Solo expedition build

[Alan Gage]

Last build of the season before the water opens up. No doubt open water will appear before I'm done but there will still be plenty of cold and windy days to work in the shop. This will be, hopefully, my ideal solo expedition canoe....or at least a step in the right direction. The aim is to paddle it down the Bloodvein River late this summer and then turn around and paddle back up. Quite a bit of lake paddling and portaging as I work my way through WCPP and plenty of rapids on the Bloodvein.

It's been fun coming up with a design for this one. Very challenging to balance capacity, moving water maneuverability, and speed. I won't know if I've got it right, or even close, until I can spend some time paddling it. 16.5' long. 30" max width, 28" more or less at the water line at 350 pounds, and around 26" at the gunwales. Pretty heavily rounded bottom and lots of flare above the water line. Heights from bow to stern: 19, 13.5, 16. Fair amount of rocker fore and aft. It's hard to say how much since it makes a big difference where you measure and there's no standardization. A good couple inches anyway. I hope to finalize the design by the end of the week and start putting it together the following.

The shop's been cleaned up and tonight I ripped most of the strips. I'm doing 1/4" strips below the water line and 3/16" above. I went back to the table saw to rip strips after using a band saw on the last couple builds. More waste with the 1/16" blade kerf but, so far, I'm happier with the consistency and and the finish left by the blade. I already have a nice outfeed table around my saw so setup took no time at all, just grabbed a sawhorse to support the board on the infeed side and set the fence. The cutting went much quicker too. I'll find out for sure just how consistent they are when I start laying them down and sanding. If I'm still not happy I'll probably go back to the bandsaw, work on getting it set up better, and finish them in the planer for consistency.

I know I need to keep it strong but I'll try and cut weight where I can, I can't help it. Probably carbon seat and thwarts. Hopefully a detachable carbon yoke and, if I get really ambitious, I'd like to take a shot at foam and carbon gunwales. That stuff (carbon) sure is expensive though.....

Alan

 

[Canotrouge]

Will follow you true the process for sure!!
Cheers

 

[Jim Dodd]

Hi Alan
How about adding tumblehome to a Prospector ?

I'm assuming there are class two rapids involved !

Right now if I were to build, I'd take my Pearl To the print shop and slightly enlarge. Stretch the forms accordingly, And add some hull height.

Maybe better than adding hull height would be to fit a snap cover, and save you from all the wind resistance?

My Pearl has a good amount of flare, enough to keep me dry in occasional class 2 rapids( Lizard Creek, Ft Dodge) I'm about 225#. At 350# load, that would not be enough.
The 38Spl is just a little shy of flare, in my opinion for this situation. Add flare to it, and I'd take a hard look at it !

I'd highly recommend a skilsaw for your strip cutting ! So easy with great results. Sorry If I'm pushing the skilsaw, just saying how well it works !

Keep us posted, as it sounds interesting !

Jim

 

[Momentum]

We are all eagerly awaiting this one Alan. No doubt, it'll be full of great ideas that we can steal, er um...I mean use.
Your last one that was donated was quite pretty. I know it really wasn't your cup of tea,, but pretty none the less.

Looking forward to it.

Momentum

 

[Guest]

Maybe better than adding hull height would be to fit a snap cover, and save you from all the wind resistance?

Given Alan’s demonstrated skills and inventiveness I wonder if perhaps there is some more clever way to build-in spray cover attachment points.

I have custom CCS covers on two of my open canoes and find them very helpful in shedding wind and wave. Both are snap attachment, which can be a bit of a nuisance. I like the concept of the Northwater attachments, especially if the line is replaced with bungee, but I wouldn’t want those hooks spaced along the sides of my canoe.

When I read the subject heading “Solo Expedition Build” my first thought was “decked canoe”. Maybe there is another way to design and build spray cover attachments.

 

[Alan Gage]

A partially decked canoe or spray skirt would be nice but I've got a bow riding dog to consider, so no skirt up front. Perhaps in the stern for shedding wind. I have given some thought to other ways of attaching spray skirts but haven't pursued anything. I've never tried the "traditional" snap method used by CCS and others so I don't know how well it works or how much hassle it is. I will need to come up with attachment points for securing gear. I'll burn that bridge when I get there. I do think I'll be building in some pretty decent sized float tanks in the bow and stern.

Jim - I've never heard of the "Pearl." Is this your own design or are plans available?

Made some pretty big changes to the lines above the water line last night. Thought I had quite a bit of flare until I went out and measured the width of my Kite (Osprey) in 1' increments from the bow back to 4'. The flare I had designed it was pretty much the same as the Kite has. Not too bad but I added some more. More tweaking to go. Seems there's always more tweaking....

I'll try and get some lines posted tonight.

