any reported bear attacks in Manitoba. I can rationalize all I want that logically it isn't ever going to happen, but then the mind just stomps logic into the ground. I would say the whole bear thing is what freaks me out the most. Having seen that Cougar a couple years ago didn't help much as that gets brought into the mix now too. :eek:
 
Some further thoughts on bears. Some folks find comfort in giving statistics of how low your chances are of a bear attack. Mathematically that may be true, but to me it doesn't mean do-da.
The bear really doesn't hate a person, he's just hungry, it's nothing personal. He's an opportunistic feeder and let's face it we look like an easy opportunity. From the bears perspective who would you want to take on; a moose or a person? But by vigorously defending ourselves we dramatically change the "easy meal" equation.
Maybe a way to think about it is to consider the porcupine: he'll never be able to kill any of his attackers but he can make it cost them. Now it's not a perfect defense but by and large it works, otherwise there wouldn't be any porcupines.

About the bear spray: That stuff doesn't discharge itself, no way no how. But if it did, then the plastic bag would immediately pop anyway. The only thing the bag will do is to make it hard to get to quickly. And that's bad news.

One of the leading manufacturers of bear spray offers a dummy spray can (it sprays out just like the real stuff W/O the cough, choke) that would give you a chance to experience just what it takes to shoot it off and how far does it go and so on. Anything that a person uses in a serious time like this you really ought to have skill and confidence in the tool, what ever it is.

The guy who shot the other one......what can you say, stupid is spelled so many ways. Let me observe that the gun did what it was supposed to do.

Best Wishes, Rob
 
You do not have to defend yourself from eastern black bears. They are timid animals and are more afraid of us than we are of them. Yes, they get hungry - that (and chipmunks) is why it's important to keep a clean camp. But anyone who goes into the woods with anything more than spray to deal with a black bear is entertaining fantasies about them that aren't based in reality. If you want to learn what bears are really like, spend some time on the Wildlife Research Institute's website http://www.bearstudy.org/website/ as well as the North American Bear Center http://www.bear.org/website/. If you want to feel manly or perpetuate myths about bears, you can ignore 40 years of study and bring guns, traps, etc. to deal with a nonexistent threat. Your choice.
 
Gavia while the statistics are definitely leaning that we should be more worried about lightning over bears, the threat is far from non existent in the Midwest and East. This is just the fatalities.. Ontario has had its share of bear caused injuries.. If those happened on a canoe trip the results could be quite unhappy to say the least.

Your clean camp matters less than what the last camper did in the camp. Bears come by habit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

With that background , alone out there our factual knowledge can succumb pretty easily.

You do have to have some plan of defense in mind.. Bears are running out of habitat. We are moving in and taking away their food source. A hungry bear is not a happy bear. Ask the folks around Orlando FL this year.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...florida-attack-habitat-wildlife-conservation/

I do think the chances of an adverse attack are more in suburbs where you have people and bear living close together.
 
I said EASTERN black bear. Nearly all the examples in that Wikipedia page are WESTERN.
I'd rather people educated themselves (e.g., via the links I provided) than continue to propagate outdated information.
I'd also rather people took a "Ready, Aim, Fire" approach to conversations, rather than the "Ready, Fire (Aim?)" approach so commonly seen.
 
Now, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box but I thought that Eastern or Western we were still talking about black bears? Are their two different types of black bears? with different behavioral characteristics?
Maybe those in the east have been exposed to more refined cutural input whereas those in the west have been raised up with Coors, pickup trucks and country&western? Now thinking on it; if that were true, the rascally western bears ought to bite liberals more often than just regular folks.

Well, this is all too much for me, I just hope you all stay safe. And if worst comes to worst then I hope you have a plan and it works for you.

Best Wishes, Rob
 
Hi Mihun09,

Stick with it, it will smooth out with experience.

