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Rethinking Firearms

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Black_Fly

Black_Fly

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While I don't carry when tripping, the influx of strangers to the backcountry has me reconsidering. Granted, the long drive is the most dangerous part of any trip, but I've run into my share of miscreants over the years, and had a couple close calls. 2 lbs of protection is worth many lbs of cure, right? If nothing else, it would be a fine noise maker for bear repellent. I usually ascribe to the 3 portage rule - drunks and trouble makers are lazy I figure. Age may subvert my theory eventually (according to my knees) and make us more vulnerable.
 
I have settled on a nice little 20 Ga maverick pump. Just the ticket.
 
I only carry in the hunting season so August first to October 31, just in case I see meet for the freezer! Other than that bear spray is my friend! We can’t carry hand guns in Canada(and I’m ok with that) and a shot guns is big and heavy and never as ready as my bear spray is!!
 
Yeah, I generally carry a little 9mm popper when going to the city or on road trips. Although, with the political situation like it is, I'm carrying more often these days. Sad really.
 
I agree with you Canoe about the spray...much handier and a better chance of keeping you in the game.

In my 20's it was still the land of rifle racks in the back window out west here and although highly illegal many of us were doing concealed carry. These days even the rednecks play by the rules. There are days when I start to wonder though.
 
The world has never been stranger than it is right now. There was a very troubling protest in our little corner of the world yesterday.

I grew up in gun culture, shooting on a rifle team by age 10, and reloading in junior high school When I was about 19 I stopped carrying firearms. Some strange things happened. I started packing heat a few years later. I have a Ruger revolver, I think it is the SLR. It weighs one pound, holds five rounds and comes in .357 mag. It fits in the pocket on the waistbelt of my ULA pack.

Often for canoe trips we are in bear country so I bring an old Smith and Wesson stainless revolver in .44 mag.

For Canada and Alaska I bring a lever action big bore rifle in .45/70.
 
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I only carry if I have someone along who has bearanoia, and then its an 18 inch pump 12 gauge with slugs. Still fairly calm up here in the North, biggest excitement is a bumper blue berry crop this year. Three of us out of four got our moose tags this year, so we will no doubt be carrying rifles on some sort of canoe trip in October.
 
Kathleen and I take a bear banger, bear spray and a .308 Browning lever action with 180 grain bullets. We have used the banger twice on black bears, and it worked both times. We have never used the spray, which obviously would work best if the bear were attacking from down wind. I have practiced with it, and the spray doesn’t go all that far. It seems it would be best in hand-to-hand combat. I bought my rifle back in 1980. On our very next backpacking trip in the Southern Chilcotin Mountains in British Columbia we were enjoying breakfast when a black bear ambled into camp. Kathleen scurried up a nearby tree while I stood my ground. Moments later a grizzly joined our little group in the small meadow. Kathleen suggested I fire a warning shot. I was a little reluctant to use the cartridge in the chamber, as that would leave me only four cartridges in the clip to fend off two bears.

I fired anyway. The black bear immediately turned and bolted. The grizzly stood up on its hind legs, sniffed in my direction, and looked directly at me. He seemed to be saying, “Look, man. I was just strolling through the meadow, enjoying the morning stillness. But you do that one more time, and I’ll come over there and beat the crap out of you. Capiche?”

Apparently it was an Italian grizzly. The grizzly strolled off, kathleen climbed down the tree, and we hurriedly finished our breakfast and packed up.
 
I spent 29 years in the infantry. It took a long time after my retirement really relax when anywhere outdoors. If we ever meet on the trail or stream bank please excuse me if I sit or stand where no one can get behind me until I get to know them some. I might just be the guy off to the side sitting with a big tree or rock behind me......

In the bush I generally carry a semiautomatic pistol with a mounted light. Specific circumstances shape the choice from a sub-compact 9mm up to a full size .45. Revolvers generally don't play nice with weapon mounted lights and I've noticed that it usually gets dark every day so, for me, it's a semi-automatic pistol. Sometimes I have two pistols as I may just need a bigger gun but a sub-compact pistol (my current usual one is a Sig P-365 with a light) is small enough and light enough to be with me 24/7.

If I was in an area where I was constrained from toting a handgun and I thought the threat was a two-legged critter I might just rethink my plans, especially if I couldn't take a long gun.

And if I was in an area where I might not be at the top of the food chain I would likely opt for my Mossberg 835 3-1/2" chamber 12 ga shotgun loaded with heavy slugs behind a bear banger or two. And I'd drop the $125 USD or so needed to swap the fore end for one of Streamlight's shotgun fore ends with a built in weapon light. Oh, and I'd have a big pistol if legal. Options are good.

When Ron Sanchez, a 17 year Army combat veteran was murdered on the Appalachian Trail last year Nancy and I were on a week long backpacking and camping trip and were about 20 miles away before planning on attending the Appalachian Trail Days festival in Damascus, VA. Ron was fighting severe PTSD and was an active participant in a Veteran's Administration neurological study on the positive effects of long distance hiking on treating PTSD when he was killed. As he had told friends, he was exited to see who he would be after the through hike. That hurts every time I think of it.

