- Joined
- Jun 22, 2017
- Messages
- 903
- Reaction score
- 434
Carbon straight shaft for the win
-
Happy National Eggnog Day! 🎄🥛😵
Double paddle..worth it?
- Thread starter Blukanu
- Start date
You know? Even here in this canoe desert, I've bought three used carbon bents off of CL. But never have seen a straight carbon single blade. That seems odd.
But anything canoe related is odd around here.
I have a straight-shaft carbon blade I bought for paddling a solo play boat but don't use the paddle much. The grip is asymmetrical so the paddle doesn't roll in your palm very well and the "backward" grip isn't very comfortable.
I've been looking for a symmetrical grip replacement but the builder doesn't carry one and I haven't found a grip with the correct OD to fit the ID of the carbon shaft.
Last edited:
Maybe that's why.
And then one has to wonder why a paddle maker would put an asymmetrical grip on a straight paddle. I would assume that the vast majority of us who would appreciate a straight carbon single blade would know better than to ask for anything other than a symmetrical grip.
Are you sure the blade is symetrical, I know I have been playing with asym grips and blade. They can still be used on either side, but offer a lot more options for comfort and blade performance IMO
I'm guessing most people who move to carbon believe they're going to get a big speed boost from a bent shaft so that's what they go for and that most of the people who prefer a straight stick want to stick with wood. I also imagine most people think of a straight paddle as their backup/beater paddle only to be used in a pinch or in situations that might damage their carbon paddle.
I had a couple ZRE straight shafts. I still own one of them, the other was stolen. One with the standard palm grim and one with the wood T-grip. The T-grip definitely adds more control and I found it to be more comfortable for anything other than forward strokes.
To be honest I don't use it very much. I've used it for running whitewater and it's taken some hard shots without damage but I've since built my own straight blade paddle (carbon over cedar) and I tend to use that when I feel like using a straight blade. If I was starting over again I probably wouldn't buy another straight carbon unless it was a dedicated whitewater blade.
I do think there is a bit of an untapped market for them however. Probably what's required is some marketing.
Alan
I've got a Werner Journey straight shaft canoe paddle that I use all the time. It's great, only problem is it makes my wooden paddles feel like clubs.
The blade is symmetrical enough; it's not exactly symmetrical but it works. It's the asymmetrical grip that I don't like for functional freestyle stuff.
I tried a carbon straight-shaft paddle because it's lighter not because I would go faster. My favorite wood paddle weighs 18 oz, which isn't too bad, but the straight carbon blade only weighs 10 oz, like my carbon bent shaft paddles. Plus I've been impressed with the durability of a carbon blade compared to a thin wood laminate blade.
Last edited:
I considered that but instead am trying to find an easy solution, like a readi-to-buy wood grip that I can sand down a bit. The only ones I've found so far are too small in diameter and I'm not sure how to do a DIY fix.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2024
- Messages
- 47
- Reaction score
- 86
I have a Bending Branches straight shaft paddle with an asymmetric grip but symmetric blade. It makes no sense to me.
If I wanted to go that route I'd wrap the stub of the grip with fiberglass to build thickness. If it was just a little too small I'd wrap 1 or 2 layers of fiberglass, wet it out with resin, and stick it in the shaft all at the same time.
If it was going to take more than 1 or 2 layers then I'd add the fiberglass first to be sure it kept it's shape and position and then insert it into the shaft after the bulking layers on the grip had cured.
Alan
Wow, having been busy researching and buying another canoe this past week, I hadn't looked at this thread since my last pro-single blade treatise to notice how it has exploded rhetorically and tangentially. That's all fine.
I do want to put in context why I quoted @Tsuga8 and responded to his quote the way I did. When I write strong opinion pieces here, which unfortunately may look like a criticism of a responded-to poster, as it apparently did here, I am almost always using the response simply as a rhetorical mechanism to allow me to address the hundreds of anonymous readers here every day and the many thousands of unknown readers in the future. My opinions or treatises or polemics or bloviations, or whatever you want to call them, are aimed at those broad audiences.