When I started backpacking, I learned some hard and lessons about packing lighter. This was good training which helped me lighten my canoe load somewhat for canoe tripping. In canoeing, everything is heavier and bulkier because of dry bag requirements, plus paddles, life jackets, canoe, repair kit, fishing gear (fry pan, gotta have a fry pan! :) , etc.) Hikers don’t have to deal with bilge water in the canoe and immersed packs. So our load is bulkier and heavier. I just add extra carries to portage trails. If I am under a week, I can manage with 2 carries using a 30L barrel T’d up over my big gear pack, but with 2-3 weeks I am using a 60L barrel doing 3 carries, and a month or more I am using 2 60L barrels and taking 4 carries. Its not a problem because one just adjusts the style of the trip - there is definitely no hurry. As a woman your frame will be lighter than the average man of similar height, so add a carry or two or three if you need to, there is no need to keep up with the muscleheads who brag about how fast they are. I am only 5’4” and the thought of a single carry is alien to me. I can’t do it. I know the single carry heroes will likely have back and knee and hip problems when they are older carrying too heavy of loads. Recall tortoise-hare stories. I am closer to the tortoise. I am approaching mid 50’s and I have good joints, maybe because I did not do single carries, (I do 2,3,4 carries depending on the trip) and I am planning to solo trip well into my 70’s at this rate.

I find much of the literature is obsessed with time and so-called efficiency. When I am on a canoe trip, I am on vacation and take my time when I want, and hammer down to make K’s when I want. I also plan in flex time in case I get behind schedule and need an extra day or two. Plan your own trip and don’t let someone else’s travel rate standards dictate to you.

Re bears: I disagree with Gavia’s post. Eastern vs. western black bear is an erroneous distinction biologically. I have 4 colleagues here who have been attacked by a predatory black bear in Ontario. Three fought them off with spray and other tactics, including big sticks, and one was taken down, partially ripped up, and was saved by her co-worker who stabbed the bear and held it off with aggressive behaviour and slashing that knife, and she was heli-vac’d and barely made it. They did not have bear spray. But we also know that bear spray may only buy you a few minutes of retreat from a determined bear. That said, the odds are very very low you will be bothered by a predatory bear, and a vehicle accident en route is far more likely.

You need to steel your mind and then things get comfortable. You are a fearsome predator, descended from fearsome predator ancestors, and are only here because our ancestors could and did kill everything in their path. A bear who messes with you will bleed and think twice because you will fight back with a blade and everything you have. I suggest adding a fixed blade knife with finger guard to your personal weapon arsenal. Its recommended as standard kit by my employer (Ont Gov’t). Bangers are very useful, I have mine on me at all times, and have used them effectively many times, with black and grizzly bears. I also have a can of bear spray on me at all times, including in the tent. Don’t worry it will not discharge with the safety fitting on it. I carry an extra can now in the barrel, after my friend last year emptied a can on a determined bear, even when he was rationing each of 4 bursts – the bear kept coming.

Steel your mind and relax knowing that the odds are incredibly in your favour. Our ancestors steeled their minds in a life with no safety net and no guarantees, that’s how they lived every day. Also, there is nothing really sacred about my or your life. We are mortals and when our time comes, it comes, and then we are compost. No big deal. By being out in the bush and canoe tripping, you are truly living well, and its well worth it, every single freakin’ second. Don’t let fear spoil it and stay in the city all year where its “safe”.

There is an old saying: “If you are afraid of dieing, you better not be afraid to live”. In other words, life is short, old age and decline and death are inevitable, so don’t be afraid, embrace life and life it to the full, and don’t let the bears deter you. The bears should fear you. Be fierce like our ancestors – carry weapons of your choice, (knife, axe, bangers, spray, other), you are a fearsome human, and natural selection has made most instinctive behaviours in big animals to run from us, because any animal that does not was dispatched and eaten by us, genes not passed on. You are fearsome, live that way. Yes the occasional bear very rarely will test our resolve, so be prepared, and thrive. I have had many bear encounters and always acted assertive, never subordinate, and they all ran. I await the final predatory encounter, but it likely won’t happen. If it does, whatever, everyone’s time comes. No sense missing out on canoe trips. Go get’em!
 
So much time is spent obsessing about bears. Its really funny, I have canoe friends from southern Ontario who are against guns, but expect me to bring one when we go canoe tripping up here. When going solo, I sometimes take a gun, but it's just another tool, one I'm familiar with and use frequently. I have no faith in bear spray, having suffered back draft from it before, which caused me to immediately vomit and become incapacitated. The bear bangers I have travel around 100 feet before they explode, causing me to think that they will explode behind the bear, driving him toward me. I like guns, use them lots, and travel in areas where there are very few people. I have never had to shoot at a bear and probably will never have to….but carrying a gun up here is not unusual. In fact, there are many who do it year round. It's all about time and place, what is acceptable in one area might be strange or even forbidden somewhere else.
 
