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Happy Caesar Crosses the Rubicon (49 BC)! "alea iacta est" 🎲
The Incredible Righteousness of lightness
- Thread starter memaquay
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I guess where I am, there is no real possibility for UL, we can get snow in July... That said I use to go quite light, but ended up getting rid of most of my light stuff for more durable stuff. We paddle from May to October. Other than the months of jun july and august, we use the wall tent and most of the time the wood stove. We don't portage much, that is the nature of the rivers and lake we paddle. It is all good, as long as you are happy with what you use and have on your trip and you don't judge what other use and carry. We have friends, that do the UL paddling thing, they use packraft, sill nylon or cuben tarps, lightweight packs, they hike and paddle 100's of Km every summer in places that it is the only way to do it... But not my way. I like classic, traditional gear. I'm looking into getting a big W/C canoe in the next year. I don't cary a stove, but carry a setting pole. On the other hand, my solo ww canoe weight only 35# but I wear a dry suit on all my ww paddling outing...
To each is own. But when it is 2 degrees Celsius and pissing rain for a week, I like the wood stove in my canvas tent....
To each is own. But when it is 2 degrees Celsius and pissing rain for a week, I like the wood stove in my canvas tent....
Well geez, if I had that herd of mules to schlep my gear across portages, and smile doing it, I'd bring everything but the kitchen sink too! But hey, that's how they did it on the old days; find a bunch of natives to lug your gear around. 
Mem, if you are truly committed to the rightness of heaviness you should consider a shirt of chain mail. It might be the opposite of the hair shirt. nothing says trip leader like a good coat of mail. And it would come in handy when you needed to fend off the occasional camp raiding bear. Get one long enough to cover your junk if you are going to mess with bears. If it all goes south on you they can launch you in your cedar strip and give you a nice viking funeral. The mail will help sink what doesn't burn. Dave
Hoo haa, Rippy, that's a good one, another coffee snorter, "cover my junk", ha ha, dang. I might be laughing just a little too much because an ice storm just cancelled all the buses into school, so I might get some time to work on my canoe today.
LF Tripper, I think the reason I tried light weight in the first place was so that I could carry more booze. I can remember being hungry, cold and wet but having plenty of hooch.
Brad, i think Rippy might be on to something with his "keeping an eye on you" thing. Especially with your Kinda hippy-religious-weirdo talk. Oh well, it's nothing we can't flush out of you with several bud lites.
Alan, in the summer time i run away from kids, even if they could be used as sherpas. One person can only take so much of being surrounded by a bazillion teenagers all the time.
If I get a chance to work on my canoe today, I might make the stems out of hardwood, just to get the ball rolling.
LF Tripper, I think the reason I tried light weight in the first place was so that I could carry more booze. I can remember being hungry, cold and wet but having plenty of hooch.
Brad, i think Rippy might be on to something with his "keeping an eye on you" thing. Especially with your Kinda hippy-religious-weirdo talk. Oh well, it's nothing we can't flush out of you with several bud lites.
Alan, in the summer time i run away from kids, even if they could be used as sherpas. One person can only take so much of being surrounded by a bazillion teenagers all the time.
If I get a chance to work on my canoe today, I might make the stems out of hardwood, just to get the ball rolling.
"...it's nothing we can't flush out of you with several bud lites..." Are you saying what I think you're saying? Are we talking about me taking a cleanse in the ol' "personal plumbing department", or in the hippy spiritual sense? Either way, it might take more than a few Buds. For an early birthday bash this past weekend (my 2 adult sons and I have birthdays the 1st week of December, we decided to get the party started early), a son got me a couple bottles of beer. I'm talking real beer memaquay. Craft brew of 9%. I call it "a nap in a bottle." I gave them a table top hockey game. I figured we're all too old to settle our fights in any old sort of way, so let's do it like...like...Canadian children. Oh how mature of me. Anyway, son #2 took an hour to beat son #1 by a score of 10 - 4. I played the winner. It took me 3 minutes to paste him 10 - 0. I could sneeze and the puck would go in. Next time I'm told I hafta drink my "nap in a bottle" before every game. I can live with that. I'm hoping for a tournament for Christmas Eve. My wife was hoping for Christmas Carol singing instead.
