I know were all gonna die sometime, I just don't want my last words to be, "I wish I brought my gun"
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Rethinking Firearms
- Thread starter Black_Fly
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I know were all gonna die sometime, I just don't want my last words to be, "I wish I brought my gun"
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Back paw print in front paw print.
You guys mean an LCR? That would be quite a handful in 357. I might get the first round on target, but after that as a lefty they'd all be low right.
Yes,that's it. I don't think an SLR would be that effective.
I think you're correctomundo!
I was attacked at a put-in but a ex-con muscle-bound tattoo faced guy 20 years my junior, knife in hand, sporting an old gunshot wound on his face (learned later from deputy). I was helping a group of women launch their kayaks and it's a dang good thing I was there (and armed). This dude was certified nuts. My biggest regret is I didn't put him down, as he proceeded to attack an older couple right after he left us (and who knows how many since). That was the closest I've ever come to using lethal force, but I keep aware of bad things that happen in remote areas, including BWCA. Maybe the human density in Yukon doesn't create the kind of risk we deal with just going to the grocery store, and that's wonderful for those living and working in those environs. The rest of us can't afford to be complacent. Sorry if that bores anyone.
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I am fortunate that in 40+ years of canoe camping and backpacking I have never had an occasion where I felt threatened by another human and wished I had a firearm. I follow the proper practices for discouraging black bear visits, but carry a high pitched whistle, air horn and bear spray. I have only had a bear in my camp one time; I had to resort to the spray, which fortunately drove him off. I understand why some of you carry and trust your judgement that it's necessary but I'm happy not to have to worry about it.
I've only been attacked by a few cougars on canoe trips, and I gladly succumbed to a sound thrashing.
Lightweight Compact Revoler. LCR is correct. Any threats are going to be at short range. Sure it is light. So what. I can fire a .44 mag double action revolver with a larger frame as fast as I can pull the trigger and be on target the whole time. It is a matter of practice.
I have uttered the words "I should have brought a gun." many times. That's exactly why I started bringing one again almost 50 years ago.
If you have an outdoor career, if you see bears every day you are working, then your thinking can change. I no longer leave anything to chance. I want all the benefits of the doubt on my side.
Everyone is entitled to doing what is right for them. I refuse to be a fatalist. I am not paranoid, I have just experienced plenty of threats.
I have uttered the words "I should have brought a gun." many times. That's exactly why I started bringing one again almost 50 years ago.
If you have an outdoor career, if you see bears every day you are working, then your thinking can change. I no longer leave anything to chance. I want all the benefits of the doubt on my side.
Everyone is entitled to doing what is right for them. I refuse to be a fatalist. I am not paranoid, I have just experienced plenty of threats.
The one time I was glad I was armed was backpacking in the ADKs. We encountered a group of 4 young men and a woman. I assumed they were together,but the woman came with me and my son when we moved on. She said she was traveling alone and met the guys and they insisted she go with them. When i came along my shirt blew up showing my gun which I didn't realize, to them and one said"he"s got a gun". So she gratefully left with us.Who knows what might have happened. She said she didn't hate guns anymore.
Indeed on the practice. Still working off the flinch I developed from a 44 mag back when I was younger and dumber. I have an LCR in 327, but loaded with 32H&R most of the time. Not gonna be useful on a bear, but for any other eventuality should get the job done.
You get over flinching with repetition. Start with .38 caliber loads, then .38 +. Then .357 mag. The gun is small, but the caliber is not that hard to handle. Knowledge gives you confidence.
When I worked in Alaska I took a revolver the first trip, a Ruger single action in .44 mag. Once I saw the size of the bears, I nearly wet my pants. After that I carried a Marlin in .444, a lever action rifle. I made up some hand loads for it with the toughest bullets I could find. I practiced emptying the gun quickly about once a week. It is sort of like learning martial arts. Once people become proficient, they have confidence, and rarely need to use their skills. Carrying the rifle gave me more confidence to deal with bears and avoid conflicts with them. Firearms are really for situations where you have made a mistake or you are really unlucky.
If you run into 100 bears, maybe 4-5 of them are going to give you some trouble. If you have seen 5 bears in your life, the odds are on your side. If you see them all the time, then you want an equalizer, because you don't know what order they come in.