Well friends, I don't carry my shotgun because I want to feel manly or perpetuate myths. I gave up trying to feel manly some time ago, I'd really be content to hurt a little less in the morning when I start to get going. About the "myths" , Any more it seems that everyone is beating on his own drum and not listening to anybody else, whether it's politics or discussion on bears.
I really don't like fights and am at a loss to explain how they've become so popular.

I'll be reading in detail the sources provided by Gavia (above) I'm sure there are buckets of things I could learn about bears. Shoot! There are buckets of things I can learn about my dogs, and we spend our whole lives together.
But bears can and do hurt people and a reasonable person will take note of the fact.

I cringe when there is a report of somebody getting shot like Mihun quoted in this thread. I hate to see road sighs shot to bits or picnic tables riddled with holes. Those are the 'drunk drivers' among the gun owners. We all drive and I doubt very much if we'd consider giving up our cars because there are things like drunk drivers on the road we all share.

If the time ever comes where I have to shoot a bear (and I sincerely hope it never happens) then I've got several problems. I've got to report it to the park service or fish and game and I don't know who all else. And I've got to prove up why I had to do it, to somebody who wasn't there and may very well hate gun owners for starters. And then there is the three hundred pounds of dead bear to deal with. In a week or two the dead bear will attract all kinds of scavengers (maybe other bears) and what if some human stumbles on to the site? Nope, it's my responsibility to clean it up. Now after all that if you think I'm some trigger happy nut you've got rocks in your head.

This next won't be new to many of you, but I think it's important and would like to share it. All of the pump shotguns I've ever heard of have a magazine for four shells, in mine I load only three and leave one yet to be loaded.
There is an outfit "Lightfield LLR Inc." they make various rubber slug shotgun shells that are designed to be painful but not penetrate or kill the animal. You can read about it on their web site.
If I have a threatening bear situation, and have the luxury of distance and time to load into that fourth space a Lightfield Less Leathal shell, I may be able to chase off the bear and avoid the whole mess of shooting him dead. But if the bear proves resolute in trying to get to me, then I'll kill him with the three already loaded.

In our lives we learn how to work many tools, as Memaquay said guns are just another tool. A serious tool to be sure but not deserving of the whole hate mythology that surrounds guns and their operators.

Best Wishes, Rob
 
Before this devolves into a bear or gun thread, let's just stop. I did say earlier my bearanoia is "irrational" as logic dictates the odds of a bear attack are slim. Does it happen? Yes. In 6 Summers of tripping in Manitoba we have only "seen" a bear once, as it swam out to the island we were camped on. I'm sure had it known we were out there it wouldn't have swam all that way at that time. We see plenty of signs, tracks, poop, opened anthills that are still moist, but we never see the bear, but I bet he/she sees us as we go by. The cougar we saw was in Ontario along the border, but that is another matter.

The fear is in my mind which is a horrible place to explore. I will either get over it and solo, or not and live vicariously through everyones trip reports.

I have no desire to try to make single carries ever, just ain't gonna happen, but I do need to try to get my kit down to a manageable load not only for carrying but also to lessen the boat load. I found the canoe sluggish with the weight despite the fact it was still riding rather high in the water. I was using our Raven carbon bent which I could paddle with all day over my favourite cherry laminate ottertail. It was only the second trip using that boat so I still have to learn it. I'm sure there aren't many of you who would even consider tripping in a 14 foot Chestnut w/c.

I "could" drop a center seat in my kevlar Mattawa, but there are enough holes in the foam rails as it is and there is no way I could just use the kneeling thwart all the time, besides, at 37 wide it can be tough to paddle and it blows around way too easy.

I'll keep working at it and figure something out and plan perhaps a single overnighter instead of something more epic. Once step, one night at a time.

Karin
 
I did say earlier my bearanoia is "irrational" as logic dictates the odds of a bear attack are slim.

