Yes, I do bead and cove my strips. My reasoning for cutting them to size before B&C is to leave a slight flat edge where the cove Isn't cut all the way to the edge, leaving a sharp edge that could be broken off while handling. I'm sure the way you process your strips you've found a way to minimize any breakage on the edges or just Don't worry about it and let the cove of the joining strip fill in that space. Probably overkill on my part. I'm still surprised that the local home improvement store in Florida, wouldn't have WRC. The paulownia sounds interesting as strip material if you could find it in at least 8 ' lengths at a reasonable price.
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Strips for Pack Canoe Build in FL Panhandle
- Thread starter PeteStaehling
- Start date
Perhaps I am wrong. I'll have to make a trip out to look at what the big boxes have. The problem is that I don't think they label most of what they do have as anything more specific that just "cedar". Looking online I do see some listed as "eastern red cedar" and the rest as either just "cedar" or "aromatic cedar".
Given that it isn't labeled the next step would be asking the employees, but experience tells me not to trust that.
That leaves identifying it myself. I know very little about cedar species. If it is as simple as deciding between two species like the decision in the following link, I think I can make a good id, but I suspect it is more complicated that that with other species complicating the identification. https://www.wood-database.com/wood-a...dar-confusion/
So, can I just look at it and apply the binary identification criteria in that link?
FWIW, the local lumber yard I queried has not gotten back to me yet and I plan to call one that is a half day effort to go to to see what he has if anything. I don't recall seeing any cedar when I have been there before (he is mostly a hardwood dealer).
EDIT:
I made a trip to the big box stores.
Lowes had nominal 1":
Home Depot had nominal 3/4":
I do not know if the species is Western Red Cedar in either case. It is labeled as just "cedar" on the shelves and on their web page. At Home Depot I wasn't sure it was all the same species looking at the color and grain. Was that 3/4x12 in the middle even cedar?
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The goal IMO is a lightweight core material. Some builders prefer white cedar over WRC because of it being lighter than red. I can't find white cedar in lower Michigan that's clear enough for me. Looking at the prices in the pic it makes me wonder how close Divinicel is in price to cedar. I'll bet Jim Dodd has a good idea off the top of his head how many board feet of cedar it would take for your Packboat so you could compare the cost of each. Hopefully he will chime in. Of course the comparison between a wood boat to a composite boat for looks is a different subject.
Painting a composite boat with an outdoor durable finish sounds like at least one redeeming feature too. I guess that cedar can be painted too, but... On the other hand one of the reasons for considering building in the first place was that I like woodworking.
Should you decide to build with a composite core, you can still satisfy your woodworking desires while cutting out forms, and adding batten strips between forms..shaping them, etc.
And should you decide on a wood core, a painted exterior and natural finish interior can be a thing of beauty, but also accentuates any flaws in the hulls fairness, as there is no attractive color and grain to detract your eye.
And should you decide on a wood core, a painted exterior and natural finish interior can be a thing of beauty, but also accentuates any flaws in the hulls fairness, as there is no attractive color and grain to detract your eye.
I agree with Wingnut. I use what fills the bill, and I can afford.
I do recognise the pricing labels Pete. Any of those would be fine. I Have a Menards Chain, where I buy almost all my WRC. Guessing you don't have a Menards.
How much wood ? I like the idea of More is better, Cutting extra strips gives you more choices, when it come to sorting, while building. You always have a few that just don't make the grade. I will buy an extra plank, if I feel it necessary.
So for a bare minimum. A Solo Pack boat, say 13' in length, I'd buy 14' length planks. I figure. 24" width combined. two 1" x 12", or three 1" x 8" , or four 1" x 6" Planks.
14' planks can easily build a 13.5' canoe.
A Skilsaw and a strongback, make a great strip cutting combination ! Yielding the most uniform strips, as opposed to a table saw, or band saw.
I look first for Clear, or as clear as possible, and Flat grain 1 X planks. If they are flat grained, and I can get full length strips from at least half the plank ? They have a chance to come home with me.
A side note, I believe Wood is your best option, over foam. Price and long time durability, not to mention appearance !