When I worked in Alaska I took a revolver the first trip, a Ruger single action in .44 mag. Once I saw the size of the bears, I nearly wet my pants. After that I carried a Marlin in .444, a lever action rifle. I made up some hand loads for it with the toughest bullets I could find. I practiced emptying the gun quickly about once a week. It is sort of like learning martial arts. Once people become proficient, they have confidence, and rarely need to use their skills. Carrying the rifle gave me more confidence to deal with bears and avoid conflicts with them. Firearms are really for situations where you have made a mistake or you are really unlucky.
If you run into 100 bears, maybe 4-5 of them are going to give you some trouble. If you have seen 5 bears in your life, the odds are on your side. If you see them all the time, then you want an equalizer, because you don't know what order they come in.
I think they make other protection for that type of encounter.
I am always amazed at the folks who feel a need to carry a weapon while in the back country. I have spent close to 30 years in the wilds and all together spent years living in tents. I have never once thought I wanted a weapon. I guess if one has a phobia and someone wants to carry a gun to make them feel better then fine with me. I know police officers that have rarely drawn their weapon in thirty years of work and they are out looking for trouble. As soon as a gun is pulled you are now in a gun fight which usually does not turn out well. Off course there are exceptions to the rule but crazy sociopaths are rare. A paddler is much more likely to drowned ,get hypothermia, bleed to death or receive sever burn then to need a weapon for a human encounter. Do all of you who carry guns carry the appropriate gear to handle those situations? A tourniquet, celox, good rain gear, WFR training would all be much more likely to save your life or your companion. I like to come up with list of risks and their likely occurrence and plan accordingly. A gun to protect my self from humans has never hit the list. As Memaquay says if one has bearphobia or human phobia and that is what helps you sleep at night then go ahead and carry the extra weight and expense. A gun is more likely to be a risk to you or someone with you then to save your butt and makes carrying a tourniquet that much more likely to be needed.
I will admit the only reason I have thought about carrying a weapon is for a rapid animal such as a racoon. That scares the crap out of me. Totally irrational fear and I take bigger risks driving or showering then my odds of meeting a rabid aggressive racoon. Sure it happens but not enough to add the risk of carrying a gun. Polar bears, possibly grizzly's, and out hunting are the only reason I can see to trip with a weapon. The world the USA and Canada are about as safe as they have ever been. Crime is low especially in the back country.
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I often take my shotgun in the spring and always in the fall. Sometimes the .22 if its grouse season. It does get to be a pita though to lug them around and if out during the summer I dont bother...that is fishing season. My biggest worry is dogs. God dang I hate people who let their dogs run loose and out of control. I think next time I get bit I will bear spray the owner.
As others have said, I dont feel particularly threatened in the woods but I also like to be prepared so some degree of deterrence is warranted. Bangers and spray for sure and often a shotgun for in camp. Its usually broken down in a pack or cased for travel.
I used to have a .44 magnum lever action but decided its a go big or stay home sort of deal so swapped that out for a shotgun with slugs / buckshot. If a threat is far enough away that I cant kill it with that then its not really a threat. Or supper.
As others have said, I dont feel particularly threatened in the woods but I also like to be prepared so some degree of deterrence is warranted. Bangers and spray for sure and often a shotgun for in camp. Its usually broken down in a pack or cased for travel.
I used to have a .44 magnum lever action but decided its a go big or stay home sort of deal so swapped that out for a shotgun with slugs / buckshot. If a threat is far enough away that I cant kill it with that then its not really a threat. Or supper.
I've gone through all kinds of training, and never once did I think I, or any of the others in the group, were being "phobic." I rarely carry in my hometown, but that is probably going to change. Once going into Lowes, I was approached by 3 punks in the parking lot who immediately disengaged when I exposed my 1911 under my shirt. Good thing I was paranoid that day.
Spent three months at a campground outside of Juneau. Bears really liked it there because RVers didn't bother to keep a clean camp. I was living in a tent, so I had both a 444 and a Ruger. Miss the Marlin, but the SBH not so much.
I bought the first gun of my life nine years ago, at age 66, because of the extensive bear threads on an ancestor of this site, solotripping.com.