I have thought often of how much different the outcome might have been if we had been at that campsite. The killer had been involved in a string of incidents in which he had seriously threatened hikers on on the AT on several occasions in different states. The hikers involved in those incidents didn't want to come off the trail for the time that a court case would take so the killer got off with a wrist slap and was freed. Word of mouth and social media meant that all the long distance hikers knew of the guy. There's no doubt at all in my mind that if I were present and de-escalation didn't work that the end result would have been much different.

So yes. I'll carry a handgun on the trail or when paddling whenever and wherever it is legal. And a long gun if appropriate.

Best regards to all,


Lance
 
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I have great sympathy for people that have been in combat. The fear often never goes away. The US military is good at making trained killers out of ordinary humans, but but has never really figured out how to deprogram them and get them back in society and feel normal.

Bear spray is a great thing to carry, as long as it is on your belt in a holster at the ready. In close encounters it is probably the best thing to use.
Air horns, bangers and warning shots can defuse a threat. My dogs have chased bears out of camp numerous times. They allow me to sleep soundly in the bush.

Working in SE Alaska we saw bears every day, for months on end. The best defense is knowledge and understanding how they think. But I still carry firearms.
 
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Out in Wyoming, I always had a rifle (45-70) in the backcountry. No reason not to with big bears and horses to pack the thing. I usually don't feel the need in BWCA, and typically leave my handgun in a gun vault in the car. I hope it gets back to that state soon. Until then, I reckon I'll pack heat. Sadly, I've grown to expect the worse from people.
 
I am probably naive, but in 63 years I've been lucky to have never felt threatened by people or critters. This is probably influenced by where I live, Vermont, which seems to trade places with Maine every year or two as the State with the lowest incidence of gun violence according to the FBI. I'm a life long hunter and have plenty of long guns but only one hand gun, a .22 caliber revolver I purchased used to carry on the trap line. Many of my friends carry, but I'm not tempted to. I would certainly carry something suitable if we took a trip where grizzlies were around. I don't worry about black bears.
 
I used to always travel with attractive young women. Several times they got eye balled in uncomfortable ways with no one around and several times people have said some very in appropriate things about them. Once in South Dakota I had the local young people on Saturday night driving around my parked van and yelling all kinds of things I did not want to hear. I have aimed loaded weapons at other humans twice. Once protecting my home and once in the bush, when some smart aleck kid was shooting in our direction.

I have been stalked by black bears a couple of times. They would hang around, then leave for awhile and always show up on my 6, behind me. Very unnerving. One went on for a couple of hours.

I have been in alder thickets in Alaska with big salmon eating bears. They were well fed and not very aggressive, but you never know what order they come in.

I have been in camp sites were people were attacked by bears the day before in Alaska. One came in a tent while a lady was rolling up her sleeping bag.
In Alberta I had a sow and two cubs within less than 18 inches of my face while sleeping in a little mountaineering tent. Only mosquito netting was between us.
So now I always carry firearms.
 
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RickR,

Not to disagree, or to alarm, but according to Dr. Herrero, a bear attack “expert,” grizzly attacks are nearly always sudden encounters. Rouge black bears, on the other hand, are known to stalk people.

Like you, I have never, in 72 years, felt or been threatened by another person. I don’t own a hand gun, and don’t want one. As a Canadian, other than under a few exceptions, I couldn’t have one anyway. If you’re reading this, Black Fly, I ‘m curious. Have you ever felt, or been threatened by people while out canoeing? That’s how I interpret your posts. Forgive me if I am wrong.
 
South Central Alaska is black bear and brown bear country, even if you are in a city. I have had a brown bear come up over a small rise while I was taking a wizz 15 feet away. Luckily the bear saw me and turned in mid air and ran back down the hill. I have walked down a trail shared by the largest blonde colored brown bear I ever saw. On all four legs, his back was even with my shoulders as I was walking. It is unnerving to shoot a warning shot from a .45-70 in the ground just being his feet to have dirt fly up at the bear and the bear completely ignore me and the gunshot. This bear never broke stride. Eventually the bear wandered off the trail up over the hill. I have had black bears and brown bears on my 1 acre of property in a small 2 street neighborhood, 6 miles south of Soldotna, Alaska. If I am on land, I always have a loaded gun on me. In the canoe, I will have my 45 auto or .45-70 with me depending on where I go.
 
I have never considered carrying a weapon for self protection while canoe tripping, the penalties for making a mistake far outweigh the humiliation of a bad encounter with a dude looking for trouble imho.

Not to say the thought of a sawed off 20 gauge single shot would have fit nicely in my #3 Duluth Pack but I never really went further than thinking about it. Just thinking about a Canadian border guard pulling it out of my pack and then meeting my new cell mate “Le Bubba” somewhere due north just made me think twice.
 
I have taken a shotgun and a rifle into Canada before. You just have to let them know that you have them before hand and buy a "permit".
 
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