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Happy Birthday, Stan "the Man" Musial (1920-2013)! ⚾🐦
Bear Attack?
- Thread starter Mihun09
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Bite his/her tongue, that hurts for anyone/thing.
G
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Nuts - still no "like" button.
I gotta remember to stop napping on the portage trail…….
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/347142/Close-call
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/347142/Close-call
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Well, been studying Gavia's bear picture (#40) above, if that's the result of mating, I don't want to be around when they're feeling cranky! In humans, scaring like that occurs after, sometimes long after the love making ends.
Memaquay, That sure sounds like a fun town (city?) The victim is a muskrat dam man, Mr. Muskrat was sleeping on 7th. Ave. and a bear trail when the provisions procurement/attack occurred. I can't help but wonder if the bear thought he was recycling some discarded item?
Best Wishes all (esp. the bear) Rob
Memaquay, That sure sounds like a fun town (city?) The victim is a muskrat dam man, Mr. Muskrat was sleeping on 7th. Ave. and a bear trail when the provisions procurement/attack occurred. I can't help but wonder if the bear thought he was recycling some discarded item?
Best Wishes all (esp. the bear) Rob
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What do you think about putting up a warning system around the permimeter of your camp to let you know if Mr. or Ms. Bruin (or something else) has arrived? Check this out at 12:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpLMuH-aIGk
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That's a neat little device Gavia. I couldn't catch what's it called or where you get them. I made a device that works much like the one in the video, but mine is a bunch larger and not nearly so neat. I made a write up w/ photos but I don't know where it went.
The guy talks about wrapping the fish line all the way around the camp, in practice I'm not too sure how well that would work. Every time you bend the line past a tree that's friction added and the opportunity for the line to get snagged on something.
The few times I've actually used mine, I looked for probable routes of travel and was content to just have an "L" What that means is an anchor point, bend around a tree and back to the alarm. Thinking on it now, I don't suppose that you couldn't have several separate trip lines all leading into the trigger thing. Might be a mess the next morning when it came time to pack up.
Without knowing what I'm talking about for sure, I think that the amount of sound produced depends on the electrical power available. In my clunky alarm, I have a battery pack using AA batteries that gives me 9 volts to make noise. Wonder how much noise that alarm in the video produces, of course if your hearing is good you need less.
Truth be told, I depend on my dog to tell me if something is amiss in or near camp. Around the home place here, my little rough collie pup is very ready to give the alarm if something outside her range of experience happens. We will just have to wait and see how that translates to camping, but I'm hopeful.
Best Wishes, Rob
The guy talks about wrapping the fish line all the way around the camp, in practice I'm not too sure how well that would work. Every time you bend the line past a tree that's friction added and the opportunity for the line to get snagged on something.
The few times I've actually used mine, I looked for probable routes of travel and was content to just have an "L" What that means is an anchor point, bend around a tree and back to the alarm. Thinking on it now, I don't suppose that you couldn't have several separate trip lines all leading into the trigger thing. Might be a mess the next morning when it came time to pack up.
Without knowing what I'm talking about for sure, I think that the amount of sound produced depends on the electrical power available. In my clunky alarm, I have a battery pack using AA batteries that gives me 9 volts to make noise. Wonder how much noise that alarm in the video produces, of course if your hearing is good you need less.
Truth be told, I depend on my dog to tell me if something is amiss in or near camp. Around the home place here, my little rough collie pup is very ready to give the alarm if something outside her range of experience happens. We will just have to wait and see how that translates to camping, but I'm hopeful.
Best Wishes, Rob
People often feel safer bringing their dogs camping. But my dog thinks everything is friendly.. I don't trust her for a minute to guard me. People who live in bear country have a pack of dogs. Not one. Dogs work best in a group.. In that case I give the dogs a better chance vs bear.. One on one..not so good..
Shearwater has a bear system for sale if you are interested.
Shearwater has a bear system for sale if you are interested.
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I see what you're saying Yellow Canoe, but Rowan only has to bark warning I'll do the rest. I really don't want her getting close to the bear.
Your friendly dog might surprise you; I had a lab once who loved everybody, had to watch he didn't climb into a strangers truck just for the fun of the ride. Anyways, I went into a sporting goods store for something and they had a mounted brown bear (standing erect) off to one side. I didn't notice it and my dog was looking for who was available to give him a scratch. All of a sudden the dog smelled or saw that bear and exploded. Fangs barred, hair on end, hysteric barking. Holy smokers!
He'd never seen a bear before but he didn't need any second opinion on the subject of bears! I had a job of work to get him back past that bear and out the door.
So I'd suggest that maybe you just never know!
Best Wishes, Rob
P.S. I don't think I had anything to do with the weather, but wouldn't it be a hoot if I could? I'd send a bunch of rain from here down to those poor folks in Texas.