For example, I really have no idea how skilled a paddler most of you are in various waters and boats, but I readily admit that many highly skilled canoeists whom I do personally know do use double blades in certain boats or in certain circumstances. And some use double blades because medical issues cause pain when single blading. So, I'm not directing my polemical opinions at those canoeists, nor was I directing them at anyone in particular in this thread—though it may have appeared that way, which I regret.
What I do know, however, from 70+ years of paddling experience in all sorts of waters all over the world, is that the vast majority of canoeists (in traditional, bench seat canoes) who use double blades are doing so because they have not developed relevant single blade skills, especially newer canoeists. I was once one of them.
It is to this unknown-to-me audience, current and in the future, that I am trying to pass on my paddling experience and advice, colorful metaphors included. No one is required to follow it, much less agree with it on this site.
I do want to put in context why I quoted @Tsuga8 and responded to his quote the way I did. When I write strong opinion pieces here, which unfortunately may look like a criticism of a responded-to poster, as it apparently did here, I am almost always using the response simply as a rhetorical mechanism to allow me to address the hundreds of anonymous readers here every day and the many thousands of unknown readers in the future. My opinions or treatises or polemics or bloviations, or whatever you want to call them, are aimed at those broad audiences.
For example, I really have no idea how skilled a paddler most of you are in various waters and boats, but I readily admit that many highly skilled canoeists whom I do personally know do use double blades in certain boats or in certain circumstances. And some use double blades because medical issues cause pain when single blading. So, I'm not directing my polemical opinions at those canoeists, nor was I directing them at anyone in particular in this thread—though it may have appeared that way, which I regret.
What I do know, however, from 70+ years of paddling experience in all sorts of waters all over the world, is that the vast majority of canoeists (in traditional, bench seat canoes) who use double blades are doing so because they have not developed relevant single blade skills, especially newer canoeists. I was once one of them.
It is to this unknown-to-me audience, current and in the future, that I am trying to pass on my paddling experience and advice, colorful metaphors included. No one is required to follow it, much less agree with it on this site.
I usually paddle a sit-on-bottom Hemlock Nessmuk XL, with a double paddle... My Chum is a single stick, but I bring a double on some trips, in case of wind... I know there are tricks to it, but I just feel like I'm making better use of my energy in the wind with a double paddle.
I started my paddling career in 1980 on the dark side, as some here call it. Back then, here in Switzerland, kayaks were used exclusively for whitewater, maneuvered by a double blade paddle. Only a few 'old farts' at the local canoe club paddled in open canoes on lakes. We laughed at them.***
On our first canoe trip in Canada, we learned about the advantages of an open canoe that is propelled by single blade paddles. While preparing for this trip, the idea of using double blade paddles came up. But in 1985 in Sioux Lookout, Ontario, we found nothing like that.
About 15 years ago my longtime tripping buddy had to quit canoeing due to health reasons. I couldn't find another trip mate so I decided to go solo. Again the idea of using a double blade paddle came up. I got hold of various such tools and tried many things to use them effectively. But after about half an hour I always got severe back pain. The fact that I had broken my back as a young man is almost certainly the cause for that. So I began to intensively learn and practice the use of a single blade. To find out what I was doing wrong and to improve my technique, I even filmed myself. If you're interested to watch my attempt on the "bad" (clumsy?, awkward?) side, which is my right hand side, klick on the link below (I hope it works).
https://www.mycloud.ch/l/L00F842BC5342AE70F4CBDC31C8C986CC53D72CD4D5B1A1DDDD05231C20756F58
Some have mentioned the possible better speed when using a double paddle. That could be the case, I just don't know. If I compare my speed on the lake to that of a sea kayaker or even a rower in a skiff, I am slow. But I often say to myself why should I rush if it is not necessary.
Long story short: I'm a dedicated single stick paddler.
Merry Christmas.
André
p.s. ***Now I'm one of that 'old farts' who are laughed at
On our first canoe trip in Canada, we learned about the advantages of an open canoe that is propelled by single blade paddles. While preparing for this trip, the idea of using double blade paddles came up. But in 1985 in Sioux Lookout, Ontario, we found nothing like that.