I decided I could use some sort of firearm for home protection, for anticipated solo trips deep into bear country, for target practice on my 11 acres and at gun ranges, and, given that I sleep in my van in some sleazy places, also as protection for an itinerant old guy against homo sapien zombies. After a lot of helpful discussion on the forum, I bought a used Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge shotgun with a 28" bird barrel and a 20" slug barrel.
My wife threatened to leave me for bringing a dangerous weapon into our home.
Well, I've never fired the gun or even bought any shells for it. Aging and loss of paddling companions prevented me from taking most of my anticipated wilderness trips. My van escapades have diminished. Target practice, especially at gun ranges, turns out to be expensive in Connecticut. And, of course, I've never taken the gun with me in my van or on a canoe trip. I do carry two machetes, several knives, a baseball bat, and bear spray in my van.
What has changed in the last 10 years is the continued decline of family, religious and social structure in America, increased violence and crime, and a general decline and fall of civility, if not of American civilization itself. My wife is now glad I have the gun for home protection, and encourages me to get shells and practice with it.
I'm with those whose experience is that other people's dogs are the most annoying animals I've encountered on canoe trips.
I decided I could use some sort of firearm for home protection, for anticipated solo trips deep into bear country, for target practice on my 11 acres and at gun ranges, and, given that I sleep in my van in some sleazy places, also as protection for an itinerant old guy against homo sapien zombies. After a lot of helpful discussion on the forum, I bought a used Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge shotgun with a 28" bird barrel and a 20" slug barrel.
My wife threatened to leave me for bringing a dangerous weapon into our home.
Well, I've never fired the gun or even bought any shells for it. Aging and loss of paddling companions prevented me from taking most of my anticipated wilderness trips. My van escapades have diminished. Target practice, especially at gun ranges, turns out to be expensive in Connecticut. And, of course, I've never taken the gun with me in my van or on a canoe trip. I do carry two machetes, several knives, a baseball bat, and bear spray in my van.
What has changed in the last 10 years is the continued decline of family, religious and social structure in America, increased violence and crime, and a general decline and fall of civility, if not of American civilization itself. My wife is now glad I have the gun for home protection, and encourages me to get shells and practice with it.
I'm with those whose experience is that other people's dogs are the most annoying animals I've encountered on canoe trips.
Sorry Glenn, that's a common misperception. Crime is actually down from where it was in 2009-2010. Click through the yearly stats assembled by the FBI if you doubt it, which you can find here:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s
But here are the highlights:
From the 2010 report, there were 1,246,248 violent crimes in the U.S.
From the 2018 report (last year for which a full report has been published) there were 1,206,836 violent crimes in the U.S., which was "9.0 percent below the 2009 level."
The 2019 report is still in preliminary status and has only 6 months of data, but down, of course from 2009-2010. I've read there's been a spike of murders in 2020, compared to 2019, but violent crimes (and property crimes, too, although I am only citing violent crimes here) are still well down from 2009-2010 levels.
Crime may be down, but according a game warden I spoke with back in Pa. peoples attitudes are worse. (In the outdoors at least.) He said he felt like retiring because of it. He said there is not as much respect for private property, game land regulations, law enforcement in general and that people felt real entitled to do as they please. He also said it was locals who he had the biggest problem with and not the people from the city.
I don't want to debate crime statistics or trends, which vary widely from locality to locality.
The places I live and often frequent have increased problems of many types of crime, drug-related problems and other disturbing social instabilities, in significant part simply because of increases in population in those areas. It's irrelevant to me what happens in large or even medium sized cities, for example, because I no longer frequent them. I wouldn't want any part of most of those places if their crime rates dropped 50%. They would still be hell holes.
Besides, home and personal protection was only part of my reason for buying my unused gun, which in retrospect was a typical gear slut impetuous act on my part. Just like the useless (to me) axe that one of my own threads on this site "made me buy."
The places I live and often frequent have increased problems of many types of crime, drug-related problems and other disturbing social instabilities, in significant part simply because of increases in population in those areas. It's irrelevant to me what happens in large or even medium sized cities, for example, because I no longer frequent them. I wouldn't want any part of most of those places if their crime rates dropped 50%. They would still be hell holes.
Besides, home and personal protection was only part of my reason for buying my unused gun, which in retrospect was a typical gear slut impetuous act on my part. Just like the useless (to me) axe that one of my own threads on this site "made me buy."
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