Do you race it? We have some members who do race or have done so in the past.
-
Happy International Waffle Day! 🧇
Long, Fast Solo Canoes
- Thread starter Glenn MacGrady
- Start date
Do you race it? We have some members who do race or have done so in the past.
A fellow experienced racing friend contacted me about a year ago, saying he can't figure out why his new SR Blackwater kept wanting to veer to the left, no matter how he thought he was paddling as straight as he could. But without more correction strokes than he thought should be necessary, it kept turning left. Out of the water no deflection could be detected in the hull. So, he brought it to me to watch his technique and so I could try it out.
The Blackwater was one of three new solo canoes I was looking at over for the past couple of years, but I did not have the opportunity to try one before finally getting my long awaited PB Shadow, and also a Swift Cruiser. Bring that Blackwater to me. I watched him paddle from behind and sure enough it was veering left. I could not detect any paddle bias or errors in his technique. Then I gave it a try. Wow, I loved it. I paddled it straight as could be on track line, straight ahead and smooth no matter which side I paddled on. Even without any rocker I had no trouble turning it at will at speed in a tight buoy turn. I had no answer for my friend's problem, but my mind was made up and I soon put in an order with Ben Diller at SR.
So, my new Blackwater arrived on Thanksgiving week, when ice was already forming on my lake. It has been in the garage, safe from the more than 230 inches of deep snow during this rougher than average winter. I am looking forward to the next couple of weeks when, hopefully, with enough warmth to the air, I will give it straight line race speed and turning trials. I am hoping that the very twisting winding Brown's Tract will not be too much of a problem on the "90 miler" race route.
The Blackwater was one of three new solo canoes I was looking at over for the past couple of years, but I did not have the opportunity to try one before finally getting my long awaited PB Shadow, and also a Swift Cruiser. Bring that Blackwater to me. I watched him paddle from behind and sure enough it was veering left. I could not detect any paddle bias or errors in his technique. Then I gave it a try. Wow, I loved it. I paddled it straight as could be on track line, straight ahead and smooth no matter which side I paddled on. Even without any rocker I had no trouble turning it at will at speed in a tight buoy turn. I had no answer for my friend's problem, but my mind was made up and I soon put in an order with Ben Diller at SR.
So, my new Blackwater arrived on Thanksgiving week, when ice was already forming on my lake. It has been in the garage, safe from the more than 230 inches of deep snow during this rougher than average winter. I am looking forward to the next couple of weeks when, hopefully, with enough warmth to the air, I will give it straight line race speed and turning trials. I am hoping that the very twisting winding Brown's Tract will not be too much of a problem on the "90 miler" race route.
I am not a racer - too many competing interests! Just like going deep into the wilderness.
Sweet - what layup did you get? Will be interested to get your thoughts. I’ve always wanted to paddle a Shadow - would love to hear your comparison of the two. Was not interested in the Cruisers but the new 17.8 has my attention.
I'm going to split this "Long, Fast Solo Canoes" discussion off into its own thread by that name. It's an interesting topic.
Anything that says Canadienne on it. "No one will ever pass you on a river."
I got the Textreme Lite with light Textreme interior, Pro Package, and everything optional in all carbon, sliding seat and integrated footbrace. Race seat is elevated an extra inch as is my preference.
I have a first generation Rapidfire, which has been my workhorse tripping canoe and solo racer for many years. I came to realize that Joe of PB created the Shadow to compete with and beat in races all of the Rapidfires he had previously sold. After experiencing Joe and his employee team regularly blow away Rapidfires and every other solo canoe in the 90 miler, I became convinced of this. So, after trying an early one, I had wanted a Shadow for a long time, but for the build time Joe always told me during the 90 miler that it would be a full year wait. Not good enough to get one to train for the next year's race.
