Resurrecting a Blue Barrel

[Foxyotter]

I either blame my cheap shipping choice which saveed me 4 dollars or most likely Capitán Pato was a sleep on the job.. It is good you bought some I sent a small amount. It was the available container that I thought would survive the trip. The KOE works awesome and is not unpleasant to work with.

 

[Guest]

Foxyotter, could be worse. I once tracked a USPS package as it circumnavigated my home for ten days.

Shipped from Lancaster PA, 30 miles north of my place, it went first to a mail distribution center two hours south in Virginia, no doubt passing within 5 road miles of my home en route, and then began a long wandering journey that took it to the east, and then the west, and eventually back north of me before arriving in my mailbox.

The barrel is sitting in the hot sun, and I’m rotating it every couple hours in hopes that the sunny side will heat up and exchange the mild K.O.E fragrance for impregnated fertilizer stank.

 

[flyingbison]

I had a similar problem with a blue barrel a few years ago, though is was more of a soapy/perfume scent. I used a gallon of bleach and a couple boxes of baking soda, and then filled the rest of the barrel with water. Let it sit for a few days, and that seemed to take care of the problem.

 

[LanceR]

I checked inside the blue puffballs yesterday afternoon. No stink in any of them so for me it is just the two little ones I already knew about to deal with. It will be at least Wednesday before I get back to them.

Best regards to all,


Lance

 

[Guest]

The barrel lid and gasket have been soaking in K.O.E for a couple days now, moved along into full sun in hopes the heat helps dis-impregnate the stank.

P6290001 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I put temporary lids on them. It’s not a bird bath. Or a mouse bath; I didn’t want a repeat of this (uncovered silt settling bucket left out overnight).

P5081013 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Willie, that’s some tasty water you floculated, with a hint of muad'dib flavor.

most likely Capitán Pato was a sleep on the job

After his long nap Capitán Pato awoke in time to guard the barrel.

P6290006 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The water in the gasket soaking barrel was noticeably discolored, and had a bit of whiff to it, so I ran a sponge around the now semi-slimy gasket and replaced the K.O.E solution with fresh.

I figured it may have taken some time for the urea stink to impregnate the barrel, and the gasket, so I’m going to let everything soak for several more days. I think that will do it for the barrel and lid; the gasket, ehhhh, we’ll see.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

While this is an entertaining and even educational thread, and while I can understand the interest and even enthusiasm for some folks to tinker, repair and even resurrect equipment, none of this time or effort for one barrel makes economic sense to me. (Maybe it does if you need a bunch of them for a group.)

A barrel should be almost a lifetime piece of gear -- good, say, for 50 years. Why not just buy one new and avoid all this repulsively mephitic hassle? Ten bucks for a stinkeroo! Today, I can buy a brand new 30 liter barrel from RBW in Canada, shipped to me in the U.S. for $54. I can buy one on sale today from Austin Kayak for $57, including shipping and tax. That's a little over a dollar a year for the lifetime of an important piece of gear.

Cripes, over the past 50 years, I've spent untold tens of thousands of dollars -- maybe more than $100,000 -- on 15 canoes and kayaks, 20+ paddles, all sorts of packs, tents, camping gear, clothing, electronics, gasoline, meals, motels, camping grounds, trip fees, vehicle purchases and repairs, airplane flights, club fees, and untold forgotten dollars, much of it on useless gear, all for the purpose of pursuing my paddling hobby.

What the heck is another dollar a year for one new barrel -- and even less than that when you subtract the price of the the noxious and possibly toxic used barrel -- in the grand economic scheme of things? Nothing!!! And for nothing, I choose to do nothing.

But I'm not the walrus or the egg man. Goo goo g'joob.

 

[Guest]

While this is an entertaining and even educational thread, and while I can understand the interest and even enthusiasm for some folks to tinker, repair and even resurrect equipment, none of this time or effort for one barrel makes economic sense to me.

