First build 17' Freedom

[Ben Mahaffey]

So i finally got started on my first canoe build. I have gotten the stong back build and all of my strips ready and now on to the glue up phase. I was able to score 2 18 foot 2x8s on Craigslist so i will not have to scarf anything. Got a few addional sticks of rough cut cedar from menards for the foot ball.

The plan, for not at least, is to do everything stapleless. It will be a bit slow going but think it will look nice.

Any input on tricks or things i am forgetting let me know!

Will try and get pictures up but they are too big to upload from my phone any tricks to do this?

 

[Mihun09]

Not that it will help much, but I edit my photo's in a specific program (Lightroom 5), save them at 800 X 600 then put them in PhotoBucket and then copy and paste from there.

I much prefer staple free building as well but sometimes you have to break down and use them for stubborn strips. First time I routered a notch in the forms about an inch from the outside edge and then used spring clamps to hold them against the forms. Also use fibre tape and pieces of 1/4" dowel to pull the strips together, works if you are building cove up. The tape will last awhile and just move it or replace as needed. I have to have a photo somewhere. I have also used small finishing nails with a little piece of strip to hold to forms, the single hole is less obtrusive than staple holes.

Karin

 

[Ben Mahaffey]

No Title

Ok i think i have gotten the file size down. Here are some in no particular order,strongback and form setting. Along with the strips the mess and another reason why the canoe has not been going very fast. The SUP is something that is almost done, i seem to have a habit of starting too many projects and/or not getting one done before i start the next

 

[Cruiser]

Ben, you are going to really enjoy the build, I just finished my Freedom late last year ... keep the pics rolling.

Mihun, I am with you, staple-less is my preference as well .....


Brian

 

[Alan Gage]

Someone needs to be the contrarian in thread so I'll share my favorite building motto: Mo' staples is mo' betta

Most of my canoes get used pretty hard. By the end of a trip some little black staple holes are the least of their aesthetic issues. I've actually started painting the last few inside and out so now it really isn't an issue.

Alan

 

[Sven]

I agree with Alan. If you make it so pretty that you are afraid to scratch it, you might as well put it in a museum.

 

[Sven]

I'm not trying to discourage you, I am pragmatic about building things.

More power to the patience!

 

[Mihun09]

For Alan and others they prefer a staple diet.

The ugly part of my Jack's Special, to me at least, is the staple holes.

The dead of Winter in Manitoba... it does not matter how slow I work on a boat. Besides, I enjoy building them.

It isn't necessarily How you build them, just that you Do build them.

The fact I have imperfections in the Jack's means I get to build another, and, Christy's new w/c is too heavy for her, so we build her something and go lightweight, shooting for under 50 pounds.

 

[stripperguy]

Ben,
Thanks for posting those photos, good to see that your strips are parallel to the waterline, you boat will look better on the water because of that.
I won't comment on staples vs stapleless, it's a personal choice, like whether or not to go commando.

I'm curious to know if this forum and its collection of builders has been an inspiration for your choice to build? Or has it been a lifelong desire to build and you stumbled on this forum in a search for guidance?

In any case, looks like you've overcome the biggest obstacle, you've started! Looking forward to seeing more photos and more progress. I would mention that it's hard to build just one, but it seems you already have our common affliction...

 

[Ben Mahaffey]

Thabks for all the feed back already guys! As for staple vs stapleless i just think the lack of kittle snake bites all over the boat looks better to me. Alan i do really like how a strip canoe looks and the paint i think would take that away. That being said the boat is no where near down and i may be eating my words a few strips in if i break out the stapler!

Stripperguy i have been building paddleboards and surf boards for a few years now and have been planning a canoe for a while, just atumbled on this site about a year ago and have been getting great ideas from the community here. It has been great figuring out ways that i may want to use and just seeing the craftsmanship of everyone here.

As for how i am running the strips i was actually thinking about running parallel to the waterline until i got to the gunnels and then run a strip at that contour and fill in the two triangles on either side...opinions?