The fear is in my mind which is a horrible place to explore.

This is a very important point about fear: it can be rational or irrational. Nevertheless, irrational fears are just as real, and just as biochemically hormonal, as are rational fears to those who suffer therefrom.

I have suffered anxiety attacks -- almost always irrational -- for 45 years. One is acrophobia, fear of heights. Neither you nor I can "intellectualize" me out of an acrophobic attack; the fear hormones are pumping no matter how much my brain says otherwise. A much lesser fear is an agoraphobic one of being alone on wide open waters. This is not helpful for a canoeing or kayaking hobby. However, it's a minor irrational fear that I can control, mainly by staying relatively near shore and concentrating on my paddling.

The fears of snakes and bears are, to me, partly rational and partly irrational. Mankind didn't evolve fears and revulsion against these creatures throughout the ages because of irrational myths. Rather, they evolved these fears because of practical, violent and deadly experiences living among all the creatures of the wild. Black bears are now for the most part timid when encountering man in no small part because our ancestors culled out the aggressive bear genes by killing them regularly.

Nevertheless, Professor Stephen Herrero's most recent study -- which I believe is necessarily based on extremely incomplete data -- reports an accelerating rate of human deaths from black bears, currently about two per year, virtually all of which are cause by a small minority of predatory male black bears who deliberately and silently stalk humans for the very purpose of killing. It is very rational to take whatever precautions you are comfortable with regarding bears, regardless of the irrationality component of the total bear fears you may have.
 
Nevertheless, Professor Stephen Herrero's most recent study -- which I believe is necessarily based on extremely incomplete data -- reports an accelerating rate of human deaths from black bears, currently about two per year, virtually all of which are cause by a small minority of predatory male black bears who deliberately and silently stalk humans for the very purpose of killing.

When I was first starting to travel to areas with bears I started doing research. As I was reading about the differences between black and grizzly bears one piece of advice I remember stated that if you're getting mauled by a grizzly your best odds are to play dead and not fight back since many grizzly attacks aren't based on hunger but rather territory, protecting their young, or maybe they just don't like the looks of you. They're more inclined to rough you up a bit and then move on if you're just lying there.

A black bear that attacks, however, is generally motivated by hunger and a strong desire to eat you. So if you get attacked by a black bear you're best odds are to defend yourself to the last. They also said that in most instances of fatal or near fatal black bear attacks the victim never saw them coming. The bears were stalking them for food, not trying to intimidate them in order to steal their picnic basket. Not the most comforting thought but one I can file towards the back of my head when out tripping.

Thankfully I haven't had a chance to test either method with either species of bear so I can't confirm or deny their effectiveness.

Alan
 
Now, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box but I thought that Eastern or Western we were still talking about black bears? Are their two different types of black bears? with different behavioral characteristics?
Maybe those in the east have been exposed to more refined cutural input whereas those in the west have been raised up with Coors, pickup trucks and country&western? Now thinking on it; if that were true, the rascally western bears ought to bite liberals more often than just regular folks.

Well, this is all too much for me, I just hope you all stay safe. And if worst comes to worst then I hope you have a plan and it works for you.

Best Wishes, Rob

Yes, there are two different types of black bears. The eastern black bears evolved in forested environments with trees all around. Trees, of course, are a black bear's primary means of avoiding danger. So they naturally escape instead of attack. When they do attack, it's almost always a bluff charge, followed by running away, teeth clacking (a sign of fear) and climbing or running toward the nearest tree.

Western black bears evolved in the same environment as brown (i.e., grizzly) bears - few trees suitable for climbing. Consequently, they evolved a similarly more-aggressive approach to self-protection.

This is a theory developed by a Pennsylvania wildlife manager who has spent a career working with bears. Sorry, I can't give you his name - I don't work in that area any more.
 
HOOP, your post (#52 above) actually agrees with me with perhaps very slight exception. Not that agreement makes either one of us right, but your comments about assertiveness and the rarity of (eastern) black bear attacks are exactly what I've been saying. Thanks.
 
Ok, since I am geographically exactly in the middle of the Canada, I will assume these bears are confused as to which they are, Eastern or Western and in their confusion they will sit down and think on it rather than attack me. ;)
 
Back
Top