Your friendly dog might surprise you; I had a lab once who loved everybody, had to watch he didn't climb into a strangers truck just for the fun of the ride. Anyways, I went into a sporting goods store for something and they had a mounted brown bear (standing erect) off to one side. I didn't notice it and my dog was looking for who was available to give him a scratch. All of a sudden the dog smelled or saw that bear and exploded. Fangs barred, hair on end, hysteric barking. Holy smokers!
He'd never seen a bear before but he didn't need any second opinion on the subject of bears! I had a job of work to get him back past that bear and out the door.
So I'd suggest that maybe you just never know!
Best Wishes, Rob
P.S. I don't think I had anything to do with the weather, but wouldn't it be a hoot if I could? I'd send a bunch of rain from here down to those poor folks in Texas.
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I have always thought that some close in pyrotechnics wouild be useful. Like as in between you and the intended recipient. We used to have grenade simulators that resembled a railroad flare...very loud and quite handy. I have thought about having some large firecrackers taped together to produce a nice loud bang without the hassle of having to aim it . Light, toss, wait for the bang. I imagine it would be especially useful in camp, at night, to be used right outside the tent. First response kind of thing. That gives you time to wake up, calm down, and arm yourself. Come to think of it...some railroad flares might be handy for getting things sorted out too.
Thinking back to my childhood, which included a number of poachers, it seems they all had nice big flashlights. I seem to remember that you could get a mount for one to be used on the barrel of a shotgun. Not the wimpy little mag lites of today but a massive 4 battery light that really throws some light on the situation.
I like the idea of a warning system around your campsite too, but the practical realities of it seem rather daunting. I would want one with an audible alarm as opposed to an electrical charge. Both might be nice. Dogs can work but are a pain to drag along and not overly selective about what they bark at.
Christy
Thinking back to my childhood, which included a number of poachers, it seems they all had nice big flashlights. I seem to remember that you could get a mount for one to be used on the barrel of a shotgun. Not the wimpy little mag lites of today but a massive 4 battery light that really throws some light on the situation.
I like the idea of a warning system around your campsite too, but the practical realities of it seem rather daunting. I would want one with an audible alarm as opposed to an electrical charge. Both might be nice. Dogs can work but are a pain to drag along and not overly selective about what they bark at.
Christy
There are bear bangers, which I've never used or even seen in person.
I have read very conflicting advice on how and where to aim bear bangers. Some say to shoot it over the bear's head. But that means it would probably explode behind the bear, which might cause the bear to run toward ME.
Others say to shoot the banger into the ground between you and the bear. That would be like the firecracker idea. However, the banger explosive may ricochet off the ground and go behind the bear before it's timed discharge goes off.
Still others say to shoot the bear banger vertically into the air. That makes some non-directional sense.
Shooting at the bear:
Test shooting horizontally:
Test shooting vertically:
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I have the pen launch bangers and have test fired them. They tend to corkscrew through the air and go off with a nice bang. It would certainly be easier to load than the second video with the lil gun. Last September, last night of a trip, a group came up river and settled on the lake across the peninsula, maybe 500 yards away. They had a bunch of kids with them and next thing we know, a barrage of firecrackers going off for a few minutes. Most likely reason to scare away every living creature to keep the kids happy. Mind you, there was no chance in heck of ever seeing any wildlife from then on, good thing we were leaving the next day.
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I have the pen launch bangers too.. The only way I can seem to fire them biomechanically well is up.. You want the bang between you and the bear.. as Glenn indicated in back of the bear may have a very poor outcome.
It is nice to hear from some people that know what they are talking about. What you do beforehand makes a lot of difference. Find a good place to camp. If you land your canoe on a nice sandy beach with bear tracks, go somewhere else. If there are meadows and foraging plants, don't camp there. Sleep away from your food.
While portaging make some noise especially in the brush or areas with little visibility. I ran into a bear on a portage in BWCA once. He took one look at the canoe on my shoulders and could not leave fast enough. The rules for hiking are the same. Make some noise. I like to sing in a loud voice when it looks like bear habitat. Once on a trail in northern BC the human foot prints were covered with caribou, moose, and bear tracks. I loudly recited what dialogue I could remember from the movie "Caddy Shack."
Do the right things and your chances of being attacked are much smaller. I bring dogs as the first line of defense. They have chased bears out of camps numerous times. They are brave in a group of three. I carry bear spray now in a holster. In a pack it does no good because problems develop quickly. I always carry a large caliber revolver. Sometimes a warning shot or two can save your butt. Working in SE Alaska and seeing bears everyday helped me understand their habits. Never hike with anyone that sneaks around and says thing like "I hope we see a bear."