Today, I can buy a brand new 30 liter barrel from RBW in Canada, shipped to me in the U.S. for $54. I can buy one on sale today from Austin Kayak for $57, including shipping and tax. That's a little over a dollar a year for the lifetime of an important piece of gear.

Glen, I may have to look into those $50 (I presume 30L) barrels. I really want a 30L for shorter trips. But it isn’t so much the barrel destination, it’s the journey.

Sure, I could just buy a virgin $50 barrel. I could just buy a spanking new canoe. And then never outfit it. Or perhaps pay someone to outfit it for me. Not a lot of first-hand application experience there in either case, just theory. I am not a theoretician, I’m an application guy.

I’m up to $21, but just think about the barrel education I would have missed had I simply bought a new barrel:

I would otherwise not have Googled “Removing odors from plastic containers”. The vinegar and baking soda combination saved some favorite Tupperware containers, and one son’s sentimental, nostalgically college-age stickered 10 year old Nalgene bottle. A new Nalgene bottle is $10 or $12; the stickers, to him, are priceless. His appreciation at that Nalgene save alone was worth $20.

I had not previously known that DougD’s “magic mix” of 50% household vinegar and 50% Dawn would remove nearly all old label residue. That is a wonderfully effective mix for scrubbing off anything aged dirt encrusted (think grimy derelict canoes; like the ones stored under Glenn’s deck for the last 15 years).

Barrels are usually mentioned as 30L or 60L. Who knew there were 45L and 38L barrels? (Answer: Not me).

Or approximately 30 and 38 and 45 and 60 liter barrels; the manufactured capacity may actually be in gallons. I expect there may be “19L barrels”, aka 5.01927 gallons. If so maybe that is the next smaller barrel size I want.

(Hey Lance, measure the full to the brim capacity on those “around 30 – 35L capacity barrels; I am curious about what they hold, and whether it converts more evenly to gallons than some odd-number liter/fraction)

Those numbers and dial/arrow symbols on barrels and lids have decipherable meanings. And now I know the code. Still weird that the dial arrow on my “45L” barrel points at 12 (gallons?), and the “38L” points at 10 (gallons?); that is a helluva coincidence.

Different manufacturer barrels have different handles, different lids and (perhaps importantly) different lid gaskets. Some have a little rubber O-ring, some a thicker foam gasket. OK, I already knew that from work on past barrels. The 38L is the first I have seen with a thick, hard, black “rubber” gasket, made of material akin to the serpentine belt in a car.

Who knew that the some gaskets were stank repositories? OK, Conk did. Anyone else?

Or that stinky barrels, and especially stinky gaskets, would be stank revitalized simply by spending some time in the hot sun?

Who knew about the powers of K.O.E? OK, Foxyotter did.

http://www.thornell.com/product/k-o-e/

I have 11 cats and two dogs plus a couple horses. This stuff is amazing it can destroy cat pee!

I presume Foxyotter’s horses don’t share the house, but the K.O.E solution has already done a number on some old cat urine smells under carpet and tile floor corner molding areas.

I am a naturally curious fellow; if George Will uses an unfamiliar word I have to Google it. “Tergiversations”? Yeah, I had to look that up. It was the precise word in that context.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...tergiversation

With boats and gear and such I need to touch it, see it, figure it out and do it myself. And, in this case, smell it. I need to work my way through solutions – and, more educationally, failures – to achieve a better understanding.

But I'm not the walrus or the egg man. Goo goo g'joob.

Are you sitting on a cornflake, or have you been a naughty girl, letting your knickers down?

Time to go turn the barrel 180 degrees so the other side is facing into the hot sun.