Is "Go Leafs Go" Christmassy enough?
Wow. I'm so far off topic I need a map. Oh yeah, the righteousness of lightness, or as I'd rather put it "the lightness of being". As I said, I'd love the whole traditional approach to tripping if it weren't all so dang heavy. Lighter means easier, and I'm not too proud to admit I'll take the unattractive gear route to save myself some pain. But I'm not turning my back on that stuff entirely. I keep looking longingly at wooden wannigans, canvas and leather packs, wood and canvas canoes. Life can be about compromises sometimes. I'll keep making them.
Do chain mail shirts come in Tuff Weave?
Is "Go Leafs Go" Christmassy enough?
Wow. I'm so far off topic I need a map. Oh yeah, the righteousness of lightness, or as I'd rather put it "the lightness of being". As I said, I'd love the whole traditional approach to tripping if it weren't all so dang heavy. Lighter means easier, and I'm not too proud to admit I'll take the unattractive gear route to save myself some pain. But I'm not turning my back on that stuff entirely. I keep looking longingly at wooden wannigans, canvas and leather packs, wood and canvas canoes. Life can be about compromises sometimes. I'll keep making them.
Do chain mail shirts come in Tuff Weave?
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Write something...
Odyssey wrote: Craft brew of 9%. I call it "a nap in a bottle."
This needed to be highlighted. What a gem!
Odyssey wrote: Craft brew of 9%. I call it "a nap in a bottle."
This needed to be highlighted. What a gem!
Brad, I'm not saying that you're full of "stuff" but I took the cleansing to mean both ways.
Come to think of it Mem, guys that wear chain mail don't drink light beer. Maybe you should take real Bud, you could get by with half as much, there by saving weight. XXOO Dave
Come to think of it Mem, guys that wear chain mail don't drink light beer. Maybe you should take real Bud, you could get by with half as much, there by saving weight. XXOO Dave
Dave's sending memaquay kisses and hugs, and I'm the one they keep an eye on?
Okee dokey, I'll do the cleanse, but something tells me it'll be Geraldton style, whatever that may entail.Spruce bud tea? Sweat lodge? Wearing my clothes inside out running down Main Street yelling "I'm looking for Amanda Kissinhug!" I'm gonna need chainmail for that.
Okee dokey, I'll do the cleanse, but something tells me it'll be Geraldton style, whatever that may entail.Spruce bud tea? Sweat lodge? Wearing my clothes inside out running down Main Street yelling "I'm looking for Amanda Kissinhug!" I'm gonna need chainmail for that.
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Brad you got me this time. Amanda Kissinhug.
It's too bad we don't live closer, we could drop a puck and a couple beers. (No, I'm talking Bud Lite. I don't want to take a nap together.) I wonder if I could fit this lightweight hockey game in a portage pack? It'd be a blast in front of the campfire! Loser carries the Bud.
Maybe Rippy is on to something with the Bud Heavy idea. Last time I drank Bud Heavy I was drunk after three beers, whereas it takes about 14 bud lites. Wow, I think Rippy just saved me a lot of weight on the next trip!
I totally disagree about the weight issue, I've taught youth canoeing and wilderness skills for over 20 years, and paddled every thing from Grummans and north canoes to carbon fiber marathon racing shells. After more than 50 years of paddling I've learned that especially for new paddlers, a light boat makes the difference between enjoyment and swearing to never touch another paddle.
A light canoe is generally easier to paddle, and definitely easier to carry. BWCA is not the only place with hard carrys and why work harder than necessary when I'm out to have fun and explore new places.
I actually enjoy a double carry as it gives me a chance to relax, stretch out my muscles, and check out the scenery on the way back.