While portaging make some noise especially in the brush or areas with little visibility. I ran into a bear on a portage in BWCA once. He took one look at the canoe on my shoulders and could not leave fast enough. The rules for hiking are the same. Make some noise. I like to sing in a loud voice when it looks like bear habitat. Once on a trail in northern BC the human foot prints were covered with caribou, moose, and bear tracks. I loudly recited what dialogue I could remember from the movie "Caddy Shack."
Do the right things and your chances of being attacked are much smaller. I bring dogs as the first line of defense. They have chased bears out of camps numerous times. They are brave in a group of three. I carry bear spray now in a holster. In a pack it does no good because problems develop quickly. I always carry a large caliber revolver. Sometimes a warning shot or two can save your butt. Working in SE Alaska and seeing bears everyday helped me understand their habits. Never hike with anyone that sneaks around and says thing like "I hope we see a bear."
In my case its often going to the mailbox. But yes sing to yourself. In my case no bear would stick around. And those wee jingle bells that are sold as bear bells..save your money. Take a cowbell if you don't want to sing.
I hope we see a bear.. I still do.. and yes I do like to watch them.
I hope we see a bear.. I still do.. and yes I do like to watch them.
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Just an observation about that small orange pistol: just because it's cute doesn't mean it's harmless. The guy really needs to keep his hand/fingers away from the end of the barrel.
Rob
Rob
For those, in Washington State and other places, who might prefer to shoot bear bangers out of a 12 gauge shotgun:
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Thanks for the interesting video Glenn, still and all I think I'll stick with my Lightfield rubber slug shotgun shells. Having watched several of these "bear banger" videos the chance of producing a "bang" on the far side of the bear seems to be a real possibility. And it's not too hard to imagine driving him closer to you, there's no choice how far out the banger goes off. Was it Hoop who said that bangers ought to be shot off up in the air above you?
Frankly, to me it seems that the rubber slug fired from a shotgun sidesteps all these problems. The "bang" when it occurs comes from very close to me, so if you're a bear and want to avoid that bang noise you avoid me too. Then right after the bang (if you're a bear) you are hit with the rubber slug, not lethal or even wound producing but I'm sure it hurts. So...very rapidly in the bears mind are these impressions: Human+Noise+Pain = runaway!
All these various hand held "bear banger" things have some kind of launcher that you've got to operate, in other words your hands are occupied with the device. What ever your second line of defense is you've got to drop the launcher and pick up your axe or what ever.
With most conventional pump shotguns the magazine holds four. I carry three, it's easier on the spring over time and I have the ready option of loading in a non-lethal shell. If time and circumstances and the bear allow me the luxury of loading in that non-lethal shell I'll be really happy.
If there's no time or if the bear disregards the warning, then the shotgun is right there in my hands, no looking around to find it.
Best Wishes, Rob
Frankly, to me it seems that the rubber slug fired from a shotgun sidesteps all these problems. The "bang" when it occurs comes from very close to me, so if you're a bear and want to avoid that bang noise you avoid me too. Then right after the bang (if you're a bear) you are hit with the rubber slug, not lethal or even wound producing but I'm sure it hurts. So...very rapidly in the bears mind are these impressions: Human+Noise+Pain = runaway!
All these various hand held "bear banger" things have some kind of launcher that you've got to operate, in other words your hands are occupied with the device. What ever your second line of defense is you've got to drop the launcher and pick up your axe or what ever.
With most conventional pump shotguns the magazine holds four. I carry three, it's easier on the spring over time and I have the ready option of loading in a non-lethal shell. If time and circumstances and the bear allow me the luxury of loading in that non-lethal shell I'll be really happy.
If there's no time or if the bear disregards the warning, then the shotgun is right there in my hands, no looking around to find it.
Best Wishes, Rob
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Actually, the pen launchers are pretty simple to operate and the good part is you can carry them with a supply of bangers and flares on your belt in a camera pouch and you always have them handy. This makes them much more useful to me than a shotgun that will only make one trip across a portage with me. Or be broken down in a pack where I cant get it easily. Or even in a park where they are not allowed. Sooooo, the hand held bangers are the ticket for us. Even me, gun girl that I am.
I heard an interesting explanation for the use of bear spray from a guy that makes the stuff. He got into it after being mauled by a grizzly. He contends that trying to stop a bear who is in full charge is like trying to stop a frieght train. Too much mass and energy to have much luck at it. The statiistics are not encouraging. 55% of the people who defend against bears with a firearm get mauled anyway. Hmmm. I have shot deer who dont die right away at close range so I can imagine a bear being pretty uncooperative that way as well.