 

[Boreal Birch]

Glenn........
We don't all have a big orange tractor with all the attachments to putz away our days with. We all turn to something we enjoy doing to fill our free time. I make traditional style Finnish Puukko's and Sami Leuku Knives, build fly rods and tie flies. My mother always said, "that idle hands were the devil's workshop". The only use I have of blue barrels, are to store our dog food and bird seed. Both are in a lidded cedar box, on the porch to hide their (to my eyes) ugly color. The cedar smell helps to keep the contents somewhat safe from rodents and other critters. I have never tripped with a barrel, probably never will. I have have been happy using Duluth Packs, a Bill's Bag dry bag, hand made Pack Baskets and a Wanigan over the years. Over the last fifty years I have spent way more than what Mike has spent on "stank remover". Instead I buy neatsfoot oil, linseed oil, pine tar and Man-O-War varnish to maintain them. Each to their own, I have been reading along on this thread, and found it interesting and entertaining in the twilight days of my life.
.........BB

 

[recped]

I've never paid more than $10 for a barrel, all the 30L I have were $5 or less.

I do have one "expensive" barrel that my sister bought for me +/- 1988, as Glenn mentioned these should last a lifetime, that 60L is my go to main barrel which I use for all my "absolutely must not get wet" gear, it has been abused to the extreme, floated through many kilometres of big rapids, gone over sizable waterfalls. Original snap ring, original gasket, original handles, I estimate it has more than 2,000 river days on it.

I have gone through a series of harnesses for it, over the years, mostly due to UV exposure rotting all the nylon webbing.

For cheap barrels, check Craigslist, almost anywhere there will be ads for barrel / drum recyclers. The canoe specific ones (size, shape, handles) are not that common but they are out there. Also look for commercial food manufacturers or pharmaceutical companies, they usually have the best ones as they often have liners for their first use so no odours.

Not too far away from me is a smallish candy company, once or twice a year they have an ad on Kijiji (Canadian equivalent to CL), most of their raw materials come in the 30L size.

To be perfectly clear.....this thread is a very enjoyable read! Almost makes me want to sniff and leak test all my spare barrels that I will probably never use because the same 2 or 3 "old favourites" still have decades left in them.

 

[memaquay]

I had always heard about the legendary Yankee frugality, but had only seen it incarnated in a Canadian of Dutch extraction who took the term "cheapskate" to a new level. Thanks Mike for exposing me to the real deal. My penny crunching Dutch buddy had a psychosis about spending money, but in your quest to save a buck, the process is not really about the buck, and more about the salvation. Indeed, your refusal to give up is an inspiration to me, and when I return to teaching this fall, I will exert the same loving persistance on some unwashed, neglected and stinking kid that you have applied to the fortunate barrel. I can only hope I have the same results, and your admirable pluck, to turn a sows ear into a silk purse.

 

[frozentripper]

Oh, you naysayers can scoff and point all you want at the... hmmm, I prefer to call it "value buying"... OK fine, you can have your laughs now but you just wait, this, er, "sniffing out good value" will have it's rewards in time, namely, being self-sufficient in hard times when none is available and all the retail-dependent shoppers out there are moaning and crying, there's nothing available, nothing, nothing, nothing and before you know they're jumping off bridges and tall buildings while those who have prepared themselves well... well, we sit comfy and gloat.

I have yet to find to find something smelly ready to be restored to spring freshness, however, here's another most relevant example: Earlier this spring I bought a packet of annual flower seeds for only $2 and with a little work and preparation, got a hundred potted plants out of it, which would have normally cost fifty dollars at a nursery, before tax. That's a savings of $48. The pots I picked up at a cemetery where they're thrown out indiscriminately, without any thought that they're 25 cents each. That's another saving of $25.

Here's the icing on the cake. This spring while my neighbors were looking on and saying cripes why don't you just buy them from a nursery... there was a frost and all the annuals, tomatoes many other frost sensitive plants were killed. All those hardened good shoppers, left with NOTHING... soooo... ah ha ha hah hah hah.. .



PS... Glenn I was not mocking your comments about "nothing" earlier on, just to be clear... lol j/k....

 

[memaquay]

What's the difference between a canoeist and a canoe? Canoes tip.

 

[Guest]

I had always heard about the legendary Yankee frugality, but had only seen it incarnated in a Canadian of Dutch extraction who took the term "cheapskate" to a new level. Thanks Mike for exposing me to the real deal.