I also like my creature comforts, and depending on the trip that may be anything as basic as two sierra cups so I can drink and eat at the same time on a really light trip, or a full size chair on an easy trip with few portages
My lightest trip was a 26lb carbon fiber canoe and 7lb pack for a weekend (summer ultralight dash), My heaviest was a 110lb freighter and two packs totalling 95lbs for a week (November trip with snowstorms)
Most of the time I'm somewhere in the middle I go light on some things and heavy on others
A light canoe is generally easier to paddle, and definitely easier to carry. BWCA is not the only place with hard carrys and why work harder than necessary when I'm out to have fun and explore new places.
I actually enjoy a double carry as it gives me a chance to relax, stretch out my muscles, and check out the scenery on the way back.
I also like my creature comforts, and depending on the trip that may be anything as basic as two sierra cups so I can drink and eat at the same time on a really light trip, or a full size chair on an easy trip with few portages
My lightest trip was a 26lb carbon fiber canoe and 7lb pack for a weekend (summer ultralight dash), My heaviest was a 110lb freighter and two packs totalling 95lbs for a week (November trip with snowstorms)
Most of the time I'm somewhere in the middle I go light on some things and heavy on others
I like the old ways and some of it is heavy. Big boats and a few young people make a big difference. One 75 mile week in the BWCA portaging aluminum canoes taught me all I need to know about portages. Now we avoid them like the plague. Light is good when it is easy and not too expensive.
I have respect for the lightweight outfits some people carry and the efficiency of their portaging ability. As a I age I am less and less inclined to emulate them.
I have respect for the lightweight outfits some people carry and the efficiency of their portaging ability. As a I age I am less and less inclined to emulate them.
I'd rather paddle and carry a wood canvas canoe and look at wet canvas packs all day than go light weight, but that's just me.
I test paddled a friends rental one time in Quetico, it was a clear Souris River solo with a double blade, you could see the water line through the hull. Very lightweight, bobbed in the water, very fast, aluminium gunnels, got him from point A to point B very fast and easy, but just didn't cut it for me.
I was glad I'm not hooked on weight or cutting weight.
16' Pal with canvas packs on the Rivere Noire
I am definitely enjoying this thread...you guys should do stand up!!
I think I may be pretty high on the righteous/lightness scale, but let me explain.
The list:
2. Some of the carries that I travel rarely have even a foot path, more bushwhacking than anything. So, single trip and no witnesses!!
3. I enjoy a good suffering as much as the next guy (after all, I am a cyclist), but I have gone long past any need to prove anything to anyone. But the chain mail does intrigue me, maybe if it was Inconel or Rene 41.
4. I bring dehydrated foods cause they're just too easy...no pot, no pans, no dishes, no clean up. And a Kelly Kettle only, so no fuel.
5. Well, we're talking different stuff here. If efficiency is the goal, carry only the hard stuff, or better yet, a big wad of weed...no, even better, just a small syringe and mainline it!
Seriously, I grew up with an abusive alcoholic father, and my sister (at age 64) is an alcoholic drug addict. That sh!t runs in the genes, man...so, none of that for me. Besides, I like to clearly remember everything I see, smell and feel!
6. Sacrilege!!
7. I don't bother with lists, I even forgot a paddle once. I pack all that I need for comfort and safety, it's not that much.
8. I do have a large line of credit, but it's not for outdoor gear. I have been upgrading my gear slowly over the last 10 years or so. I just stopped using my 1979 Tough Traveler backpack. Modern materials are pretty nice, and help me keep what's left of my joints intact. I'm just too little to hump heavy stuff.
But those kids in the OP look like they're having the time of their lives! I still get the same sort of thrill, just with a little less weight on my shoulders.
I do have my must haves:
A comfy camp chair and my heavy DSLR.
So where do I end up? I'm cheap, have no witnesses, like chain mail, I'm in the Club, don't drink, don't double dip, don't do lists, but I do have a large credit limit.
I lost track...
I think I may be pretty high on the righteous/lightness scale, but let me explain.
The list:
- Be prepared to pay a lot of money .
