Kevlar/Aramid Weight

[Black_Fly]

Wenonah now makes ultralight canoes out of "Aramid" whereas they used to be "Kevlar." I've noticed the advertised weight of the newer canoes is a few pounds less than before. Anyone know if thinner material is being used under the Aramid name or is it just better overall design, or just marketing?

 

[BWCA66]

Aramid and Kevlar are the same, you can get different weights just like in fiberglass so it could be any of your various options.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Aramid and Kevlar are the same, you can get different weights just like in fiberglass so it could be any of your various options.

Yup. Aramid made by DuPont is marketed as Kevlar.
Weights of kevlar boats may also vary as some makers use fewer layers and some more.

 

[Guest]

And vacuum bagging makes a weight difference as well.

Someone can correct this if it is a misconception, but many (most?) kevlar hulls incorporate partials of other FRP materials in a lay-up schedule.

 

[Black_Fly]

So the answer is design makes the same models lighter now, not necessarily the materials?

 

[Matt C]

So the answer is design makes the same models lighter now, not necessarily the materials?

You got me to thinking, since your original post was in reference to Wenonahs. My last catalogue is about three years old and all references were to Kevlar. The Wenonah website now refers to Aramid (which is of course the same material, just not made by Dupont). So I suspect Wenonah is now sourcing material from India or China, which is a doggone shame. Nothing to do with discrepancies in weight, though. It has always been my experience that Wenonah is among the most accurate when comparing actual versus advertised weights. Since they rarely change designs, was there a particular model you noticed a difference in advertised weight from past catalogues?

 

[yellowcanoe]

So the answer is design makes the same models lighter now, not necessarily the materials?

You can have a light Kevlar (TM) build with two blanket layers or heavier with several blanket layers. Most canoes have many layers of football layers, blanket layers and partials in the stem and where extra reinforcement needed. Vacuum infusion may make a lighter canoe with the resin drawn in to the fabric. Vacuum bagging is a process where the resin is applied and the excess sucked out. It tends to be less precise. Excess resin adds weight. Moreover some Kevlar boats have other materials eg fiberglass in the stems.

What determines the weight of a boat is not exactly straightforward.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I think Matt C nailed it. Wenonah is probably now using less costly generic aramid rather than the DuPont aramid trademarked as Kevlar. Twaron is another brand name for aramid.

 

[Matt C]

I think Matt C nailed it. Wenonah is probably now using less costly generic aramid rather than the DuPont aramid trademarked as Kevlar. Twaron is another brand name for aramid.

It's a pity, really, but rather that than go belly-up or sell out to Pelican! The Wenonah model price increases this year across the board may really hurt them too.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Nova Craft has been using Twaron. They have a pretty good materials guide
http://www.novacraft.com/buyers-guide/materials-explained/

 

[Black_Fly]

Ah, that's probably the reason. I suppose the aluminum could be lighter weight as well. Competition probably helps motivate lightening.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Ah, that's probably the reason. I suppose the aluminum could be lighter weight as well. Competition probably helps motivate lightening.

I think old age has a bit to do with it and us geriatrics not wanting to bash around on rocky streams too.. I can't wait for the invention of helium filled float tanks. Alu is light. Sometimes we dismiss gunwales as not being important as to weight. But they are long pieces of material! And some have done away with those too. There are infused gunwales that are part of the hull: carbon fiber or CF and kevlar wrap over a foam tube. Savage River just did away with half the gunwales entirely.

BF we froze you out. You came to my house way early. So we doused you with snow and wind and cold.
So your couzins will have to mate again and try another hatch!

 

[Black_Fly]

YC - That could be bad. I'm sure they'll make up for the late start. Might be in the thick of it during July!

 

[yellowcanoe]

YC - That could be bad. I'm sure they'll make up for the late start. Might be in the thick of it during July!

Yah. when I am doing a triple portage. I used to do doubles. But I got older! Maybe they have time to bite thrice?

 

[Black_Fly]

After weighing one of my Kevlar canoes, it appears it doesn't weigh what I thought. I'm actually a full pound under current Aramid specifications. Now I want to weigh all my boats.

Ha! I weighed my Prism and it too is a half pound lighter than current specs, and that includes those heavy, butt ugly skid plates!

Here I was thinking they were heavier than they are. I'm psyched. I may just go out and portage the neighborhood for practice!

 

[gumpus]

I avoid weighing my boats because I have no trouble lifting and loading them and I don't want to know if they are heavier than I think they are or they'll be harder to lift.

 

[Black_Fly]

Yeah, but think, now I can definitively argue that skid plates add absolutely no weight to a canoe!

 

[Matt C]

I avoid weighing my boats because I have no trouble lifting and loading them and I don't want to know if they are heavier than I think they are or they'll be harder to lift.

I do for two reasons: to ascertain which manufacturers are the biggest liars (Dagger and Old Town) and to keep myself from 'over-outfitting' until I can no longer lift the boat!

 

[Black_Fly]

I do for two reasons: to ascertain which manufacturers are the biggest liars (Dagger and Old Town) and to keep myself from 'over-outfitting' until I can no longer lift the boat!

That makes sense. After attaching a fishing pole, a paddle, a seat, a rod holder, two painter lines, who knows how much I'm carrying on top of my 50# pack! I'm going to weigh it all to see, by golly!