His point it that the spray is not meant to stop the charge, but to deflect it. You are not trying to stop the bear, just mess up his senses so he calls off the attack until he gets his crap in order again. Which hopefully will be long enough for you to deploy the backup plan. Possibly a gun, maybe some peter pan getaway boots. Open a can of spam and heave it at the bear..It's a bear, it will go for the food. The main point is to use the spray and bangers as a first line of defense in a multi layered plan.
Going toe to toe with a bear is a low percentage option and any thing that keeps a greater separation between you is ideal.
I heard an interesting explanation for the use of bear spray from a guy that makes the stuff. He got into it after being mauled by a grizzly. He contends that trying to stop a bear who is in full charge is like trying to stop a frieght train. Too much mass and energy to have much luck at it. The statiistics are not encouraging. 55% of the people who defend against bears with a firearm get mauled anyway. Hmmm. I have shot deer who dont die right away at close range so I can imagine a bear being pretty uncooperative that way as well.
His point it that the spray is not meant to stop the charge, but to deflect it. You are not trying to stop the bear, just mess up his senses so he calls off the attack until he gets his crap in order again. Which hopefully will be long enough for you to deploy the backup plan. Possibly a gun, maybe some peter pan getaway boots. Open a can of spam and heave it at the bear..It's a bear, it will go for the food. The main point is to use the spray and bangers as a first line of defense in a multi layered plan.
Going toe to toe with a bear is a low percentage option and any thing that keeps a greater separation between you is ideal.
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I do love these bear threads!
First about statistics in general: I don't trust them, it seems that anymore people are so polarized and fervent in their opinions that fudging on data presentation is more a matter of ultimately bringing the truth to the unwashed than reprehensible lying. And then, even if the statistic was the very best that somebody could do, honestly presented, you're still dealing with a bunch of people's experience. Having watched humanity most of my life, they really are a sloppy half-arsed crew. Within the limited range of things that I do, I'm a bunch better than that.
If I were to look to any group to act as a object lesson, I'd want to know what Alaskan guides carry to protect themselves and their clients.
Looking back at the start of this thread, Mihun posed several scenarios, in them the person was pretty well screwed from the start. The bear spray guy was suggesting that the bear was a freight train. Now, all this might be fun and dramatic but I'd suggest that none of these situations would have started from a full on attack at the beginning. Oh...to be fair, if you stepped between an unsuspecting momma bear and her cub in the middle of a berry patch you'd probably be killed and find yourself ragged arsed and chewed up, talking to St. Peter before you knew you were in trouble. But most times in situations between humans and bears it doesn't play out like that.
Actually, thinking about it while I'm typing here, pretty much always there's some time otherwise all this talk about "what to do about bears" wouldn't ever happen. You'd worry about bear attacks just about like lightening from a clear sky.
I'm not trying to convert anybody to shotguns and if it ever comes down to it I hope that whatever someone selects works for them. For me, my shotgun is the most lethal thing I can carry and presented with a situation where my future is in doubt, it's the thing I want in my hands. Then watching the bear over the barrel, if I have time I'll load a rubber slug shell, and offer him a reason why it's a bad idea to continue.
Best Wishes, Rob
First about statistics in general: I don't trust them, it seems that anymore people are so polarized and fervent in their opinions that fudging on data presentation is more a matter of ultimately bringing the truth to the unwashed than reprehensible lying. And then, even if the statistic was the very best that somebody could do, honestly presented, you're still dealing with a bunch of people's experience. Having watched humanity most of my life, they really are a sloppy half-arsed crew. Within the limited range of things that I do, I'm a bunch better than that.
If I were to look to any group to act as a object lesson, I'd want to know what Alaskan guides carry to protect themselves and their clients.
Looking back at the start of this thread, Mihun posed several scenarios, in them the person was pretty well screwed from the start. The bear spray guy was suggesting that the bear was a freight train. Now, all this might be fun and dramatic but I'd suggest that none of these situations would have started from a full on attack at the beginning. Oh...to be fair, if you stepped between an unsuspecting momma bear and her cub in the middle of a berry patch you'd probably be killed and find yourself ragged arsed and chewed up, talking to St. Peter before you knew you were in trouble. But most times in situations between humans and bears it doesn't play out like that.
Actually, thinking about it while I'm typing here, pretty much always there's some time otherwise all this talk about "what to do about bears" wouldn't ever happen. You'd worry about bear attacks just about like lightening from a clear sky.
I'm not trying to convert anybody to shotguns and if it ever comes down to it I hope that whatever someone selects works for them. For me, my shotgun is the most lethal thing I can carry and presented with a situation where my future is in doubt, it's the thing I want in my hands. Then watching the bear over the barrel, if I have time I'll load a rubber slug shell, and offer him a reason why it's a bad idea to continue.
Best Wishes, Rob
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