Nice job on those seat rail ends to hull fits. Not easy to do! I don't have personal experience with installing a seat that way, but I'd feel more secure with a supporting ledger fitted to the seat rail ends, glued to the hull.
-
Happy Winter Solstice! 🌇🌃
(Finally) starting from scratch.
- Thread starter Gamma1214
- Start date
I'm a little confused about your positioning. If you are kneeling without your feet under the seat, you must move forward fairly close to the center thwart. But, then, what is your butt resting on when kneeling? Are you able to kneel with your butt all the way down on your calves like the last of the Mohicans?
I know someone who would say that no matter whether a canoe is empty, partially loaded or fully loaded, but he won't say that here because you're finished and this has been such an interesting build thread, and so brilliantly documented, that it will forever be a highlight of this forum.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 1,879
Glenn, I knew you would not approve of the non-centralized seat (and was surprised that you didn't say something earlier 
) but, when kicked back and paddling seated, I like to see more of the canoe and I like having the bulk of the gear in one pack (which, in my case, goes in front of me).
In any situation where I need better bow control, I'll slip forward and kneel (just aft of center... as I should). I may move the seat forward slightly (like 6 inches) on the next one (I expect to know for sure by Sept 16th) but I'll maintain the 28 inch spacing to the thwart so I can use the paddles instead of a portage yoke. (sorry, years of backpacking just won't allow for the extra weight and I tend to lose things so I'll keep it simple)
As for resting... no, I'm not resting my butt against anything. Although I can sit on my calves, I don't. If I'm kneeling, it's because I need the extra level of control and I am actively forcing the canoe to do my will. It's always seemed that that is better achieved by using my whole body so I am typically kneeling upright, driving from my hips and using them as a fulcrum between my upper body and my knees where they contact the hull. Then again, I'm untrained so maybe there are easier ways (as there appears to be fitting the chines) but, as long as the boat does my bidding, I've always figured that I'm good.
) but, when kicked back and paddling seated, I like to see more of the canoe and I like having the bulk of the gear in one pack (which, in my case, goes in front of me).In any situation where I need better bow control, I'll slip forward and kneel (just aft of center... as I should). I may move the seat forward slightly (like 6 inches) on the next one (I expect to know for sure by Sept 16th) but I'll maintain the 28 inch spacing to the thwart so I can use the paddles instead of a portage yoke. (sorry, years of backpacking just won't allow for the extra weight and I tend to lose things so I'll keep it simple)
As for resting... no, I'm not resting my butt against anything. Although I can sit on my calves, I don't. If I'm kneeling, it's because I need the extra level of control and I am actively forcing the canoe to do my will. It's always seemed that that is better achieved by using my whole body so I am typically kneeling upright, driving from my hips and using them as a fulcrum between my upper body and my knees where they contact the hull. Then again, I'm untrained so maybe there are easier ways (as there appears to be fitting the chines) but, as long as the boat does my bidding, I've always figured that I'm good.
The supports under the seat are notched for the rails if that's what you mean. I should have gotten a good picture of it before installation but I didn't. I can try tomorrow if I think of it.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 1,879
OK, to wrap this up: While applying spar varnish to the seat, gunwales, etc, my buddy Dave was able to slip a piece of paper between the hull and the ends of the seat rails in a few different places so I obviously didn't get a good bond. I was pressed for time so he built tape dams around the ends of the rails, mixed up a little epoxy & dribbled to in until the wells were slightly overfilled with epoxy, let them set up and removed the tape the following day. He did, however, neglect to take pictures but I'm not complaining. The seat is now securely attached to the hull and I didn't have to do it. (I learned long ago to never complain about free help)
My Dad and some co-workers want to see the boat before it's scratched up so I stopped out tonight, lowered it off of the porch one final time and carried it to the truck.
