Strips for Pack Canoe Build in FL Panhandle

[PeteStaehling]

Upside down, showing all 3 sections separated. Note the 2 removed top pieces of darker plywood leaning against the cabinet in the background:

Very helpful. Thanks.
Do you plan to break them down and store them? If so how far do you plan to break them down? All the way flat?

Storage is pretty limited in my shop and I am considering short (4'?) sections that can fit through an attic hatch where there is more room.

I was thinking of cheap framing lumber for the legs since I always like to have it around. I use lots of it, even small pieces, for all kinds of stuff even turning projects.

 

[scratchypants]

I won't be breaking it down further than what it already is. It stores quite neatly into an 85" x 18" stack which fits nicely on the floor under my wood rack. If I was really pressed for space, I might have made a rack to store it against the ceiling as one would for a ladder.

 

[PeteStaehling]

I won't be breaking it down further than what it already is. It stores quite neatly into an 85" x 18" stack which fits nicely on the floor under my wood rack. If I was really pressed for space, I might have made a rack to store it against the ceiling as one would for a ladder.

I could probably manage a similar storage solution, but I like to keep the floor clear under things so I can blow chips and dust out the roll up door with a leaf blower now and then.

 

[PeteStaehling]

Well it is looking like it will most likely be poplar maybe with cherry accents, but I am still looking around at other sources. The available source has 12' lengths so the strips will bot be full length if they are from this source. The guy currently has Covid and is quarantining so I can't buy or look at in the next week.

 

[scratchypants]

My longest board for my 15' Bob Special was 10'. Most were between 8 and 9. I used 11 of them at 3.5" - 4" wide. I cut my strips to 0.210" thick with a thin kerf blade, netting 13-14 strips per board.

Link to my build thread: https://www.canoetripping.net/forum...onstruction/118001-my-first-build-bob-special

 

[PeteStaehling]

My longest board for my 15' Bob Special was 10'. Most were between 8 and 9. I used 11 of them at 3.5" - 4" wide. I cut my strips to 0.210" thick with a thin kerf blade, netting 13-14 strips per board.

Link to my build thread: https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...ld-bob-special

It is beautiful. I think the included knots actually add to the beauty. I will check out the build thread.

 

[scratchypants]

Thank you - that's very kind. To be clear, I selected my strips based solely on their integrity/function. No effort was made with regards to patterns/matching - I did not want that burden for my first build.

 

[PeteStaehling]

Thank you - that's very kind. To be clear, I selected my strips based solely on their integrity/function. No effort was made with regards to patterns/matching - I did not want that burden for my first build.

It may not appeal to everyone, but I think it is pretty because of the lack of matching rather than in spite of it. Maybe it is in part because it is a different look than is typical.

I have customers in my dulcimer business who just love it when I include knots, nail holes, worm holes, and other flaws in the wood. Others want flawless wood like fine furniture. I put the same care into both.

 

[PeteStaehling]

Well I guess it is getting to be decision time on the wood species.

Poplar - I have not looked at it, but can generally get reliably nice 12' length poplar a half day trip away. As mentioned the guy currently is recovering from Covid. He seemed confident he would be open again in a week. I'd probably use a little cherry (also readily available from the same source) to accent it.

Cedar - Home depot has lengths up to 12' of cedar (not sure if it is Western Red or not, but it looks like it probably is). I would probably not be able to be too picky as there isn't all that much to pick through, but what there is doesn't look too bad at the one store I looked at. There is another store in town and a 6 more within a 2-1/2 hour drive (one is an hour away). They are spread out in all directions, but it would be possible to hit them all in a LONG day of driving and shopping (10 hours just for the driving). At their prices and figuring 26 BF of lumber it comes out to a bit over $100 of lumber if I figured it correctly.

The pieces are very likely to be a variety of lengths all shorter than 14'. I am not particularly concerned about that.

I am doubtful of how well I would be able to choose boards that will yield vertical grain given the limited selection. I figure that driving to all 8 stores would increase the odds greatly but driving 500 miles and spending a VERY long day or two days driving and shopping at Home Depots doesn't sound like all that much fun. Long trips to sawmills and hardwood dealers is one thing but hitting 8 Home Depots isn't the same.

Bottom line, I see three choices:

1. Buy some nice poplar and cherry. It will be heavier and involve 2+ hours of driving.
2. Buy the nicest of the cedar at the two local Home Depots and range out to the next closest one(s) if they just don't have anything at all suitable. Lighter wood close to home, but less to pick from.
3. Be more picky and range out much further hitting distant Home Depots. Lots of driving with no guarantee of what they will have. Probably a good bet that between them there will be good choices and maybe I can hit a subset of the list and head home without driving the whole loop. Once I hit the second hop outside of Tallahassee it is already a pretty long drive though.

I am leaning toward choice 2. I can start there and if the choices don't look good bail and go with choice 3.

The thing I need to come to terms with is how choosy I should be regarding grain orientation. I understand that vertical grain in the strips is preferred and that will result from flat sawn boards, but I can't imagine that folks are able to find all boards that result in all nice perfectly vertical grain strips. How fussy do we really need to be here with the grain direction of wood that will be sandwiched between two layers of epoxy and glass?