Also if anyone has suggestions on lay up...debating on 4oz vs 6oz s glass. I am thinking a 6oz e glass then a 4oz s glass football. Will be using the boat for everthing from flatwater rivers in wi and mn to bwca so i am looking for light but durable. Almost thinking about over building for piece of mind. By the way the strips are 3/16" so a bit of weight savings there

Ben

 

[Jim Dodd]

Great Start Ben
Every builder will give you different methods. I already see things I wouldn't do, that you have already done.
That's OK ! It's YOUR canoe !

One question ! Did you bead and cove your strips !

My first builds were with beveled strips. I real pain in my opinion ! I would lift my canoe over head, and see all the daylight shining through ! I hated that ! But you know ? They float just as good as the hulls I built with bead and coved strips, with no daylight shining through !

Beveling strips, took me longer, and was more difficult to build !

I'm a staple, bead and cove, follow the shearline with my first strip, 6 oz, double layer bottom, flotation chamber kinda a guy !
Thanks for sharing your build with us !
Keep those pics a coming !

Jim

PS. I'd rather carry a canoe that was 5# heavier over a portage, than have to bail water every other stroke, as I tried to make it to shore, from the middle of a lake !

 

[wysedav]

Hey I built one of those!!

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...-discussions/diy/18927-freedom-17-strip-build

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Cruiser]

I wasn't going to post my build, but Wysedav did, so I will as well .....

http://buildersforum.bearmountainboats.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2244

One thing I like about building is the creative process and the myriad of decisions required to reach the end of the process .... I also like to try new stuff for each build and continue the learning process. As far as the boat looking good (I believe "too pretty" was used in a previous post) ... I think that just reflects the builders vision ... the techniques and designs employed are usually to support that end goal vision. That's the great thing about building your own .... you get to make the decisions .... you get to totally customize to your ride.

If you like the look of stapleless, then that's what you should do .... you have a vision for the canoe, follow that and figure out the best way to make that dream a reality ... there is nothing quite like starting a trip in a craft you built, and if that boat makes you smile, then so much the better.

For me, the most important thing is to take the time to enjoy the build, and take lots of pictures and when you can't have some one else take lots of pictures ... you will enjoy those .... and share some of them with "we who are between builds".

Brian

 

[Ben Mahaffey]

Jim- yes most definitely using bead and cove. That is what i have used for my surf and paddle boards to round the rails, transitioningfrom the bottom of the board to the top. It maes working with curves so nice and pretty easy.

I will have to remind myself of you quote about carrying a few more poind vs bailing out my boat when it comes to ordering my glass

Wysedav i stumbled upon your build this winter and saw that it was a freedom too! That boat is awesome, thinking about having some cool looking strips for the bottom s your boat served as a bit of an inspiration for that.

Brian i looked through yours too another beautiful craft! I get looking at all these boats and think, oh boy thats a good idea ill try that and that and that, the list goes on and on. Looks like i may need to convince my wife that we need a larger garage .

I have been thinking about making some tractor style seats, maybe just fiberglass mold layup and having a cleat system verses a hanging seat as i am looking at cherry gunnels that will be scuppered and hopefully a bit smaller to keep the weight down. Anyone have any tips for cleat mounting? Big pros/cons that i may be over looking?

Ben

 

[Cruiser]

For the cleat idea, look through Wysedav build, he made up some fiberglass ones that I thought were good, good enough that I plan on using the idea on my next build.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...ssions/diy/36953-northwest-passage-solo/page9

Brian

 

[stripperguy]

Ben,

I've switched from hull mounted cleats to a bottom mounted pedestal mostly for adjustability and the increased mobility. I also recently used an Alan Gage carbon fiber tractor seat...it was comfy for me for 6 hours of paddling.
When I was still using hull mounted cleats, I would just stick them on with some Cabosil thickened epoxy. When I was still working, I did some testing of such a cleat in single shear, just as it would be in the application. Mahogany cleat failed (not the joint) at a little over 300 lbs! If I'm not too lazy, I'll look up the thread with the data plots.