- Be prepared to suffer the slings and arrows of humiliation if you admit to making more than one carry across a portage.
- You had better be happy wearing a hair shirt (the same hair shirt, and no change of underwear) for an entire trip.
- If you don’t dehydrate your meals, you are out of the Club.
- Liquor is a no-no.
- Be prepared to use a kayak paddle in a solo canoe.
- Make lists that are pages long that show all of the stuff you don’t bring.
- Get a really large line-of-credit to stay on top of all the most recent gear.
2. Some of the carries that I travel rarely have even a foot path, more bushwhacking than anything. So, single trip and no witnesses!!
3. I enjoy a good suffering as much as the next guy (after all, I am a cyclist), but I have gone long past any need to prove anything to anyone. But the chain mail does intrigue me, maybe if it was Inconel or Rene 41.
4. I bring dehydrated foods cause they're just too easy...no pot, no pans, no dishes, no clean up. And a Kelly Kettle only, so no fuel.
5. Well, we're talking different stuff here. If efficiency is the goal, carry only the hard stuff, or better yet, a big wad of weed...no, even better, just a small syringe and mainline it!
Seriously, I grew up with an abusive alcoholic father, and my sister (at age 64) is an alcoholic drug addict. That sh!t runs in the genes, man...so, none of that for me. Besides, I like to clearly remember everything I see, smell and feel!
6. Sacrilege!!
7. I don't bother with lists, I even forgot a paddle once. I pack all that I need for comfort and safety, it's not that much.
8. I do have a large line of credit, but it's not for outdoor gear. I have been upgrading my gear slowly over the last 10 years or so. I just stopped using my 1979 Tough Traveler backpack. Modern materials are pretty nice, and help me keep what's left of my joints intact. I'm just too little to hump heavy stuff.
But those kids in the OP look like they're having the time of their lives! I still get the same sort of thrill, just with a little less weight on my shoulders.
I do have my must haves:
A comfy camp chair and my heavy DSLR.
So where do I end up? I'm cheap, have no witnesses, like chain mail, I'm in the Club, don't drink, don't double dip, don't do lists, but I do have a large credit limit.
I lost track...
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It looks like I may be in the heavy camp with lightweight longings.Most of my gear is govt surplus, so that usually means heavy. Those folks tend to truck camp a lot. I am also a diehard two burner coleman fan, although I have been flirting with a single burner, screw on the bottle type of propane stove that I am really Jonesing on.
Strangely enough, we have a system worked out to triple or quad carry portages that is faster than most people can double. Or at least we did. It was largely dependent on me being rugged and fast, which I am not now. So watch and shoot on that next year.
We have a stable full of lovely wood canvas canoes, but for the serious trips we dust off the kevlar. Hey, I'm traditional, not crazy. I love being on the water and I like having enough stuff to be comfy but I sure hate carrying it. I have held off substituting the fresh food for dehydrated but the last few trips have been more on the minimalist side. I will even admit to having dumped the KD out of the box and putting it in a ziploc. A wannabe gram weenie.
Christy
Strangely enough, we have a system worked out to triple or quad carry portages that is faster than most people can double. Or at least we did. It was largely dependent on me being rugged and fast, which I am not now. So watch and shoot on that next year.
We have a stable full of lovely wood canvas canoes, but for the serious trips we dust off the kevlar. Hey, I'm traditional, not crazy. I love being on the water and I like having enough stuff to be comfy but I sure hate carrying it. I have held off substituting the fresh food for dehydrated but the last few trips have been more on the minimalist side. I will even admit to having dumped the KD out of the box and putting it in a ziploc. A wannabe gram weenie.
Christy
Perhaps the issue of #1, Pay a lot of money, might be at odds. What is a lot to some isn't to others. For me, $205 for a Symat is a couple days of OT, that is a lot of money. I'd never even consider a paddle over $100. Sell some stuff to buy lighter stuff will work too. Also, I have a Tarn 2 with is like a coffin, it would work but I'm not comfy in it so I need a bigger tent, more weight, to be comfy. A new lighter boat would require a bank loan.