Alan

 

[Holmes375]

....Both are snap attachment, which can be a bit of a nuisance. I like the concept of the Northwater attachments, especially if the line is replaced with bungee, but I wouldn’t want those hooks spaced along the sides of my canoe....

I'm in talks currently with Northwater regarding a 3 piece for my Magic. The Northwater deck uses a series of loop patches or what I've always called soft padeyes. The external loop appears to be very small from the pictures I've examined which is attractive to me. I like the variable load adjustment offered by their system and I'll probably go that way. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but getting close

 

[Guest]

A partially decked canoe or spray skirt would be nice but I've got a bow riding dog to consider, so no skirt up front. Perhaps in the stern for shedding wind. I have given some thought to other ways of attaching spray skirts but haven't pursued anything. I've never tried the "traditional" snap method used by CCS and others so I don't know how well it works or how much hassle it is.

I hadn’t considered the bow dog. I often use just the front cover on the OT Penobscot, if only for the paddle pocket and Velcro lash tabs to keep various paddles, sail and pole secured and easily at hand.

The snap method is OK. It can be a PITA with cold fingers, and if it is dry/low humidity it is best to wet down the CCS nylon covers before installation so they are more stretchable, especially with a slightly above gunwales load. I just dunk the whole stuff bag of covers in the river and put them flopplily on when I have finished packing the canoe.

A spray cover on the stern section could be just as handy as one over the bow. Slip the paddle/spare paddle/whatever into a pocket on the stern tip and lash the shaft down behind or beside you.

I am absolutely convinced that even a partial/half spray cover has advantage beyond just paddle storage, which is a distinct boon when switching paddles. Or when landing in rough conditions when you would really like to have the paddles secured and both hands free to horse the canoe ashore

Aside from nasty wave swept landings my most challenging open water paddling experiences have been in a strong tailwind, surfing waves on the edge of my comfort control zone. Exactly when I really didn’t want any hull-slewing force enveloping an open stern sail.

There has to be a better design-build way to attach a spray cover, especially on a one-off design build.

If the outwales had a slightly bulbous shape maybe a sil-nylon cover with Kydex U clips that would snap on the outwales. On a symmetrical canoe that same cover would probably fit the bow if properly length proportioned.

 

[Jim Dodd]

The Pearl started life as Bob Browns Pirate. I don't believe the plans are still available. It was a flared hull.

I liked the Pirate but it needed tumblehome. So I added tumblehome to the forms from Bruce Kunz's Merlin. I also rockered the stem forms. And named it the Pearl.
Both Bob and Bruce were smaller statured men. Their canoes reflected that. That's were Bruce computer enlarged the Merlin and called it the 38Spl. A Great hull.

Now to compare the Pearl to the Merlin. The Pearl has flare, and is more maneuverable than the Merlin. Giving it the edge in rough water. I love it !

Presently the hull I'm building . Is the Pearl with the center form about 6" aft of center. Stretching the fore station spacing, and shortening the aft stations until everything fares out.

Have I lost you yet ? I know it's complicated.

I can't wait to paddle it !

I'd be happy to let you test paddle it, and the Pearl. But I know you want to get underway with your new build.

Jim

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm looking forward to meeting you this spring, Jim. I've never met anyone around here that had just as many, or more, canoes than I did. I think we could have a lot of fun together.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Getting close.....I think. Hoping to finish up the design and print forms by the end of the weekend. Any input welcome. 16.5' long. 30" max width and 26"@gunwale. Heights roughly 19, 13, 16.

Water line is shaded in white @ 350 pounds. A little discrepancy as to displacement. When I export the hull into another software program it calculates this same water line as 390 pounds displacement. Not quite sure which to believe......

Bloodvein sections by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Bloodvein profile by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Close up of the stern so you can decide for yourself where to measure rocker:

Bloodvein profile stern by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Same for the bow:

Bloodvein profile bow by Alan Gage, on Flickr

View of the bottom. Water line shaded in white.

Bloodvein below by Alan Gage, on Flickr

And finally a view from the top. Different rendering colors on this one make it more clear:

Bloodvein above by Alan Gage, on Flickr

Alan

 

[Canotrouge]

Interesting.

 

[Guest]

And finally a view from the top. Different rendering colors on this one make it more clear:

Bloodvein above by Alan Gage, on Flickr

I like the flare in bow and stern and shoulders at the solo paddling station. Interesting design; what would be close in a manufacturer’s model?

I’ll be watching this one, maybe with a little drool.

 

[memaquay]

I totally would have built that if you would have sold me the plans, pre Chum. I even have an idea for a name. I seem to recall that you like red wine. I have had this one before, nothing special, pretty pedestrian actually, but the name is awesome.


Now I'm not saying the canoe is a fat b*st*rd, but it could certainly carry one around in style. I could see a nice italic script mid canoe The Fat b*st*rd Paddling and Portaging Club - Prototype # 1.