Continued long story, my wife secretly ordered a Shadow for me for our 50 year anniversary present, just as I mentioned wanting a Cruiser or a Blackwater or a GRB Legend (turns out the Legend would have been too small for me). Oops! Bill Swift and Charlie Wilson had a spring Swift Demo day in Saranac Lake where I got to try out a Cruiser. Charlie told me it was the right new boat for me. What advice from legend CEW. I loved its performance and ordered one. Bill said one month to build and deliver to me. True enough, Bill brought one built to my specs directly to my home in northern NY State just exactly a month later. He was on his delivery rounds, towing the biggest canoe carrier I have ever seen, as long as a tractor trailer with dozens of canoes on board. Even with my requested higher than highest stock seat, the Cruiser is more stable than both my RF and especially my now new Shadow. The Shadow with my requested higher than stock seat paddles great for me, though some would say it is quite tippy, I am sure. The Cruiser, very stable but not as fast as RF or Shadow, is best for a photo platform and jobs like carrying support and my tripping gear for Lean2Rescue team jobs that I support in the Adirondacks.
Why the higher seats, you ask? With the exception of low floor seated Hornbecks, I always paddle my solo canoes with a single blade paddle and sitting higher works and just feels better for me. A carryover, I suppose, from my years of paddling bow in large voyageur size race canoes.
Last edited:
Except most of the "long, fast solo canoes". I do like the Canadienne though, but only paddled the 17.
Are these "long fast solo canoes" decent tripping boats? Seems like they would be good for large bodies of water but not small rivers with obstacles. Will they fit all your gear if you pack light? Had a mid 80's Jensen Marathon tandem that I just sat in the middle on a foam pad and paddled with a kayak paddle. The paddling stations were just too small. It was very stable paddling it this way. The Cruiser 16.8 with bench seat peaked my interest after watching the Bill Swift infomercial. I probably would of liked my encounter more if it had a bench seat. So many boats so little time and money.
My first solo was a 16' Wenonah WWC-1, built to marathon racing specs below the waterline, and fullness above, designed for downriver whitewater racing. I've raced flatwater with it as well as paddled whitewater and tripped (to one week). It's spent a lot of time on rivers and tortuous creeks (what I call "gunkholing"). On flatwater, it paddled a lot like the old Wenonah 17' C1 Flatwater marathon boat, but I wanted additional depth for tripping. Now I paddle the 17'6" Wenonah Voyager, which is even faster, and I've done a couple of 2 week trips in it. This is all sit and switch paddling with tractor seats, where such boats come into their own (and for which they're designed). If you're looking to kneel with bench seats there are lots of other canoes more suitable.
I have paddled my PB Rapidfire for the majority of the 30 years I have been a wilderness high adventure wilderness guide trek leader instructor for BSA National Camping School in the Adirondacks. I carry all of my own personal gear and food, plus a good share of the group gear, not to mention extra demonstration equipment for my students for a week long training session. No need to pack particularly light in that boat. Separately, I have made many personal tripping paddles on waterways big and small with all my gear for several days at a time. Last year I used my new Cruiser to carry heavy tools and gear, tripping into Adirondack lakes to repair and build new leanto shelters for the NYSDEC. I feel I could do the same with my less stable new Shadow as well, as long as I had enough gear for bottom ballast to help with extra stability in questionable lake waves. I am certain I could do the same with the more stable Blackwater too, after I experienced a trial paddle in my friend's boat.
When not racing, I paddle on one side for as long as i like, 20 minutes or more, or until I feel the need to exercise muscle tone on the other side. Racing, of course, is all about hit and switch to go straight.
I am not a white water paddler by any means, and tend to avoid such, but have no trouble paddling and navigating and racing
on moderately flowing rivers such as the Oswegatchie, the Jordan, the Black, the Grasse, and similar Adirondack waters.
I too do like bench seats, since they better allow shifting of body weight and position for heeling the canoe as needed for steeerage and stability. But bench seats are a no go requiring extra supports on extra light hulls and gunwales, unless the hull is beefed up somewhat at the bench mounting location. But long solos tend to be narrow enough so that a shifting lean is easy enough without shifting butt in a bench seat.
Last edited:
I have a GRB Classic XL, and at 16'8" length and widths of 26" Max and 22" gunwale width, I consider it long and fast. I generally pack light and had to switch from my Granite Gear #4 portage Pack to a 90+ liter backpack just to get my gear int the narrow canoe. I don't really care for a heavy portage pack and am used to lightweight backpacking. It works for me.
