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Second canoe
- Thread starter hautamak
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When people are talking about flare they're talking about the width of the canoe from bottom to top.
Parallel sides like this would be no flare: | |
Flare would be more like this: \ /
And this would be reversed flare: / \
A hull with flare gets wider the deeper it gets pushed into the water. So usually we like to have the bow of the canoe flared so that when we go through a wave it pushes the water away.
In the center of a solo canoe we like some tumblehome (reversed flare) to make it easier to reach over the sides when paddling.
On the last design you posted I think the transition to tumblehome might be too low and abrupt (sudden), resulting in low secondary stability. In a canoe with reversed flare above the water line (tumblehome) waves are more likely to wash over the side and as the canoe is tilted on its side it will loose stability (because there is less volume). So it's a compromise between seaworthiness and paddling comfort as we add/subtract tumblehome. Generally you want the transition to be as high as possible. If it's lower then it should be gradual.
The extremes are USCA C1 racing canoes where there is a very abrupt low transition to the tumblehome. These are incredibly unstable boats once they start to tip a little. The other extreme is something like the Winters designed Kite where center of the hull has constant flare under nearly the top when it suddenly tucks in for a little bit of tumblehome. This is sometimes called a "knuckle". This allows the center of the canoe to shed waves better and significantly adds to the stability as the boat is heeled over (leaned). A shape in the middle of those two designs, and also quite popular and successful, would be something like the Magic.
The way I understand is is that a fish-form (water drop) offers the lowest resistance to a completely submerged vessel (submarine) but a swede-form (reversed water drop) is more efficient for regular boats and ships that are creating waves at the water surface.
I think you can mostly ignore the finer points of canoe efficiency. If you're just looking to get out and paddle it doesn't matter. There is very little difference in effort required to move canoes with minor hull shape variations at most people's normal paddling speeds. But if you like to paddle hard and go fast for extended periods of time then you should pay more attention to them.
More important will be things like rocker, which affect how straight the canoe travels. It sounds to me like you might be looking for something that tracks as straight as possible. If that's the case then build something with no rocker. It's easy to design and it was once a very popular canoe design. People got along just fine paddling that way and there are still many popular canoes produced today with no rocker. I've had canoes with no rocker and had a great time paddling them, even on moving water.
You'll want some roundness or V shape to the bottom of the canoe for strength if nothing else. It doesn't have to be extreme but the flatter it is the weaker it will be.
From what you've written so far I'd be inclined to build a symmetrical 15' canoe with no rocker. Take your height specs from a Magic. I'd shoot for maximum hull width of 29-30" and a gunwale width of 26-27". Tumblehome either in the shape of something like a Magic or higher and sharper like the Kite.
Alan
Parallel sides like this would be no flare: | |
Flare would be more like this: \ /
And this would be reversed flare: / \
A hull with flare gets wider the deeper it gets pushed into the water. So usually we like to have the bow of the canoe flared so that when we go through a wave it pushes the water away.
In the center of a solo canoe we like some tumblehome (reversed flare) to make it easier to reach over the sides when paddling.
On the last design you posted I think the transition to tumblehome might be too low and abrupt (sudden), resulting in low secondary stability. In a canoe with reversed flare above the water line (tumblehome) waves are more likely to wash over the side and as the canoe is tilted on its side it will loose stability (because there is less volume). So it's a compromise between seaworthiness and paddling comfort as we add/subtract tumblehome. Generally you want the transition to be as high as possible. If it's lower then it should be gradual.
The extremes are USCA C1 racing canoes where there is a very abrupt low transition to the tumblehome. These are incredibly unstable boats once they start to tip a little. The other extreme is something like the Winters designed Kite where center of the hull has constant flare under nearly the top when it suddenly tucks in for a little bit of tumblehome. This is sometimes called a "knuckle". This allows the center of the canoe to shed waves better and significantly adds to the stability as the boat is heeled over (leaned). A shape in the middle of those two designs, and also quite popular and successful, would be something like the Magic.
The way I understand is is that a fish-form (water drop) offers the lowest resistance to a completely submerged vessel (submarine) but a swede-form (reversed water drop) is more efficient for regular boats and ships that are creating waves at the water surface.
I think you can mostly ignore the finer points of canoe efficiency. If you're just looking to get out and paddle it doesn't matter. There is very little difference in effort required to move canoes with minor hull shape variations at most people's normal paddling speeds. But if you like to paddle hard and go fast for extended periods of time then you should pay more attention to them.
More important will be things like rocker, which affect how straight the canoe travels. It sounds to me like you might be looking for something that tracks as straight as possible. If that's the case then build something with no rocker. It's easy to design and it was once a very popular canoe design. People got along just fine paddling that way and there are still many popular canoes produced today with no rocker. I've had canoes with no rocker and had a great time paddling them, even on moving water.
You'll want some roundness or V shape to the bottom of the canoe for strength if nothing else. It doesn't have to be extreme but the flatter it is the weaker it will be.
From what you've written so far I'd be inclined to build a symmetrical 15' canoe with no rocker. Take your height specs from a Magic. I'd shoot for maximum hull width of 29-30" and a gunwale width of 26-27". Tumblehome either in the shape of something like a Magic or higher and sharper like the Kite.