The padding on the cap cross rails had become pretty rough and I didn't want to damage the (IMO) gorgeous Cherry gunwales so I stopped at the dollar store ($1.25 store?) and grabbed a couple of pool noodles (if you've read my BWCA report, you'll know I'm a huge fan of pool noodles). I slit these, spread them over the cap cross rails and wrapped them in gorilla tape.
(and, yes, I AM sitting on the roof)
All that was left was to weigh it and lash it to the roof so I borrowed my buddy's bathroom scales and proceeded to do both. The canoe is now ready for Canada, the canoe shop is ready for a Raven build when I return and I am ready to disappear into the woods for a bit.
Final weight: 45 pounds (I was hoping for 42 but I knew that was energetic for a first build). I'll let you know it performs when I get back.
My Dad and some co-workers want to see the boat before it's scratched up so I stopped out tonight, lowered it off of the porch one final time and carried it to the truck.
The padding on the cap cross rails had become pretty rough and I didn't want to damage the (IMO) gorgeous Cherry gunwales so I stopped at the dollar store ($1.25 store?) and grabbed a couple of pool noodles (if you've read my BWCA report, you'll know I'm a huge fan of pool noodles). I slit these, spread them over the cap cross rails and wrapped them in gorilla tape.
(and, yes, I AM sitting on the roof
)All that was left was to weigh it and lash it to the roof so I borrowed my buddy's bathroom scales and proceeded to do both. The canoe is now ready for Canada, the canoe shop is ready for a Raven build when I return and I am ready to disappear into the woods for a bit.
Final weight: 45 pounds (I was hoping for 42 but I knew that was energetic for a first build). I'll let you know it performs when I get back.
I think 45 pounds is great! I get a huge kick out of the picture of the canoe getting, launched, out of the up stairs shop. Great job and have a great trip.
Roy
Roy
Looks great, look forward to seeing it in person!
Beautiful job. It came out great! Have a good trip.
Bob
Bob
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 1,879
Fair warning: it's very photogenic. On the next, I'll have to be more careful to contain runs in the epoxy (or, maybe, just sand them off) as there were quite a few below the chine that I missed. They'll (hopefully) remain above waterline so they'll have zero effect on performance and I doubt I'll ever do anything about them. Between the runs and some minor puddling on the inside, maybe that's my other 3 lbs lol
Another benefit of doing it that way is that I put the first scratch on it shoving it over the railing. I'm assuming it's like a new car... first scratch makes it no longer pristine so I can just relax and drive it, right?
Thanks Bob. I'm looking forward to posting pictures of it in various settings... like Flat Stanley; wilderness version!
I’ve been watching intently, you have learned well, Grasshopper.
Time to get it wet and evaluate potential changes for the next one (or two or three)
It is easy on the eyes for sure, stay away from others on your trip or you’ll end up answering hundreds of questions!
Nice job man!
Time to get it wet and evaluate potential changes for the next one (or two or three)
It is easy on the eyes for sure, stay away from others on your trip or you’ll end up answering hundreds of questions!
Nice job man!
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 1,879
Thanks, Mr. Miyagi. I was a bit concerned about the Aspen being so white that it required sunglasses to paddle but it's really a light yellow. Might be the RAKA epoxy... I've noticed that leftovers in the mixing cups have turned a yellowish color instead of remaining completely clear. I'll play with other epoxies going forward and see.
PS: I took it to work today and my 5 minute coffee stop in the am turned into 20 minutes. I can easily see why so many guys paint them. I will be watching for a wood combo that is "bleh" though as I have an idea...
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2022
- Messages
- 240
- Reaction score
- 209
Wow! Nice work! Been a blast following your progress and details! Congratulations on a job well done! Now paddle and be free!!OK, to wrap this up: While applying spar varnish to the seat, gunwales, etc, my buddy Dave was able to slip a piece of paper between the hull and the ends of the seat rails in a few different places so I obviously didn't get a good bond. I was pressed for time so he built tape dams around the ends of the rails, mixed up a little epoxy & dribbled to in until the wells were slightly overfilled with epoxy, let them set up and removed the tape the following day. He did, however, neglect to take pictures but I'm not complaining. The seat is now securely attached to the hull and I didn't have to do it. (I learned long ago to never complain about free help)
My Dad and some co-workers want to see the boat before it's scratched up so I stopped out tonight, lowered it off of the porch one final time and carried it to the truck.
