I learned a ton of info from this thread so far. Living on Long Island like Coldfeet I can see how decked canoes make sense when out in Long Island Sound or the Great South Bay. I'm intrigued by the sails.
Hanz, if you are enjoying this and interested in decked canoes, I’ll blather.
The whole decked tripping boat thing is fascinating to me, from John MacGregor in a Rob Roy to present day evolution of decked expedition tripping canoes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_MacGregor_(sportsman)
The Rob Roy of MacGregor fame is/was still made by a couple of manufacturers in modern materials, including the late Bell. Nice little boat that needed a better seat pan than a crude piece of foam. And a rudder for sailing.
Monarchs and Loons are no longer made and are rare as hen’s teeth, but they do pop up occasionally. A used Loon could be anything from 30 year old glass and woven roving to later iterations of the Sawyer company in carbon/kevlar. Still, the Loon is a sought after boat in the Kruger boat design genealogy (Loon, Monarch, Sea Wind).
The Monarch was always kevlar and typically goes for $1500 if the seller is aware, and at that cost folks are willing pay to have them shipped crosscountry. I’ve seen more used Monarchs than Loons; maybe due to their relative production numbers or perhaps where I live.
Scotsman-priced used Sea Winds do not exist. The Sea Wind (and other Krugers) are the gold standard. The $8000 retail for a new boat gold standard.
http://www.krugercanoes.com/Products.html
Superior Canoe’s Expedition makes (made?) an enlarged Sea Wind clone at close to half the cost. I don’t know if Superior exists anymore.
The only other comparable boat still manufactured is the Clipper Sea-1
http://www.clippercanoes.com/sea-1/
That is a fantastic boat. heck, it looks fast sitting still. And it is. The long peaked deck and tapering cockpit are pure form and function; the tapered peak sheds bow waves nicely and the extended tongue allows arm access to gear up in the bow. $3500 new, rarely seen west of the Mississippi.
What is more common for sale used/cheap are composite tandem decked hulls from the 70’s and 80’s, like the Sockeye, Vagabond and Optima, that can be converted to nice solo trippers and sailers. Those were often billed as “European-style tandem touring canoes” (kayaks) , and if you look at the overall shape, cockpit size, decks and rudder the lineage of today’s decked expedition canoes is apparent.
In that old-school style the Bavaria Boote company still makes the Missouri II, which I believe has been around unchanged for 30 years. Heavy, and many Euros new. But occasionally cheap used. See “heavy”.
http://www.sea-sports.de/bavaria-ka...i5qudc07ttc37kf6po34ubh819femcqs32rmn0upl1em1
Phoenix (Poke Boat) still makes the Vagabond. Their retail price is insanely high, high enough that the original owners remember what they paid. The stock tandem seats in the Vagabond – also unchanged for 30 years – are beyond Marquis de Sade uncomfortable.
http://www.pokeboat.com/Vagabond.htm
Not to jinx my own ongoing search, but keep an eye out for something like those. Converting them from tandem to a solo decked canoe (single raised seat) is not overly difficult. If they come with a functional rudder and pedals you are $300 ahead in the conversion.
One of my Holy Grail conversions would be to find a Wilderness Systems Pamlico 145T Pro.
http://playak.com/article.php?sid=2952
That boat was actually just over 15 feet long, and at 56lbs in kevlar that tandem would lose close to 20lbs of excess seats and pedals. That would be an awesome lightweight pocket tripper or day boat with a sail.
Lastly – and don’t laugh – The older Pamlico 145T in poly converts to a decent* small tripper or sailing dayboat when soloized with a slightly single seat. We have a soloized P145 that remains my wife’s favorite boat for lake and coastal bay paddling and sailing. The shorter waterline means she isn’t pushing 17 feet of hull around, and soloizing it reduces the weight considerably, as it loses an excess seat, foot pedals and a center keelson tube. Those P145’s are common on Craigslist, sometimes cheaper that the cost of the rudder and two sets foot controls/pedals.
*OK, not just decent. That is damning with faint praise, and expounding the pleasures of a poly rec kayak is somehow embarrassing, but the soloized P145 makes a really nice little boat.
It paddles well, sails well, responds nicely to the rudder and is dang near indestructible. Two friends in the paddlesport industry kept telling me that the P145 was the best paddling plastic rec kayak on the market to make into a solo and, when I found one cheap, they were right.
It has nimble rocker and is very responsive to solo paddle strokes or rudder action.
Removing the tandem excess from a Pamlico is largely a mechanical process (and leaves you with an excess seat and foot braces…to re-use on another boat). Any excess hardware holes (all are above the waterline) are easily plugged with a F/flex patch, so the conversion is faster and far easier than cutting glassed-in seats and hardware off on a composite hull.
Seriously. Pamlico 145T. Cheap used, easily convertible (pick your own seat height, and even retain the fore and aft adjustability of the seat pan), sails well and holds a decent amount of gear.
And an even more embarrassing confession – We own a soloized Pamlico 160T.
It is a pig to lift and transport, and the length/waterline ratio sucks speedwise compared to our other decked boats, but it will haul a huge amount of gear and sails very comfortably.
I couldn’t pass on it at the can’t-buy-a-rudder-for-that cost, even anticipating the eventual soloized weight. But it is a dang comfortable big-boy boat, and a stable loaner for folks who want to try sailing, even with the seat raised to single blade range.
That all I know about them there decked tripping boats that aren’t quite canoes and aren’t quite kayaks.
Until I find some other oddity to retrofit,
