Grade A boat or a second?

[ScottS]

A blem is a blem. That's my 4000 bucks on the matter.

 

[memaquay]

I'm not sure when canoe prices rose to the point of needing a second mortgage. I just priced out a swift prospector 14 in the lightest fanciest layup they have - $8,595.00 There were two options I passed up that would have brought it closer to 10 000.

So if I shelled out the big bucks for a canoe, the maker better be delivering to a standard that reflects the price. To the OP, that kind of response would piss me off so bad, I would probably demand my money back, since the maker believes he can resell it at full value, let him have it back, then take your money and spend it somewhere else.

 

[billconner]

Even Souris River, not known for aesthetics, would discount significantly for a blemish like described.

 

[Art D]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. The maker has agreed to replace the boat at their expense. I believe the consensus here helped. Some have private messaged me to speculate about the identity of the canoe company. I am declining to confirm. The fact is I very much like the one boat I already own from this maker and would not hesitate to buy another. I suspect we all get caught on the wrong side of a dispute occasionally and just need to step back and rethink our positions. I believe that's what happened here and am grateful for the maker's courage to do so.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. The maker has agreed to replace the boat at their expense.

I just got to this thread, Art. A cosmetic issue is a blem and always deserves a discount. I've never heard of a manufacturer putting a patch over a mere cosmetic issue.

Before your last post, I was going to strongly suggest that you name the manufacturer for the watchful benefit of us all. Further, I would have emailed a link to this thread to that manufacturer to let them know what the highest ranked open canoe discussion group on the internet thinks of their sales practices. If someone is screwing around with a customer's $4,000, they deserve all the negative leverage that can be applied to them. They also deserve public kudos when they provide good products and services.

 

[M Clemens]

I can certainly understand Art's reluctance to call out the builder publicly at this point, since they have agreed to replace the boat. This Forum, as well as Paddling.com, Amazon and a host of other sites that employ a buy and sell function have a review and rating system that benefits us all as informed consumers. I hope that when the situation is fully resolved a review that highlights the entire episode will be forthcoming. I was about to place a $4000 order as well and was one of the folks who reached out to Art privately (it's a small neighborhood of builders in that space and I was quite frankly alarmed by this post). However, a content search of past posts confirmed my suspicions to a sufficient degree that I am deferring my order and will reassess my needs.

 

[Gamma1214]

Two huge problems with review & rating systems are that bad things get reported all the time and a retailer / manufacturer has to stand on his head (and, often, beg) for someone to take the time to post anything positive. The second is that people often trash the seller before he's had opportunity to make amends (although not in this case, it seems) or write reviews before they've even used the product.

Oh, wait, one more problem... today, it seems that we say "I'm sorry" by stroking a check and the amount of that check is indicative of the level of our remorse.

I'm glad the canoe is being replaced but I applaud Art's decision to remain mute on identifying the manufacturer. Hopefully, it was a one-off, caught-them-on-a-bad-day kind of thing and we can all stand to enjoy the benefit of the doubt once in awhile.

 

[M Clemens]

Two huge problems with review & rating systems are that bad things get reported all the time and a retailer / manufacturer has to stand on his head (and, often, beg) for someone to take the time to post anything positive. The second is that people often trash the seller before he's had opportunity to make amends (although not in this case, it seems) or write reviews before they've even used the product.

Oh, wait, one more problem... today, it seems that we say "I'm sorry" by stroking a check and the amount of that check is indicative of the level of our remorse.

I'm glad the canoe is being replaced but I applaud Art's decision to remain mute on identifying the manufacturer. Hopefully, it was a one-off, caught-them-on-a-bad-day kind of thing and we can all stand to enjoy the benefit of the doubt once in awhile.

Interesting perspective. I've always found such problems to be indicative of comments in discussion forum threads, rather than reviews. I have been reading the reviews on p-net/paddling.com for years and cannot say I have ever picked up on such problems. I dare say I have learned quite a bit about specific models and manufacturers. My suggestion was, of course, that a review be made after the resolution of the issue.

I am curious, though. How would we ever know if such issues were one-off if people like Art did not feel free to make these issues known to the rest of us folks?

 

[Gamma1214]

I am curious, though. How would we ever know if such issues were one-off if people like Art did not feel free to make these issues known to the rest of us folks?

Don't get me wrong, I take no issue with how any of this was handled on this thread. In fact, I think it was about perfect: Ask others to be certain that you're not being overly picky, talk to the retailer again to see if a resolution can be had and, having reached a satisfactory agreement, ensure that you don't run down the retailer.

I've spent most of my life in small business and customer service so I may be more patient than I should be when working through quality or performance issues but, once a retailer is trashed online, there is usually no amount of retraction that will redeem them completely.

 

[M Clemens]

Don't get me wrong, I take no issue with how any of this was handled on this thread. In fact, I think it was about perfect: Ask others to be certain that you're not being overly picky, talk to the retailer again to see if a resolution can be had and, having reached a satisfactory agreement, ensure that you don't run down the retailer.

I've spent most of my life in small business and customer service so I may be more patient than I should be when working through quality or performance issues but, once a retailer is trashed online, there is usually no amount of retraction that will redeem them completely.

I think if anyone had an issue in this thread it was with the builder's initial response to Art. That kind of response to a customer of a $4000 boat deserves some criticism, not necessarily getting 'trashed'. In my book, the issue will be resolved when a boat is delivered that meets Art's expectation, with perhaps a discount for having to wait another four months for delivery.

 

[Gamma1214]

I suppose you're right and that's one reason that I abstained from commenting initially... I seriously doubt that I'll ever spend $4000 on a canoe when I've never spent even 1/2 of that on a car so I have no idea what my expectations would be for such an investment.

In the end, it seems that they've come to an agreement that both can live with and, hopefully, the new boat meets or exceeds Art's expectations.

 

[ppine]

Its a second. I bought a North Wind from Sierra Trading Post with a similar factory patch. I paid only $600 for it and sold it for more than that.

 

[Black_Fly]

Blemish. Should replace the boat or provide a good discount. How is a “pulled thread” not imbedded in resin?

 

[MrPoling]

I've been wondering to what exactly happened to this canoe. It sounds to me like the innermost fabric must have had a blemish, perhaps a spot where the weave was pulled apart or something.

Hiding it with a patch seems funny too. The patch implies something is broken. It even begs whether it was a cosmetic defect or not.

I wonder if shining a bright light through it could reveal what was going on?

I do have some sympathy for the manufacturers, and especially the workers doing the layup. I'm sure it's hard to to make a large piece like a canoe cosmetically perfect on both sides. There's no way to effectively recycle it either. The term blemish makes a lot of sense. I'll be more willing to accept a blemish boat (but not patched) after this discussion