Attachments
yknpdlr, you are in an enviable position with that stable of rides. Would love to see some photos of your Dillercraft in Textreme Light. How much does it weigh? Mine is 24# but stock it was 26#. Very robust build - it has stood up to all my abuse.
The GRB XL al la southernkevlar & Bill's new 17.8 cruiser (narrower by 2" than the 16.8) are a couple of others I'd love to try in addition to a Shadow.
zekabl, I can only speak for the Blackwater...the way I trip I could probably bring enough to stay out all summer if I had the time. Plenty of room unless you bring two kitchen sinks and a tuba. I do also own a Northstar Magic (gathering dust)...which can hold a lot but not as much as the Blackwater.
I checked and water has opened up by me in the last 24 hours...boat may get wet this weekend. The Blackwater will return to Quetico in 60 days; possibly Wabakimi later in the summer.
The GRB XL al la southernkevlar & Bill's new 17.8 cruiser (narrower by 2" than the 16.8) are a couple of others I'd love to try in addition to a Shadow.
zekabl, I can only speak for the Blackwater...the way I trip I could probably bring enough to stay out all summer if I had the time. Plenty of room unless you bring two kitchen sinks and a tuba. I do also own a Northstar Magic (gathering dust)...which can hold a lot but not as much as the Blackwater.
I checked and water has opened up by me in the last 24 hours...boat may get wet this weekend. The Blackwater will return to Quetico in 60 days; possibly Wabakimi later in the summer.
Did you work much with Camp Russell? It's my namesake, my father worked (and camped) there in the '60s and we visited every summer when I was a kid - breaks my heart to drive past the remains...
My wife was office manager at Camp Russell for 6 years in the early 2000's. She stayed in the small cabin on the lake shore and swam every morning. My daughter was Russell's first ever female waterfront director and then a voyageur high adventure trek guide. I guided 5 day wilderness treks when they were short handed of hired staff voyageur trek leaders for any particular week. Did you know a character called "Spike" (Alan Woodruff, high adventure director)? A sad ending to the old beloved camp as well as other BSA resident camps now gone.
Last edited:
I did know Spike! I believ he knew my father quite well, but I was very young the last time I saw Spike (or any of the old Russell crew). Actually I think the last time I saw him, Spike was taking a crew on the Adirondack Railroad north of Old Forge and paddling back - probably in the mid-80s some time!
Spike was/is quite an institution with BSA, and especially with Camp Russell. His home is only about a half mile away on Rte 28. As the camp's High Adventure Program Director, he rarely missed a meal in the dining hall at camp Russell. Spike is a retired school teacher, and a long time past president of the NYS Outdoor Guide's Association (NYSOGA.org). He has a special ability to recite at campfires from memory "The cremation of Sam McGee", with added loud emphasis at exciting critical points of the well known poem.
Spike also is one of the originators of the BSA high adventure trek leader guide (the "ADK Voyageurs") training program at BSA National Camping School. Way back in the 1970's, the NYSDEC was considering completely banning Boy Scout trips into the Adirondack backcountry because of real (and falsely) blamed responsibility for irresponsibly trashing the landscape while camping and hiking. No more cutting of spruce boughs to make your bed or cutting live trees to make and leave stick furniture, etc., as I remember from my own BSA Handbook training in the early 1960's. Since BSA was the most recognized outdoor based youth group, they took most of the full blame for every other camper’s environmental carelessness and neglect.
A group of concerned BSA adult leaders (especially including Spike), senior DEC Forest Rangers, and other well known outdoor specialists then created what became the Voyageur trek leader guide training program, 8 days of wilderness training in camping, backpacking, canoeing and leadership of guiding youth and their adult leaders. First held at the site of A.A. Lows estate at the upper dam on Lows Lake, then next taught at Camp Russell. It is now one of the formal training sections of the annual BSA National Camping School, taught on a rotating basis at one of the remaining regional BSA resident camp locations. Typically (but not exclusively) college students over age 18 wilderness outdoor lovers wishing to be hired for work guiding at a BSA summer camp, Voyageur guide leader graduates often take and easily pass the NYS licensed guide exam. Due to a quirk in NYS health Dept law, it requires training, but excludes youth camp guides from needing to be officially state licensed.
