River and Lake Canoe Discussion and Input

Steve in Idaho said:

That wasn't very clear. What I was getting at is that experience will teach you what kind of canoe(s) you will ultimately find most useful. You might get lucky with the first solo canoe you buy, but spending time in a variety of "wrong" canoes - enough time to get to know them - is enlightening in several ways. With careful attention to used price and timing, you can trade canoes without losing significant funds. Eventually, you'll be able to pretty much know what a particular canoe will do just by looking at it.

But the most important thing is to get into any decent solo canoe and learn to make it do what it can with a single blade. That's your best stepping off point IMO.

Click to expand...

You are right; my experience with what works (for me) and what doesn't is low. I've MADE everything work so far, but I don't know what "good" is yet. I'll add a bit of canoeing experience to what I've mentioned, and that's a generic recreational downriver canoe trip, the kind you go to a livery and do. Though I really had no idea about anything, I did find it difficult to maneuver around corners, in current. I feel that is partly because I have no idea what to do beyond what is kind of intuitive and also because it tracked so well and didn't spin well. That gives me a bit of understanding between a canoe that is a great straight ahead type, and one that spins like a bobber upon demand. All what this means is that I agree, my experience is low, and is mostly internet study based.

gumpus said:

Just adding that I agree with the others that I believe you'll be fine with the Phoenix performance on flat water. If you have no problem with the weight of the IXP lay-up it seems like a great choice since you'd be lucky to wear it out in a lifetime.

Click to expand...

It is seeming like if I had to purchase blind, that it would. I know we don't want that, but things are pointing that way.

gumpus said:

Here you go

Northstar Phoenix Solo Canoe - Lightly Used with Paddles

I'm including a burgundy waterproof cover for it if you need to keep it outside for a time, and a 56" bending branches straight paddle as well as the 260cm bending branches impression double blade paddle.

paddling.com

Click to expand...

Thanks for this.

I wanted to mention that you all have been very helpful. Things to think about, alternatives, etc. I appreciate your participation.

Some time back I was looking for a flatwater boat and through discussions on this board came to the conclusion that the Wilderness would not be a good match for me due to gravity. I'm 6'2 260 lb.'s and at times bring more gear then I should. For these cold weather, heavy laden trips the thought was the Wilderness might not provide the capacity I would need. I ended up going with the often despised Wenonah Solo Plus and it has worked out very well. I can throw everything in for a solo trip with room to spare and freeboard galore. I put a CCS cover on it and will sheepishly admit I've had water over the bow on way to many occasions. Go to Hayward Outfitters in Hayward, WI and pick up a discounted blem, and then drive directly to CCS and they will install the cover. (You can also do it yourself.) Have you back in Ohio before you know it. Hayward also sells Esquif.

Good luck!

Keeled Over said:

Some time back I was looking for a flatwater boat and through discussions on this board came to the conclusion that the Wilderness would not be a good match for me due to gravity. I'm 6'2 260 lb.'s and at times bring more gear then I should. For these cold weather, heavy laden trips the thought was the Wilderness might not provide the capacity I would need. I ended up going with the often despised Wenonah Solo Plus and it has worked out very well. I can throw everything in for a solo trip with room to spare and freeboard galore. I put a CCS cover on it and will sheepishly admit I've had water over the bow on way to many occasions. Go to Hayward Outfitters in Hayward, WI and pick up a discounted blem, and then drive directly to CCS and they will install the cover. (You can also do it yourself.) Have you back in Ohio before you know it. Hayward also sells Esquif.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Stupid gravity! We are similar in size. If I bought a boat like the Solo Plus, I'd take the bow and stern seats out. I do not want partners in the boat with me, specifically a certain person I really like but have difficulties with as a person in the same boat as me. On long and stressful trips, sure, but not in the same boat. I've come to realize that is how we would have to do in order to stay good friends.

WonderMonkey said:

Stupid gravity! We are similar in size. If I bought a boat like the Solo Plus, I'd take the bow and stern seats out. I do not want partners in the boat with me, specifically a certain person I really like but have difficulties with as a person in the same boat as me. On long and stressful trips, sure, but not in the same boat. I've come to realize that is how we would have to do in order to stay good friends.

Click to expand...

Roger that - as soon as I arrived home I removed both seats and have never even thought about reinstalling them. In fact, I don't even know where they are.

Keeled Over said:

Roger that - as soon as I arrived home I removed both seats and have never even thought about reinstalling them. In fact, I don't even know where they are.

Click to expand...

Did you put thwarts in to compensate for the loss of structural strength by removing the seats?

WonderMonkey said:

Did you put thwarts in to compensate for the loss of structural strength by removing the seats?

Click to expand...

I did not - guys at the shop said not needed and I'll have to agree. I've dragged it fully loaded over all manner of dam and such with zero issue.

Well WonderMonkey, if you want a solo canoe that fits your needs I recommend that you jump on that used Phoenix. I expect you could get it for $1800...about half the price of a new one. In the unlikely event that you hate it you can just sell it and there's a good chance that you'll get what you paid or a little more. When I had a Phoenix my normal load was around 280 (me plus dog plus gear). Phoenix is lightly loaded with 280. The IXP lay-up is perfect for you. I'm very tempted to buy that boat.

You already discovered that a tandem is not a solo. I have a Northstar Polaris which has an excellent reputation as a solo for big loads and it solos surprisingly well for a tandem but it is simply not the same as a solo for fit, efficiency and responsiveness.

I do agree that a tandem outfitted for solo can be lovely. I'm 180 pounds and new dog is under 20 so I don't need a solo that can handle 500 pounds but for me it's luxurious to have so much space and comfort when I'm just puttering around and that's why I couldn't resist the used Starfire.

As far as which is better, a true solo or a small tandem set up solo, I think the answer is that they are both better.

memaquay said:

https://www.clippercanoes.com/products/caribou-s

Click to expand...

I was just thinking about this canoe you suggested, and had to take a look. I like Clipper's layups and pricing but I've overlooked this one. It does look very good for a large solo paddler with a load. What's intriguing to me is that I think I (not being large) would really like to pole it too. If I ever get a chance at a used one, I'm going to have to buy it.