View attachment 137036
View attachment 137033
The padding on the cap cross rails had become pretty rough and I didn't want to damage the (IMO) gorgeous Cherry gunwales so I stopped at the dollar store ($1.25 store?) and grabbed a couple of pool noodles (if you've read my BWCA report, you'll know I'm a huge fan of pool noodles). I slit these, spread them over the cap cross rails and wrapped them in gorilla tape.
View attachment 137034
(and, yes, I AM sitting on the roof
All that was left was to weigh it and lash it to the roof so I borrowed my buddy's bathroom scales and proceeded to do both. The canoe is now ready for Canada, the canoe shop is ready for a Raven build when I return and I am ready to disappear into the woods for a bit.
View attachment 137035
Final weight: 45 pounds (I was hoping for 42 but I knew that was energetic for a first build). I'll let you know it performs when I get back.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 1,879
Recently returned from an 8 day test paddle (TR pending... well over 800 still pictures and lots of video to sort through) and thought I'd share some impressions of the hull:
For flat water tripping, I like this hull alot. It's not as fast as my Summersong but is certainly not a chore to paddle. It is very stable and I had no issues standing to scout upcoming rapids. It handled the pack weight well and proved very seaworthy under some pretty nasty weather / wave conditions.
I liked using the paddles as the portage system although the thwart will need to be moved forward 4-6 inches on the next build. I often found myself sitting down off the back of the seat and I think 28-30 inches of spacing would be more comfortable than the 24 that I have. I'll also need to find some better padding (or a way to add padding to the pack straps) as the pool noodle, wrapped in duct tape and slit worked well but, by the end of the trip, needed to be tied in place. Maybe a better brand of pool noodle / pipe insulation would solve this...
I did not find the boat to be flimsy. I had quite a few opportunities to hit rocks pretty hard, I scraped my way along several miles of river and even dropped it when I fell on my face during a portage. I've got to sand out a lot of scratches, there are places where the varnish peeled and even one spot where I broke a chunk out of a gunwale, so I've got some repairs to make but I see no evidence that I'm into the weave anywhere and (obviously) it got me home.
Speaking of several miles of river... I don't think this will be the hull that gets built from Sumac. It would be the top choice so far for a return to the BWCA but it does not handle well in moving water. The stern seemed to catch every nuance of the current and, if I was off center at all exiting a riffle or rapid, I would find myself being spun out and driven into a bank (even when kneeling). It just does not seem to have enough rocker to turn well and even turning sharply on lakes had the sensation of plowing water.
In order to get back to the truck, I had to paddle upstream and found that particularly frustrating. The bow was even more sensitive to current than the stern and I wound up wading / dragging (and cursing a lot) to get back to the launch.
Again, seems to be a great flat water solo tripper but maybe not my ideal for moving water or trips that involve both moving and flat water.
Next up: a Raven. I had the opportunity to see Memaquay's Raven in person and I'm going to have to up my game... far more fit & finish than mine but I like the lines and the extra freeboard. I'm just hoping, with the extra wood weight (the Larch is heavier than Aspen also) I'll be able to keep it under 50#. We'll see...
For flat water tripping, I like this hull alot. It's not as fast as my Summersong but is certainly not a chore to paddle. It is very stable and I had no issues standing to scout upcoming rapids. It handled the pack weight well and proved very seaworthy under some pretty nasty weather / wave conditions.