Spike was asked by the NYSDEC to write the licensed guide exam questions when the modern licensing requirement began. Of course, a high percentage of the closed book exam questions remain to this day are taken directly from the BSA official Fieldbook (as a separate pub from the more basic Handbook). It is a recommended study guide for all state licensed guides candidates. Graduate Voyageurs are presented with an iconic unique wool red toque (patterned after French Canadian Voyageurs of old), which is everywhere recognized as part of the official BSA uniform. Toque worn folded on their belt even in hot weather, the DEC easily recognizes them as formally properly trained guide leaders in the Adirondacks.
Much of the environmental principles of what was to eventually become the Leave No Trace organization (LNT.org) program came from the outdoor camping environmental care principles that began to be taught by Spike, the DEC, and other highly qualified permanent and guest instructors. I worked as an Air Force research engineer along with one of those early BSA primary instructors, who constantly pestered me to take the training course. For a few of those early years, I told him that I cannot afford over a week away from young family and other responsibilities until I finally found the time in 1990. The very next year I was invited to join the senior instructor team and remained so every year for the next 30 years. A set of us instructors were asked to write a generalized high adventure program guide training syllabus for the BSA, which was published and used with regional modifications in each BSA high adventure region of the USA.
As far as I know, Spike is still active with youth training. Shortly after Russell closed, I assisted a canoe outfitter friend (who was one of those BSA guide program original leaders) with a canoe training lesson session at another non-BSA youth camp not far from Russell. The camp director invited us to lunch in the dining hall. Guess who we saw there having his lunch, on break from teaching fishing lessons? it was Spike of course.
I tested paddled Dan Cooke's Blackwater at one of his evening paddle get togethers. I really liked the boat but in the limited time I was able to paddle it I did not find it to be much faster than my Bell Magic or strip built Barracuda. I was only measuring max speed because it was a small lake and I didn't have the time or space to record speed over a few miles. As I recall, at the time, I was maxing out all those hulls around 6.5mph and they were all within a couple tenths of each other.
At the time I was looking for something closer to a J boat (racing C1) but more user friendly (I had a hard time keeping them upright) and something that my dog could fit in. I thought it was going to be the Blackwater but after paddling it and not finding anything else close to what I wanted I ended up designing and building my own hull.
I was very happy with how it turned out. I could push it to 8mph in a sprint, close to what I could do with a J boat, and it offered a much more manageable resistance curve as it was heeled so there were no more unexpected dunkings. The dog fit well and it was my main training hull while I remained interested in racing. I still paddle it once in a while and even find it enjoyable enough to take on a lazy evening paddle around the lake.
I don't mean to run down the Blackwater as I know it's a fast boat and I have no doubt there are plenty of paddlers out there that could push it much faster than I could. But for me I just didn't find it to be a quantum leap in speed over other fast tripping hulls. It was very comfortable to paddle though and I'd love to have one if I didn't have to pay for it.
Alan
At the time I was looking for something closer to a J boat (racing C1) but more user friendly (I had a hard time keeping them upright) and something that my dog could fit in. I thought it was going to be the Blackwater but after paddling it and not finding anything else close to what I wanted I ended up designing and building my own hull.
I was very happy with how it turned out. I could push it to 8mph in a sprint, close to what I could do with a J boat, and it offered a much more manageable resistance curve as it was heeled so there were no more unexpected dunkings. The dog fit well and it was my main training hull while I remained interested in racing. I still paddle it once in a while and even find it enjoyable enough to take on a lazy evening paddle around the lake.
I don't mean to run down the Blackwater as I know it's a fast boat and I have no doubt there are plenty of paddlers out there that could push it much faster than I could. But for me I just didn't find it to be a quantum leap in speed over other fast tripping hulls. It was very comfortable to paddle though and I'd love to have one if I didn't have to pay for it.
Alan
My new Blackwater arrived the last week of November 2024, too late for a test paddle on unfrozen water in survivable weather. I am still waiting for my small Adirondack lake to fully open up and the air temperature to get above today's low 30's to give my new not previously wetted Blackwater a virgin trial run. Probably not possible for the rest of this week, given the latest forecast. Although I have briefly paddled a friend's BW for a very short run a year ago as the incentive for me to order one. I am anxious to get it out there.