Edit:
I guess I wasn't that lazy after all. Go to post #32 in link below

link

 

[Ben Mahaffey]

Stripperguy- thanks for the data with that i know i have seen those figures somewhere in the past on this site. Do you have any pictures of your pedestal mount? I have seen a few boats with it but mostly the guys who are making composite boats and have carbon rails to make the pedestal. Would want something a bit more simple if i can. Does yours adjust? That may also be nice for the front to trim it out as i need

 

[Alan Gage]

I also recently used an Alan Gage carbon fiber tractor seat...it was comfy for me for 6 hours of paddling.

I'm glad the seat is working out well for you. I always liked that seat. I hadn't sat in one for years but installed a pair on the tandem I finished up this winter. As soon as I sat down for the test paddle I remembered why I liked them so much.

Do you have any pictures of your pedestal mount? I have seen a few boats with it but mostly the guys who are making composite boats and have carbon rails to make the pedestal. Would want something a bit more simple if i can. Does yours adjust?

Stripperguy and I use different methods for our pedestal seats. I've made them out of carbon and foam (with aluminum rails) but lately I've been building with more wood and I'm not paying much of a weight penalty over the carbon ones by using all cedar. This is the pedestal I'm working on for my current build. It has less travel than the ones I normally build:

20170529_002 by Alan, on Flickr

Here's another I did with more travel:

20160222_002 by Alan, on Flickr

The risers are 1/2" cedar and the webs are 1/4" cedar on the new one. I had been using carbon covered foam for the webbing but I think the cedar is just as strong (I'm not using super high density foam) and probably lighter weight in the long run. It's certainly less work and money.

The tubing is 1" aluminum spray painted black.

Alan

 

[stripperguy]

OK, here's one photo of it, you should be able to zoom and see it more clearly.
View attachment nriUX7VTqCBFFc445AFYkP27UM52yBreDXuEWBgQgybfriOA1SQdCV5yWLpgbD-iqZ9Xcb_fBLdG6rBbWS2cZWjazv3nvwI1nfRU


And yes, it does adjust fore-aft, about 10 inches of adjustment. I used the medium density 3M Dual Lock (same stuff as an EZ PASS) , kind of like velcro on steroids but without the rage! The Dual Lock is surprisingly strong, but will release the bucket seat readily if you become entangled. I keep saying I should tether the seat in, but I've only been out a few times so far...
I did another, similar set of pedestal supports on my red Kite. Those were a little more widely spaced.

Here's a look at those pedestals in the red Kite.

View attachment e-oD-iHKBAMKZkjkQ2NbNFqEPToyMZfKGtTkiUupcTLjuTuh3cGcxXtoIGr-qJt0doTYMZeUklrbvC_fO3_hfX2rXDxG_gHwURdB

The pedestals are not quite finished in that photo, and I still have the other hull mounted cleats in place.
You can see there's a ton of room between the pedestals, I can fit one or both feet under the seat. I can also fit a foot on each side of a single pedestal, if I want to heel and paddle. The Kite happens to be very sensitive to fore-aft trim, this sort of arrangement allows for quick and easy adjustments, and still preserves that all important leg room. Well, all important for me...after a full day in the boat, it's nice to be able to change seating/leg positions. And I already mentions the ease of mobility, but for me it's a major factor. I sometimes paddle over 30 beaver dams in a day, it's just too easy to move around the pedestals. If my seat was cleat mounted, I would have to move my legs higher to scooch fore and aft when I go over those dams.

 

[Ben Mahaffey]

No Title

Those seats look like they may be the ticket. Anything to keep it from sliding when you get it where you want it? Alan how do you make your seats and do you sell them?
Back to the build, it has been going slowly but surely. I am trying to get a few strips on each day and it seems to be working out. I am wondering when you switch from alternating sides to building up one side past the centerline then cutting that down and building the other one up. And as always something for your viewing pleasure.