About 15 years ago my longtime tripping buddy had to quit canoeing due to health reasons. I couldn't find another trip mate so I decided to go solo. Again the idea of using a double blade paddle came up. I got hold of various such tools and tried many things to use them effectively. But after about half an hour I always got severe back pain. The fact that I had broken my back as a young man is almost certainly the cause for that. So I began to intensively learn and practice the use of a single blade. To find out what I was doing wrong and to improve my technique, I even filmed myself. If you're interested to watch my attempt on the "bad" (clumsy?, awkward?) side, which is my right hand side, klick on the link below (I hope it works).
https://www.mycloud.ch/l/L00F842BC5342AE70F4CBDC31C8C986CC53D72CD4D5B1A1DDDD05231C20756F58
Some have mentioned the possible better speed when using a double paddle. That could be the case, I just don't know. If I compare my speed on the lake to that of a sea kayaker or even a rower in a skiff, I am slow. But I often say to myself why should I rush if it is not necessary.
Long story short: I'm a dedicated single stick paddler.
Merry Christmas.
André
p.s. ***Now I'm one of that 'old farts' who are laughed at
I took another look at a grip I have on hand (a used Bending Branches Sunburst grip) and at the shaft of the paddle (ZRE medium straight) and the shaft is oval where I'd have to cut it. I tried heating the shaft to soften the epoxy to remove the grip but it's not going to budge. Shaft is ~1.00" x ~0.75" ID and grip stub is ~0.875" ID round and so I'll have to both sand and fill the grip stub to fit, unless I can force the round grip stub into the oval shaft. Makes it much more difficult to get it all aligned with any precision. I also looked at the blade and the way it's attached to the shaft is more wonky than I remembered (see photo). It's aligned more to one side of the shaft, which makes sense for bent shaft paddles but not for straight shaft. Now I remember why I didn't pursue putting a new grip on the paddle. ZRE doesn't provide many photos of their paddles so when I ordered it I didn't realize that their straight blade paddles aren't symmetrical. Maybe I'll just use the paddle as is for navigating rocky sections of shallow streams. An expensive beater blade. Lesson learned.
Attachments
Some data to support this can be found in the world record sprint racing times listed at the link below. Your mileage may vary...
Benson
List of world best times in canoeing - Wikipedia
Last edited:
Well said, Me too.
I started my paddling career in 1980 on the dark side, as some here call it. Back then, here in Switzerland, kayaks were used exclusively for whitewater, maneuvered by a double blade paddle. Only a few 'old farts' at the local canoe club paddled in open canoes on lakes. We laughed at them.***
On our first canoe trip in Canada, we learned about the advantages of an open canoe that is propelled by single blade paddles. While preparing for this trip, the idea of using double blade paddles came up. But in 1985 in Sioux Lookout, Ontario, we found nothing like that.
About 15 years ago my longtime tripping buddy had to quit canoeing due to health reasons. I couldn't find another trip mate so I decided to go solo. Again the idea of using a double blade paddle came up. I got hold of various such tools and tried many things to use them effectively. But after about half an hour I always got severe back pain. The fact that I had broken my back as a young man is almost certainly the cause for that. So I began to intensively learn and practice the use of a single blade. To find out what I was doing wrong and to improve my technique, I even filmed myself. If you're interested to watch my attempt on the "bad" (clumsy?, awkward?) side, which is my right hand side, klick on the link below (I hope it works).
https://www.mycloud.ch/l/L00F842BC5342AE70F4CBDC31C8C986CC53D72CD4D5B1A1DDDD05231C20756F58
Some have mentioned the possible better speed when using a double paddle. That could be the case, I just don't know. If I compare my speed on the lake to that of a sea kayaker or even a rower in a skiff, I am slow. But I often say to myself why should I rush if it is not necessary.
Long story short: I'm a dedicated single stick paddler.
Merry Christmas.
André
p.s. ***Now I'm one of that 'old farts' who are laughed at
I guess I actually see some one who is doing what they need to do, to keep getting out there ... good on you ... I wish you good paddling
Some data to support this can be found in the world record sprint racing times listed at the link below. Your mileage may vary...
Benson
List of world best times in canoeing - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Because I have learned that data and especially charts or graphs never tell the whole story, I immediately suspected there is missing information on this link. And I was right. You can't do a meaningful comparison between the paddle types with this data because the boats are also different.