You know, a canoe like that could make you some money. I think it was Charlie W. who mentioned something about the ongoing "supersizing" of the canoeist. I'm a prime example, a representative of the latest generation of paddlers, the FB generation.

Can't wait to see this one take shape, I hope you get right to it, as I am completely bed ridden at the moment, and in need of diversion!

 

[Jim Dodd]

I think you have something there Alan !
I really like it !
I see all the features that you specified !

I might not run the tumblehome so far out towards the ends. I think it would make it easier to build, and remove your packs when you portage.

How thick are you going to cut your strips ?

Jim

PS. You're going to be excited to build this one !
I'm looking forward to seeing it !

 

[Alan Gage]

Catchy name, Mem. I might have a hard time not referring to it as that from here on out. Seen the wine on the shelf, haven't tried it yet. Maybe for the christening.

what would be close in a manufacturer’s model?

I don't quite know what commercial hulls it compares to. I did give the SRT and Shearwater a pretty good look to get an idea for shear height and rocker and I tried to find pictures showing the hull shape and flare but that was pretty slim pickins. It was helpful to have a Kite (Osprey) out in my shed that I built a few years ago to take some measurements from in person, which showed me I should probably add more flare in the bow. I've never paid much attention to fat b*st*rd hulls, preferring the skinny minnies, so while I doubt the design is entirely unique I don't really know what it resembles.

I might not run the tumblehome so far out towards the ends. I think it would make it easier to build, and remove your packs when you portage.

That's a good thought. I did try to end it a bit more abruptly than I normally would towards the stern for that reason but it wouldn't be a bad idea to try and cut it down a little more.

How thick are you going to cut your strips ?

1/4" below the water line and 3/16" above.
I used 1/4" strips on my first build about 4 years ago but on my last three have been using between 1/8" and 3/16". As a result those 1/4" strips feel like working with 2x4's. So thick and stiff! They're really nice to work with though and easier to cut the bead and cove on with seemingly less tear out on the router.

Can't wait to see this one take shape, I hope you get right to it, as I am completely bed ridden at the moment, and in need of diversion!

Well you know me, I don't like to rush into things. I'd rather take a nice leisurely pace and enjoy the ride, there's no race to the finish line you know. But just for you I'll see if I can get a move on.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

Memaquay: Since you're bedridden and looking for diversion maybe you'd like to play around with hull design yourself. You can download Delftship for free with only a couple features disabled that you don't even need for messing around with canoes. I thought the initial learning curve was very steep and had trouble doing anything. But after persevering through that (a few days) it wasn't too bad. Still a ton I don't know but it's easy enough to drag the lines around and make pretty shapes.

http://www.delftship.net/DELFTship/index.php/delftship/delftship-free

Kayak foundry is another free one that's super easy to use. It's made for kayaks and will insist you have a deck on the boat but if you flatten the deck so that it's the same height as the shear it will pass for a canoe. It's quite powerful and you can do about any hull shape you want but adding tumblehome for canoes is the hard/impossible part. But it will give you water line for any given load, all those confusing coefficients, and resistance calculations. Fun stuff and, like I said, very user friendly.

http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/kayak/index.html

It's fun to make small or radical changes to hull shape and see how resistance is affected. I was surprised to find that many times it didn't work as I expected.

Alan

 

[memaquay]

Alan, thanks for that link, I will have a look at it after the meds wear off, wouldn't want to design something that ended up looking like an elephants trunk. I have high hopes for this new one you are working on, it really looks like the canoe I've been needing for a long time. I convinced my buddy, the auto teacher, to build a Pal a few weeks ago. We got a real good start on it, but ran out of cedar. I texted him yesterday, he was in T Bay picking up a lift of cedar, which works out to 294 2 x 4's. So I think I've got enough cedar to build another canoe in the future.

 

[Guest]

I don't quite know what commercial hulls it compares to. I did give the SRT and Shearwater a pretty good look to get an idea for shear height and rocker and I tried to find pictures showing the hull shape and flare but that was pretty slim pickins. It was helpful to have a Kite (Osprey) out in my shed that I built a few years ago to take some measurements from in person, which showed me I should probably add more flare in the bow. I've never paid much attention to fat b*st*rd hulls, preferring the skinny minnies, so while I doubt the design is entirely unique I don't really know what it resembles.

The sheerline flare bow and stern remind me of some hull I have seen, but I can’t put my finger on it. That one might have been a one-off and not a manufacturer hull.

The top view is kind of the opposite of some pro-boats like the Savage River JD or Corbin.

 

[Mihun09]

Well you know me, I don't like to rush into things. I'd rather take a nice leisurely pace and enjoy the ride, there's no race to the finish line you know.
Alan

This would be prudent given the purpose of the boat. It certainly isn't at all like you to just want to get 'er done.