I do recognise the pricing labels Pete. Any of those would be fine. I Have a Menards Chain, where I buy almost all my WRC. Guessing you don't have a Menards.
How much wood ? I like the idea of More is better, Cutting extra strips gives you more choices, when it come to sorting, while building. You always have a few that just don't make the grade. I will buy an extra plank, if I feel it necessary.
So for a bare minimum. A Solo Pack boat, say 13' in length, I'd buy 14' length planks. I figure. 24" width combined. two 1" x 12", or three 1" x 8" , or four 1" x 6" Planks.
14' planks can easily build a 13.5' canoe.
A Skilsaw and a strongback, make a great strip cutting combination ! Yielding the most uniform strips, as opposed to a table saw, or band saw.
I look first for Clear, or as clear as possible, and Flat grain 1 X planks. If they are flat grained, and I can get full length strips from at least half the plank ? They have a chance to come home with me.
A side note, I believe Wood is your best option, over foam. Price and long time durability, not to mention appearance !
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I used some eastern red cedar, also known as aromatic cedar, and sassafras because it was local wood here in East TN., some was free barn lumber. Both of these woods are around 32lb/ft3. Little heavy and lots of knots. I think the light color sassafras resembles the basswood color, but grainier. I used lots of short, some were 3 foot long and most were 6 to 9 feet long. Lots of joints. 3/16 thick and bead and cove. All wood was air dried rough sawmill cut. Lots of cutting and sorting. Adding a few accent strips to a "plain looking wood" makes a huge difference. If you are shooting for a very light boat find the lightest wieght wood you can get, but you don't need full length strips.
These folks on here were a great source of inspiration and help.
These folks on here were a great source of inspiration and help.
Attachments
How did you join the short pieces? Join the strips? Join the planks before cutting the strips? Did you scarf them or butt them? Full length scarfs?
I got tired of sorting through my rough stock trying to figure out how to get the most out of it, so I just started ripping my strips out of the boards. Then took all strips, didn't matter about length, and ran them through my router table to cut the bead and coves. I had alot of stuff that was just to short to handle safely on my router table, wood stove fuel. I cut through knots and sappy soft spots. As long as strips were 3/16 thick and consistent with bead and cove, anything over 2 foot I ran with it. I did scarf my first shear strips on the basement floor. The rest of the strips fell where they may. I put glue on the butt ends, and clamped them. I did try to match the grain pattern up as best I could on the butt joints. This took some time sorting through strips of similar wood. The bead and coves helped keep the butt joints locked in. I was very carefull when I approached the ends of the canoe because of the twists and tighter bends. I did have a bad accident when I was half way done stripping with my hull. The stongback was to high, so I tried to lower it. I accidentally rolled the whole thing over on top of me, I did break its fall some, but I busted my shear and next strip. I cut about a foot of the busted shear strip out, and 7 inches of the next one, and pieced in matching pieces with butt joints. I would have to look really hard to find it now. Most of it is covered by the gunwales. Some butt joints didn't quite fit together so well, and I could see light through the gap. A little thickened and colored epoxy took care of the that. I felt like I was making a mess out of it. Sorry so long. I talk to much. I will build another one.
I look forward to following along on your build.
I look forward to following along on your build.
I appreciate you and others taking the time to type long complete comments They are very helpful.
All of that makes the case for bead and cove a bit stronger. I was have been considering planing the edges and have still not completely ruled that out, but can see where locking in the edges with bead and cove would make butt joints easier. Otoh, a temporary backer piece and a couple clamps during gluing would probably suffice.
I don't have a real plan for when or how fast the project will progress. The plan was initially for it to be something to do inside during the oppressive Tallassee heat next summer, but I am getting antsy to start doing something. I may go ahead and choose a design and start cutting forms, making a strongback and so on.
BTW, would it be shortsighted to build a strongback the length needed for a pack canoe assuming that when/if I build something longer in the future I can build an extension? It seems like adding an additional section should be do-able. I could even see making the initial ~13' one two piece for storage purposes.
Sounds like a good rule of thumb measure.