I have known a couple of, even to my Scot’s mind, real deals of extreme frugality. My uncle Harwood, richer than Scrooge McDuck. But Scrooge McDuck dressed better. Harwood, who spent 16 hours a day in his cabinetry shop (maybe it’s genetic), wore the same pair of coveralls for all of the years I knew him. If they tore he sewed them. If they wore through he patched them. Eventually his coveralls - I believe he only owned the one pair - were more patches than original material; he looked like a hippie chick at Woodstock. And didn’t give a crap.

The frugality I am most familiar with is my late, great friend Dave from the Tortoise Reserve. Dave was the King of repurpose and re-use, often quite cunningly. As such he had a lot of random stuff, and it was often put to some novel use. Dave was very fond of old windows, window frames and even old glass. There were a lot of interesting windows at the Tortoise Reserve. Some were even functional and fitted properly.

But, his most frugal peculiarity, Dave never threw away a piece of lumber. By piece I mean even the teeniest 2” long cut end or scrap from a 2x4. Or anything else lumber-ish. Among the twenty two outbuildings at the Tortoise Reserve is a designed and designated Lumber Building. Dave built a “feed window” (windows again) on the short side, so he could open that side and slide 20’ boards inside. There were no 20’ boards inside, and dang few 8’ boards. OK, dang few 4’ boards.

I knew the purpose of that 10’ x 20’ building the first time I opened the door; it was piled floor to ceiling with lumber. Scrap lumber. Randomly thrown in scrap lumber. Piled willy nilly, to the point you could not enter the building, just open the door and peer inside. Hope what you are looking for is within arm’s reach. And not on the bottom of the pile near the door.

I like a challenge, and I was building a lot of stuff at the Tortoise Reserve, so I needed better lumber access, and needed to know what we had on hand. I completely emptied that building. Emptied it and mouse crap swept it out to bare walls. Installed lumber racks and shelving, including oversized 2-level sawhorses at one end for the bigger pieces of T-10 and plywood.

Sorted the lumber out into even remotely possibly used pieces and lengths; usable scrap lengths of 2x4’s, 2x6’s, 2x10’s, sections of T10 and plywood bigger than a breadbox and pieces of molding, to my Scot’s keeper-molding criteria, at least a foot long. That was still a lotta dang molding to sort and stack.

Put everything usable back in, segregated and organized on newly built shelves and platforms. You could finally enter the lumber building, walk (albeit tightly) around and find what you needed. More importantly, what I needed.

What was left still outside when I was done were dozens of horribly warped pieces of Lauan scrap, short end cuts and triangles from 2x4’s and the like, and a huge pile of molding and trim pieces, 3 or 4 inch long pieces of quarter round and half round. Freaking useless scraps.

When I suggested to Dave that “This scrap outside pile could go down to the fire pit” he was aghast. I had to build more shelving to accommodate tiny lengths of various molding (sorted - half round, quarter round, baseboard, etc), stacks of small plywood and T-10 scrap, find and Sharpie-label boxes to fill with useless “End Cut Scraps” and “Triangle pieces”. I even stacked up the warped Lauan like saucers in a cupboard ))))))). As you wish Dave.

Next trip down 6 months later Dave contracted to have a massive 2-story pole barn/shop built, an awesome building that became my home-away-from-home for post retirement months at a time.

There was, of course, another absolute mountain of random wood scraps piled on the lumber building floor. Dave’s part of the construction was apparently to go around every evening, collect all the scrap wood to save and throw it into the lumber building. Fark, I need to put up more shelving, and I had used all the brackets I found last time.

“Hey, whadda ya know, the triangle cuts from 2x10’s make perfect shelving brackets, all I have to do is drill two holes and sink some screws”. Dave did not need to say “Told ya so”, but I distinctly heard it. FWIW I do not throw away those triangular pieces from my own shop. And, yes, Dave, I use them.

