Placid Boatworks some 15 years ago developed most of the Swift Technology but they have neither the financial means or the desire to do the level of mass marketing Swift does. They are working on a smaller scale
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Swift new infusion system
- Thread starter ShawnD
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YC, i'll give you three initials in common with the technologies and marketing... CEW
So there’s more pitchman marketing in the videos than technical discussion. From what I gather, the claims made are mostly in comparing the new polyurethane resin to their traditional vinylester. PUR resins are indeed generally stronger than vinylesters and approach most epoxies. They have low viscosity for infusion and really fast chemistry to enable quick de-molding and faster production. Where PUR resins shine in boatbuilding is abrasion resistance and cracking. They will hold up better on the bottom of a boat than even epoxy. Without knowing what resin formulation Swift uses, you can’t really compare things like tensile strength or strength-to-weight.
In the first video he says something like , “this is the first time canoe infusion has been possible without a gel coat layer”. This is completely false. Skin infusion boats have been available commercially for quite some time. Also, see my home build thread last year.
The new fibers and fabrics do enhance material properties. Combining glass and carbon fibers with others such as Innegra, polyester, and basalt can take advantage of the different characteristics that each fiber lends to the overall layup. The laminate schedule and layup of a hull as a whole will ultimately dictate properties, but it is indeed the surface fabric that will give it “that really cool look”.
In the first video he says something like , “this is the first time canoe infusion has been possible without a gel coat layer”. This is completely false. Skin infusion boats have been available commercially for quite some time. Also, see my home build thread last year.
The new fibers and fabrics do enhance material properties. Combining glass and carbon fibers with others such as Innegra, polyester, and basalt can take advantage of the different characteristics that each fiber lends to the overall layup. The laminate schedule and layup of a hull as a whole will ultimately dictate properties, but it is indeed the surface fabric that will give it “that really cool look”.
I have known him for 25 years; not news to me. We get together to cook sometimes off season.
I think it may be true. Infusion is way different than vacuum bagging. I have never heard of a home builder using infusion. It requires very expensive machinery. Skin boats are typically wet bagged and excess resin removed via vacuum
Actually I have one of the original Swift kevlar infusion prototypes and it was produced in 2001- 18 years ago, and remember Bill Jr telling me about the problems they had because there was nobody doing it like this, that's why it took another couple of years to make it commercially viable.
Muddyfeet did it: http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...omposite/page7
Wasn't there a member in Alaska that recently used a borrowed mold to infuse a canoe? Or did he vacuum bag? (EDIT: Found the post, it was hand layup)
A few years ago when I was messing with infusion I saw a couple youtube videos of other homebuilders doing it. Not sure how the actual canoes turned out though.
I'm sure on a commercial basis it requires very expensive machinery but for the home builder it just requires some ingenuity and guts.
Alan
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Muddyfeet.. you sir built one hell of a canoe !Tip of the hat..
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Bob Hellman of Hellman Canoes is not big in advertising, marketing and the like, he builds boat that are mostly sold in BC and really seldom seen outside, up here we sells lots them cause we believe in hem and Bob is a great guy to deal with( not like Marlyn from Clipper/western canoeing hahaha) We do sell a lot of Clipper canoes to, but I think Hellman canoes are superior, lighter and tougher!
As for infusion with out a gelcoat I'm pretty sure that is the way Nick Schade from Guillemot Kayaks does it, and definitely no gelcoat!!!
I know NYS has strict rules on handling of vapors used in infusion and protective gear. Not sure if Ontario does the same. I know it makes the process more expensive. PBW had to obey some strict guidelines. The benefit of infusion is the precise placement of resin and the precise balance of various ingredients. Homebuilders are not beholden to OSHA or EPA guidelines
Its a moot point. I am old enough to have the boats I want and old enough not to want more stuff but more experiences. At this stage if I can get someone to carry a cheap Grumman across the Canadian Shield I would be quite happy.
Its a moot point. I am old enough to have the boats I want and old enough not to want more stuff but more experiences. At this stage if I can get someone to carry a cheap Grumman across the Canadian Shield I would be quite happy.
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I'd like to paddle a Hellman Solitude. I think it's a big complement for a Canadian paddler to recommend Hellman over other Canadian boats. I may never be Canadian enough (in this lifetime) to use a tandem for my main solo (although the Swift Propsector 16 looks interesting and so does the H2O 16'6" Prospector) but the Hellman Solitude looks like it might keep me (and my dog) safe, comfy and happy. Maybe I need to start a bucket list.
If you ever want to cross the border looking for a good boat made by a good person I suggest you visit Dave Curtis at Hemlock canoes. Dave is special and so are his boats. The Peregrine is a very nice solo flatwater boat.
Some of his old posts in the early archive of this forum are a wealth of information. (CEW)
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I have known him for many years as well, and often see him at marketing events. He has often set me straight from my own misconceptions on everything paddling related.