I was planning to bandsaw and run it through the thickness sander if I necessary. I do a ton of resawing to make veneers or close to veneer thickness (most often ~0.090") in making sound boards and other parts for musical instruments and find I can get less waste even after thickness sanding. I don't know for sure that will apply to sawing strips for canoe building. I'll try cutting a few both ways and see what works best for me. I would bot have guessed that the skillsaw option would have been a great choice.
While some of what is there looks fairly nice, there are not very many boards to pick from here in my neighborhood Lowes and most are shorter lengths. I may need to drive to a bunch of stores or pick over the bin here over a long period of time or not be very particular. There are two Lowes in Tallahassee so perhaps the other one has more and there are several more in other small cities within 100 miles, but driving 60-100 miles each way to dig through a pile that may or may not yield any decent boards is not an attractive option unless going near there anyway. I love going to distant lumber mills, but somehow that enthusiasm doesn't include a half day trip to go to a Lowes.
I don't think they had a single 14' board and only a very few 12' ones in 1" in any width. Home Depot had no 1" boards at all, only 3/4".
Search for Menards. They have always given me the best planks and prices. Best of all ? They carry 16' Cedar !
Search the Skilsaw saw method. Truly the best, for cutting strips. I've never needed to plane after cutting with a skilsaw. The uniformity is hard to believe !
Jim
Search the Skilsaw saw method. Truly the best, for cutting strips. I've never needed to plane after cutting with a skilsaw. The uniformity is hard to believe !
Jim
I looked through the Lowes and Home Depot here. They had some Western cedar siding, but it was max thickness of maybe 3/4" and then it tappers to thin on the other side. I guess it's lap siding. It wasn't very cheap either. I just looked up Menards. I don't think they have a store any further south then Kentucky or Virginia. I would have to drive North about 150 miles or so?. Canoe just ain't a southern thing.
I have seen that stuff here in Florida. It doesn't look very good source to make strips from. I had considered trying a piece of it to make a sound board for a dulcimer when a customer requested cedar, but convinced them to use sinker cypress.
I keep mentioning my luthier stuff and figured a couple pictures might be in order. This isn't that dulcimer, but it is a recent one that I built with a sinker cypress top and English walnut back. That ancient old growth bald cypress makes a nice tone wood. Lying in the mud on the bottom of a river for 100+ years doesn't seem to hurt the logs from what are sometimes supposedly1000+ year old trees.
Update:
I tried emailing Feather Canoes 9 days ago asking for advice on sources of cedar or premade strips in the region and have not heard back. I just messaged them on their FB page. Hopefully they will be more responsive there. Maybe it is a one man shop and he is out tripping. Otherwise I tend to get less inclined to order from businesses that don't respond to queries somewhat promptly. I was considering ordering the book and patterns for the Wee Lassie 2, but balked at placing the order when I didn't hear back from my email query.
I tried emailing Feather Canoes 9 days ago asking for advice on sources of cedar or premade strips in the region and have not heard back. I just messaged them on their FB page. Hopefully they will be more responsive there. Maybe it is a one man shop and he is out tripping. Otherwise I tend to get less inclined to order from businesses that don't respond to queries somewhat promptly. I was considering ordering the book and patterns for the Wee Lassie 2, but balked at placing the order when I didn't hear back from my email query.
Beautiful instrument! Thanks for posting the photos. You will have no trouble building a canoe!
Hoping you hear from them.
Mac has been gone for quite some time.
I'm assuming his family is still involved.
Good Luck ! Jim
I read that his son John was still involved, but the email address on the page is tom@feathercanoes.com. So I am not sure if Tom is family to Mac or not. Anyway I am still hoping to hear back. I am hoping that it is just a small operation and the one guy who runs things is out of town paddling. Otherwise I tend to sour on companies that don't respond to queries. When you put up a page and have a link to email you have a responsibility to be at least somewhat timely in responding. If you don't respond to that or messages on your FB page for long enough I'll move on to someone else unless I hear that there was a good reason.
There should only be a reasonable excuse for a very small operation. Health issues, family issues, or travel might be legit excuses for a one man or mom and pop shop, but not for a bigger operation.
Still holding out hope, but my patience is not unlimited.
Tom from Feather got back to me promptly on my second email attempt. My first try got caught up in their spam filter or something.
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