I liked using the paddles as the portage system although the thwart will need to be moved forward 4-6 inches on the next build. I often found myself sitting down off the back of the seat and I think 28-30 inches of spacing would be more comfortable than the 24 that I have. I'll also need to find some better padding (or a way to add padding to the pack straps) as the pool noodle, wrapped in duct tape and slit worked well but, by the end of the trip, needed to be tied in place. Maybe a better brand of pool noodle / pipe insulation would solve this...
I did not find the boat to be flimsy. I had quite a few opportunities to hit rocks pretty hard, I scraped my way along several miles of river and even dropped it when I fell on my face during a portage. I've got to sand out a lot of scratches, there are places where the varnish peeled and even one spot where I broke a chunk out of a gunwale, so I've got some repairs to make but I see no evidence that I'm into the weave anywhere and (obviously) it got me home.
Speaking of several miles of river... I don't think this will be the hull that gets built from Sumac. It would be the top choice so far for a return to the BWCA but it does not handle well in moving water. The stern seemed to catch every nuance of the current and, if I was off center at all exiting a riffle or rapid, I would find myself being spun out and driven into a bank (even when kneeling). It just does not seem to have enough rocker to turn well and even turning sharply on lakes had the sensation of plowing water.
In order to get back to the truck, I had to paddle upstream and found that particularly frustrating. The bow was even more sensitive to current than the stern and I wound up wading / dragging (and cursing a lot) to get back to the launch.
Again, seems to be a great flat water solo tripper but maybe not my ideal for moving water or trips that involve both moving and flat water.
Next up: a Raven. I had the opportunity to see Memaquay's Raven in person and I'm going to have to up my game... far more fit & finish than mine but I like the lines and the extra freeboard. I'm just hoping, with the extra wood weight (the Larch is heavier than Aspen also) I'll be able to keep it under 50#. We'll see...
Great report on the canoe performance. I look forward to seeing pictures
Roy
Roy
Glad you made it back , looking forward to the trip report!
Well, you knew this might happen…
Many hull designs for many paddlers/types of usage.
Don’t throw it out just yet, it may suit other waters much better.
You might want to build a permanently padded carry thwart, that could fit to this and other hulls.
I would expect it’s still a cool head trip to paddle a boat that you built yourself, it still is for me, even after 4 decades of building!!
Looking forward to your TR and pics
Many hull designs for many paddlers/types of usage.
Don’t throw it out just yet, it may suit other waters much better.
You might want to build a permanently padded carry thwart, that could fit to this and other hulls.
I would expect it’s still a cool head trip to paddle a boat that you built yourself, it still is for me, even after 4 decades of building!!
Looking forward to your TR and pics
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2022
- Messages
- 240
- Reaction score
- 209
Welcome back! Look forward to the photos… very interesting knowledge gained from application of your build to voyage. Excellent
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,383
- Reaction score
- 1,879
I'm definitely not throwing the boat out and, yes, it was pretty cool to paddle knowing that I built it. It was also liberating in that I didn't have to baby it (though I didn't intentionally abuse it either) as I knew that I built it and could build another so I was free to just use it and enjoy.
The different ways that hulls perform is exactly the reason I am building 3-4 hulls before building the one I like best from Sumac. Which reminds me: (my sawmill-owning friend) Dewey & I have to go look at some huge arborvitae trees today. It's in the Cedar family and they were planted thick... should yield some nice clear boards for future boats.
The different ways that hulls perform is exactly the reason I am building 3-4 hulls before building the one I like best from Sumac. Which reminds me: (my sawmill-owning friend) Dewey & I have to go look at some huge arborvitae trees today. It's in the Cedar family and they were planted thick... should yield some nice clear boards for future boats.
Now that's planning ahead.
I'm not familiar with this canoe, but it does seem to have some rocker in the side view picture of it on your truck. Maybe it just has too little volume and depth for your total load, which sinks the rocker so deep in the water that it bogs down.
Looking forward to your longer report and pictures.
Similar threads