Postscript: I organized and sorted that lumber building at least once a year for a decade, always finding it repopulated with random scrap wood.

And, sometimes, when Dave was not around at night, I had some really easy-light campfires. I admittedly got a great deal satisfaction from seeing inch long end cuts of 2x4s and weird trapezoidal scraps of horribly warped Lauan go up in flames.

BWAHAHAHA, I’ll never have to sort through that crap again.

Ooops, off on a tangent. Time to go wheel the barrel into full sun again, and tape up a couple boats for bottom paint.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Let's be honest. This thread isn't about someone who needs a barrel or who can't afford a new one. It's about the fun and interest in hobby tinkering, and the fun and interest in hobby website entertainment. I get that.

I'm not interjecting a brief opinion of what I think is reasonable economic sense for the benefit of Mike McCrea or anyone else here who has multiple redundancies of basic equipment such as packs, paddles and canoes. I'm writing for the future 30-year olds who may be considering a purchase of their first and only item of essential tripping equipment such as a food container.

Repeat: human food container.

Not a storage barrel for tools, dog food or cleaning supplies. For my food, it is my opinion that one should buy something clean and sanitary and long-lived. For my food, I wouldn't advise any container that has contained unknown pharmaceutical or other chemicals. Nor would I advise a container, for my food, made of potentially out-gassing petrochemicals that has been extensively abluted and abraded with acids, bases, bleaches and unknown cat urine removers. For goodness sake . . . UGH!

Nor would I advise the 30-year old to buy a $10, rotted, splintered paddle as his or her first canoe paddle. Nor a $10 ripped and tattered life jacket as the first and only. Sure, when one already has a bunch of these items of basic equipment and wants to tinker-tailor for hobby fun, off or on the internet, that's a different story.

On the other hand, I feel no need to advise the 30-year old to take more than a $10 telephone on a canoe trip, or that any phone or electronic equipment is necessary at all. I bet I'll be able to feel push-back on that opinion right through my ancient computer screen from some of the selectively thrifty.

 

[Guest]

Let's be honest. This thread isn't about someone who needs a barrel or who can't afford a new one. It's about the fun and interest in hobby tinkering, and the fun and interest in hobby website entertainment. I get that.

I'm not interjecting a brief opinion of what I think is reasonable economic sense for the benefit of Mike McCrea or anyone else here who has multiple redundancies of basic equipment such as packs, paddles and canoes. I'm writing for the future 30-year olds who may be considering a purchase of their first and only item of essential tripping equipment such as a food container.

While I could afford to buy a new barrel, and can’t say I need one in the can’t-get-by-without-it sense, I would still like to have a 30L barrel for shorter trips.

Of our (now) three barrels the 60L was purchased used as a used outfitter rental, and was perfect for our 4-person family trips.

Our 45L barrel was purchased from a re-seller of used barrels; what was advertised as a “30L” barrel turned out to be a 45L barrel, but it has proved ideal for multi-week solo trips. Both Lance and I thought the 38L Stankmeister was a 30L. Nope.

About redundancies; a 60L and 30L barrel are no more redundant than a 4-man tent and a 2-man tent. Both are tents, but the family will be darned cozy sleeping together in the 2-man.

Not a storage barrel for tools, dog food or cleaning supplies. For my food, it is my opinion that one should buy something clean and sanitary and long-lived. For my food, I wouldn't advise any container that has contained unknown pharmaceutical or other chemicals. Nor would I advise a container, for my food, made of potentially out-gassing petrochemicals that has been extensively abluted and abraded with acids, bases, bleaches and unknown cat urine removers. For goodness sake . . . UGH!

I have never bought a new barrel. Most everyone I know who uses barrels bought theirs used. They could all be outgassing odorless poisonous fumes. I’m going with if it doesn’t stink I’m gonna use it.

I wouldn’t advise a 30-year old to buy a $10, rotted, splintered paddle. At least not the rotted part. Our first two decent quality wood paddle (MR Voyageurs) were freeies with split blades. I repaired them 35 years ago; still going strong and still in occasional use.