 

[scratchypants]

Assuming you have access to a planer and that your boards will be greater in thickness than your final strip width, you can control grain direction yourself. If your boards have straight grain (otherwise resulting in flat-grained strips), you can rip them into flat-grained pieces that are slightly wider than your strip thickness. Then, rotate those pieces 90 degrees, thickness plane to strip width, and rip your strips from them.

 

[PeteStaehling]

Assuming you have access to a planer and that your boards will be greater in thickness than your final strip width, you can control grain direction yourself. If your boards have straight grain (otherwise resulting in flat-grained strips), you can rip them into flat-grained pieces that are slightly wider than your strip thickness. Then, rotate those pieces 90 degrees, thickness plane to strip width, and rip your strips from them.

I use a similar technique for some musical instrument parts all the time especially when working with big thick slabs or planks.

I actually I think more of the boards were vertical grain than flat sawn so that may be handy I do have access to all of the necessary tools to work it up so doing that isn't a problem other than maybe introducing a bit more waste. I still wonder how fussy I need to be on the vertical grain. In most cases it isn't going to be perfectly vertical I think what I am trying to figure out is just how much deviation from vertical is considered okay.

If I want perfectly vertical grain I might be driving around neighboring states picking through piles of cedar for a very long time. If most of it being a lot less than 45 degrees is good enough I can probably get enough at one store in one trip using your trick of ripping and flipping 90 degrees before ripping the strips.

 

[scratchypants]

The only two factors of which I am aware are a) looks and b) ease of fairing/sanding. Vertical grain will be stronger, but once encased in epoxy and glass I am not sure that plays a significant role. Flat grain can look good, it can also look weird. It is definitely more challenging to not introduce waves when fairing.

But who am I - a builder of a single vessel offering advice to a seemingly experienced luthier? Apologies for monopolizing your thread. I'll shut up for a bit.

 

[Boatman53]

Here is my two cents. Others here have built more strip boats than I, you can count mine on one hand. After strip builds I got into plank on frame and then big boats. Anyway at one point I had a lull in jobs at the shop so I thought it would be a good time to build another strip boat. I had measured a boat call a Wilber-Wheellock with a lovely shape. I got the mold set up and decided to do it with Basswood as previous builds with red cedar had made me mildly allergic. I bought some boards, ripped the strip with no regard to grain orientation, stripped the forms and got it glassed. By then I had a bit of a backlog of work so I pulled the boat off the forms so I could break down the strongback and clear out the area. I stashed the hull (glasses only on the outside) in another building and got back to making money. When I next looked at the boat a month later the strips had expanded and the boat was almost flat in the middle. I tried for force some forms back into it to help retain its shape, but in the end it just plain moved around so much it actually cracked the glass along some plank joints. I ended up cutting it up with my jig saw and putting it in the dumpster.
Red cedar doesn’t move that much but other woods do so my advice is don’t start till you can at least have enough time to glass inside and out, or make sure where you build is climate controlled including humidity. Quarter sawn cut wood also minimizes the problem I had.
I too have built a mountain dulcimer and a couple ukuleles and have some lovely wood waiting to become a guitar. Sorry I digress.
Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

As Scratchypants states, you want to end up with as close as possible to quarter sawn strips.

If at all possible buy Flat grain, 1 X stock.

this will save a lot of extra work, and less waste.

 

[PeteStaehling]

As Scratchypants states, you want to end up with as close as possible to quarter sawn strips.

If at all possible buy Flat grain, 1 X stock.

this will save a lot of extra work, and less waste.

The lines you drew are what I'd ideally look for. The actual grain in the piece is closer to what I often find with a lot of the grain somewhat off of vertical due to the curve, some portions by a good bit. Is the actual piece close enough to suffice?

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I can't comment on wood selection or boat building, but I have a lot of experience driving very long distances and many days to pick up most of the 17 canoes and kayaks I've bought. I've driven as far as Connecticut to California and back, a trip that ended up being about 10,000 miles and 44 days. Many, many other times I've driven over a thousand miles for a canoe.

In retrospect, never have I regretted the driving time or expense it took initially to acquire the exact boat I preferred, sometimes for minor performance or aesthetic reasons. NEVER.

 

[PeteStaehling]

I can't comment on wood selection or boat building, but I have a lot of experience driving very long distances and many days to pick up most of the 17 canoes and kayaks I've bought. I've driven as far as Connecticut to California and back, a trip that ended up being about 10,000 miles and 44 days. Many, many other times I've driven over a thousand miles for a canoe.

In retrospect, never have I regretted the driving time or expense it took initially to acquire the exact boat I preferred, sometimes for minor performance or aesthetic reasons. NEVER.

Yeah, I see your point, but while I have driven as much as 2000 miles round trip on lumber acquisition trips for musical instrument building (with other excuses for the trip thrown in), driving to Home Depots doesn't have the same appeal as cool lumber mills.

 

[Jim Dodd]

The lines you drew are what I'd ideally look for. The actual grain in the piece is closer to what I often find with a lot of the grain somewhat off of vertical due to the curve, some portions by a good bit. Is the actual piece close enough to suffice?

Too bad trees don't grow Flat ! Ha ! If they did, all the strips would be perfect Quarter sawn ! You take what the tree gives you ! Bigger trees on the outside give somewhat flatter grain.