I'm not ditching the fishing gear either, 2 rods and reels, a few pounds of tackle.
To each their own.
I'm not ditching the fishing gear either, 2 rods and reels, a few pounds of tackle.
To each their own.
SG, you might be righteous. I hear mithril makes excellent chain mail. My money says that you of all people would be able to source some if you have any Middle Earth connections. Let me know if you do, I could use a few items from there myself.
Christy, you used a term that I wanted to use earlier but was afraid to bring up, gram weenie. Gram weenie is not a badge I want to wear. It seems to become an excessive compulsive disorder with some folks. I have to be careful as I tend to want to overindulge with everything. I abuse chewing gum if given the opportunity.
I'm still claiming to be in the middle weight normal crowd. Wow, me claiming to be normal, that's a tough around sell here isn't it. Members of the jury,,,, I present to you that my client is normal by reasoning of his ability to pack "normally" for a canoe trip. I further move that previous statements made at canoetripping.com be struck from the record.
That said my whole outfit for a BWCA Fall trip, canoe and all, weighs about 140 lbs. Dave,,,that's a normal weight you say. Thanks for noticing! I double carry splitting the load almost evenly to about 70 lbs each trip. After reading posts on a hammock site of gram weenies using thinner 7/64" amsteel lines to tie up their hammocks in a effort to save a few ozs, I thought I should take a look at my rig to see where I could trim some weight. I use a Coleman 533 dual fuel single burner stove that weighs about 2 lbs empty. The tank is steel and I hear people complain that it weighs more than the aluminum tank model so I checked it out. The lighter version holds 6 ozs less fuel and weighs 10 ozs less. So when filled it would weigh 1 lb less total in my pack. A good gram weenie would cut a couple fingers off his left hand to save a few ozs. To shed a whole pound would be orgasmic. So I started looking on ebay for the lighter model. About the time I was ready to click on buy it now, that pesky voice of reason started talking in my head. " You know you have to carry the same amount of fuel for the week weather its in the stove or in the fuel can." OK so I'm only saving 10 ozs what are you trying to say. "So one carry would be 69 lbs 6ozs instead of 70 lbs." Oh,,,,, I get it.
Christy, you used a term that I wanted to use earlier but was afraid to bring up, gram weenie. Gram weenie is not a badge I want to wear. It seems to become an excessive compulsive disorder with some folks. I have to be careful as I tend to want to overindulge with everything. I abuse chewing gum if given the opportunity.
I'm still claiming to be in the middle weight normal crowd. Wow, me claiming to be normal, that's a tough around sell here isn't it. Members of the jury,,,, I present to you that my client is normal by reasoning of his ability to pack "normally" for a canoe trip. I further move that previous statements made at canoetripping.com be struck from the record.
That said my whole outfit for a BWCA Fall trip, canoe and all, weighs about 140 lbs. Dave,,,that's a normal weight you say. Thanks for noticing! I double carry splitting the load almost evenly to about 70 lbs each trip. After reading posts on a hammock site of gram weenies using thinner 7/64" amsteel lines to tie up their hammocks in a effort to save a few ozs, I thought I should take a look at my rig to see where I could trim some weight. I use a Coleman 533 dual fuel single burner stove that weighs about 2 lbs empty. The tank is steel and I hear people complain that it weighs more than the aluminum tank model so I checked it out. The lighter version holds 6 ozs less fuel and weighs 10 ozs less. So when filled it would weigh 1 lb less total in my pack. A good gram weenie would cut a couple fingers off his left hand to save a few ozs. To shed a whole pound would be orgasmic. So I started looking on ebay for the lighter model. About the time I was ready to click on buy it now, that pesky voice of reason started talking in my head. " You know you have to carry the same amount of fuel for the week weather its in the stove or in the fuel can." OK so I'm only saving 10 ozs what are you trying to say. "So one carry would be 69 lbs 6ozs instead of 70 lbs." Oh,,,,, I get it.
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