I have bought one new canoe in my life, but have probably owned upwards of 30 (40?). Right now the family fleet is down to 13 boats, all of them bought used, most in the couple hundred dollar range and needed repairs and outfitting.

Not every 30 year old can afford to drop thousands of dollars on a spiffy new canoe and paddle. I would, and have, and will, encourage a new paddler on a budget to learn about canoes, and buy a quality used boat, even if it needs some TLC. For the same money as a shiny new Pelican or big-box pool toy, which are probably still outgassing Chinese petrochemicals with that new boat smell.

FWIW this was written on an ancient, dust filled desktop computer running Windows 7, viewed on an equally ancient monitor.

I am on my third keyboard. Wonder why that happens?

 

[Odyssey]

While you two gentlemen full of piss and vinegar (lol) discuss the finer points of frugality I'll just interject, and say that maybe Mike is looking the proverbial gift horse in the mouth. What we have here is a potential food container that smells like it's already been marked by a territorial animal (presumably human but who knows?). Too bad the stank is on the inside and not the outside. While I'm not suggesting anybody go wee wee around camp, and least of all on gear and tent, it has been argued to be an effect animal deterrent so I'm told.
As you were gentlemen. JK.

 

[Boreal Birch]

I am skeptical that marking territory works, will continue the practice until such time that it fails. Standing out on the perimeter of camp watching the sunset far to the Northwest I am beset with a problem. Don't the apex predators kill and eat the lame, weak and the old? Can they determine your status from the smelling of a scent post? Something to think about as you fluff up your folded pants and fleece pillow to cradle your grizzled old head. Sweet dreams kiddies!!

 

[memaquay]

Perhaps instead of peeing in the lake, one should pee on one's barrel, or better yet, on one's ground sheet, be it under the tent or in it. I wonder what Moffat would have done? Would he have referenced Tyrrell's notes, or just taken extra long pee's to waste time.

Oops, wrong website, thought I was on myccr there for a minute.

 

[Guest]

Premature K.O.E. update

The barrel, lid and gasket have been soaking in K.O.E solution for 5 days now. I have been changing out the small amount of water contained in the lid and gasket bucket using K.O.E from the barrel, and topping off the over-proof solution in barrel with additional water.

The solution in the gasket bucket is no longer discolored when I change it out, so I’m hopeful there. This morning I didn’t empty and immediately refill the lid, but instead left it out to dry in the hot sun. The lid – with the gasket still seated in the rim – was the real stinkpot. Even without the gasket out the lid was still a stinker.

The lid, without the gasket, is now fresh as a daisy. Well, not exactly a daisy, it smells faintly of. . . .what is that familiar smell?. . . .I know, a coin operated laundry mat. I’m thinking that faint laundry mat odor will fade with time, or with sunshine and open air, but it sure beats fertilizer stank. Do apex predators prefer to kill and eat the freshly laundered? I know I would.

I refilled the lid and everything is back baking in the hot sun. I’m in no rush to empty the 38L of K.O.E solution, it’s supposed to be hot and sunny for several more days and continuing the de-scent soaking can’t hurt.

BTW, I have mentioned this before, but for anyone new to the board, I like Glenn. I appreciate his long knowledge of canoes, canoeing history, paddles, paddling and the like. I enjoy his writing, and the specificity of his word choices.

heck, I’ve met Glenn and I still like him; I think he feels much the same. We have been “going after” each other on the board for years now, mostly in fun, and for the sport of debating silly things like blue barrels. Or even serious things like using double blade paddles, or installing Dynel skid plates.

Hey Glenn, I’m up to $20 (with a half bottle of K.O.E leftover for future use) and this repulsively mephitic hassle has been underway for a month now.

Yeah, I had to look that up:

https://www.google.com/search?source...sclient=psy-ab

 

[Boreal Birch]

Memaquay.......
Just to be clear, marking territory does not mean to pee in the lake. Kinda like walking the dog, leash and collar optional.