Alan
Thanks for input.
Okay, the flare thing is clear now.
I lowered the transition to tumblehome, it is still pretty low, but I'm not going in big waves
I'll go with 1inch rocker, and maybe little more V- or U-shape to bottom. height at middle is going to be 12 inch.
Does asymmetrical canoe have any cons? I really like how those look, so I wonder If I still would make this one asymmetric..
Okay, the flare thing is clear now.
I lowered the transition to tumblehome, it is still pretty low, but I'm not going in big waves
I'll go with 1inch rocker, and maybe little more V- or U-shape to bottom. height at middle is going to be 12 inch.
Does asymmetrical canoe have any cons? I really like how those look, so I wonder If I still would make this one asymmetric..
Have you considered looking at solo plans to get something that meets your needs .... there are lots available, surely one will spark your interest. At the very least it will give you something to start with, then you could redesign some of the aspects knowing that the basic design is sound.
You will be putting a lot of effort into building the boat, starting with a good design seems to be near the top of the things important to a successful build.
Brian
You will be putting a lot of effort into building the boat, starting with a good design seems to be near the top of the things important to a successful build.
Brian
I thought that and I did look starting point from solo plans which I edited.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/160875754@N08/290003
There is my flickr where you can follow my build.
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Canoe design is as complicated as you want to make it. Solo designs are all over the place. Length gives canoes speed, but length makes them heavier. A flat bottom is good for the shallows but makes them slower. Flatter canoes have good intiatl stability, but poor secondary stability.
I just found an 1989 OT Canadienne in kevlar. It is 15'10" and weights 51 pounds. I just repaired it and painted it and plan to use it as a solo boat. It has very fine entry lines and a beam of only 32 inches. It goes like a rocket and it is the fastest canoe I have ever paddled. Just right for me and the dog with an overnight load. It is a little tender at first but has good secondary stability. It will slice through waves so I will be quarter big waves on rivers.
I just found an 1989 OT Canadienne in kevlar. It is 15'10" and weights 51 pounds. I just repaired it and painted it and plan to use it as a solo boat. It has very fine entry lines and a beam of only 32 inches. It goes like a rocket and it is the fastest canoe I have ever paddled. Just right for me and the dog with an overnight load. It is a little tender at first but has good secondary stability. It will slice through waves so I will be quarter big waves on rivers.
This canoe aims for speed and lightness, of course I had to make compromises with speed and dropped canoe lenght to "only" 4,5 meters. I did make the bottom shallow U/V shape to compensate speed loss. Will see how this one turns out..
Fun has begun
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Looks good! Just a quick note, unless you are a very careful gluer, you might want to tape your stations so the strips don't stick to them. Ask me how I know, lol.
Wait? I knew I forgot something.. hope that those strips don't stick very thigh... going to tape them before stripping any more.
Thanks for note, I probably should done entire canoe without taping.
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I once purchased strips that had been finger jointed like that. I really liked it. Did you do your own?
Yes tape those forms, and stems as well. Especially the stem forms !!!! I like clear packaging tape, but masking tape is fine also. I'd make sure my strips didn't stick to the stem forms, before continueing ! Pull the staples, and slip a thin putty knife between the stem forms and the strips !!!!
" A stitch in time, saves 9 ! "
The design looks good !
Stemless and bead and cove ! Great ! You saved yourself a lot of time and work ! You did your home work !
I have also used finger joined strips ! The joint is not that visible, once it's glassed. They did work however !
Here is a trick to check the vertical alignment of your stems. Staple a couple of scrap strips on the same side of each stem form, and sight down the center, to confirm proper alignment.
Jim
" A stitch in time, saves 9 ! "
The design looks good !
Stemless and bead and cove ! Great ! You saved yourself a lot of time and work ! You did your home work !
I have also used finger joined strips ! The joint is not that visible, once it's glassed. They did work however !
Here is a trick to check the vertical alignment of your stems. Staple a couple of scrap strips on the same side of each stem form, and sight down the center, to confirm proper alignment.
Jim
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Pics didn't show but you mean this
http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y390/JimDodd/DSCN0076_zpsplh4ydu9.jpg
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Yes ! You did do your Home work !
That pic takes me back , to when I was and building at my old place.
Thanks !
Jim
Progress made. There is now coming the hard part, where strips start turning to bottom. Not all my forms were good, had to remake nro. 2 and 4. There is still little bumbs at front of canoe..
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Lookin Good !
Not a lot of glue oozing out of the joints !
Are you applying a little glue at the joint, where the two strips meet at the ends ? I always have glue running down the ends.
Again, Looking good !
I have the same Fish scale you have hanging on the wall ! Ha !
Jim
Not a lot of glue oozing out of the joints !
Are you applying a little glue at the joint, where the two strips meet at the ends ? I always have glue running down the ends.
Again, Looking good !
I have the same Fish scale you have hanging on the wall ! Ha !
Jim
Yep, I apply small drop to end of strip. Not so much, wish all end joints be like those in photo but some have small gaps between strips.
Fish scale was used to weigh my selfmade bows pounds. Rowan, maple and juniper bows.
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