Swift with new "UV shield" and Heat cured Epoxy resin built boats new for 2024

[mitch7]

I understand that swifts boats were fantastic in every aspect exept durability. They now offer heat cured epoxy boats in 2024 as a 600 dollar upgrade. It should be money well spent considering the Strength of epoxy compared to vinyl ester.

The UV sheild is on all boats now, apparently thinner than traditional gel coats saving 2-4 pounds per boat, but what the hell is it ? Is it even a gel coat ? Being proprietary i guess we will never know.

My biggest concern is the UV resistance of the epoxy long term, but they seem pretty confindent in this new Shield

thoughts?

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Very impressive technology advances, or so Bill's impressive marketing skills make it seem. I'd like to know what the difference is between the "UV shield" outside coating and a clear gel coat is. Clear gel coat is already thinner than colored gel coat. And, of course, other manufacturers have used epoxy resin instead of vinylester for a long time.

 

[ppine]

Good idea.
UV light kills boats.

 

[stevet]

Have to say I am impressed withe the bending of the laminates. Hope I wouldn’t deform my hull like that

 

[Jim Dodd]

Bill is no Slouch ! Innovation galore ! Kudos to him.

Are there any dealers in the Mid west ?

Jim

 

[Jim Dodd]

Just finished watching Bill Swift's ,interview, of David Youst ( DY ).
I remember going to DY's seminar at one of Mid West Mtneering's Spring event, late 90's.
Inspirational. If I would have lived near by him, in those days ! I would have been on his door step, often.
At the time Bell had several of his deigns. The Fire series, and of course the Magic.

Getting back to the interview. I loved looking over his plug, as the camera panned by it. Looking at his stripping technic, was interesting as well.

He has built 200 strip plugs or canoes. That is one hell of a lot of sanding !!!

Jim

 

[tketcham]

I understand that swifts boats were fantastic in every aspect exept durability. They now offer heat cured epoxy boats in 2024 as a 600 dollar upgrade. It should be money well spent considering the Strength of epoxy compared to vinyl ester.

My biggest concern is the UV resistance of the epoxy long term, but they seem pretty confindent in this new Shield

thoughts?

Well, I just ordered a carbon fusion Prospector 13 with the epoxy finish upgrade. Between what I saw in the video and what the Swift dealer told me I decided to give it a try; it was $400 extra. I have a Northstar canoe in the standard carbon layup and it shows scratches easily, plus it's fairly easy to punch small stress cracks into the finish, sometimes with little soft spots resulting. I thought why not give Swift's finish a try for comparison.

This video provides some additional information about the new exterior coatings they're using.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'd like to know what the difference is between the "UV shield" outside coating and a clear gel coat is. Clear gel coat is already thinner than colored gel coat.

According to the video linked by @tketcham above and discussed below, the UV shield clear gel coat is a new a new and different formulation from traditional gel coat. Traditional gel coat is 15-30 mils thick whereas the UV shield is 5-8 mils thick, which saves weight. In addition, it allegedly has greater abrasion resistance than traditional clear gel coat.

This video provides some additional information about the new exterior coatings they're using.

This video is long, but a tour de force of techno-marketing that describes in detail all of Swift's fabrics, coatings and fancy layups, including impact and scratch testing.

At 1:18:33 they show and discuss an orange Dragonfly that they say is similar to the one they made for @adkjoe.

At 1:38:59 Bill says that Swift sells more Prospector 14's than all their other solo canoes combined.

 

[tketcham]

I'm not a chemical or structural engineer but Swift's Matt Steffler seems to know his stuff regarding composites and how to incorporate the appropriate laminations into canoe building. That same technology and skill results in some beautiful boats as well. (Not that other builder's canoes aren't beautiful; I love the look of my carbon/wood Northstar Firebird and Kevlar/wood Hemlock Kestrel.) Swift's latest buildups are innovative but haven't endured the test of time so it'll be interesting to see how things evolve. I found a Facebook post (video) of Bill Swift and Matt going over the lamination technology from 2021 but when I try to embed the post it says it's no longer available. (Link shown below.) The big news from 2021 was a urethane resin and flexible thin gel coat finish. Three years later and they're using yet another lamination technique. I wonder what other builders think of these adaptations?

www.facebook.com/SwiftCanoeandKayak/videos/2021-swift-canoe-technology/610773456377262/

 

[NikonF5user]

I wonder what other builders think of these adaptations?

I will tell you one thing - the number of times I have said to myself "I wish I could get a ___ built using Swift's construction" is impressive!

 

[tketcham]

I will tell you one thing - the number of times I have said to myself "I wish I could get a ___ built using Swift's construction" is impressive!

Good thing you don't say that out loud.

Minimizing weight while retaining sufficient durability is a major driver of innovations in construction techniques. The new materials and technique Swift is using is expected to reduce weight by quite a bit; one to four pounds depending on size and layup from what I gather. The Prospector 13 I ordered, with carbon/Kevlar gunnels, is currently listed at 24 lbs but could come in at 23 lbs or less. That's approaching Savage River's weights for a similarly sized solo. Who'd have thought, decades ago, that we'd have fairly durable canoes that weigh so little? As I get older I'm really appreciating the evolution.

 

[billconner]

Is any composite canoe really durable enough to be pulled up a bony creek for several miles? I'm just coming to the opinion that t-formax (or poly or aluminum) is really all that can take that kind of abuse, and you accept the weight penalty.

 

[Alan Gage]

Is any composite canoe really durable enough to be pulled up a bony creek for several miles? I'm just coming to the opinion that t-formax (or poly or aluminum) is really all that can take that kind of abuse, and you accept the weight penalty.

As with most thing you need to be aware of your paddling habits. Composite canoes can take a lot of abuse and are easy to repair but they still can't handle the abuse that most people will give to an old Royalex or aluminum canoe.

A comment I heard years ago from someone who uses his ultralight canoes a lot (personal paddling as well as guiding in the BWCA) is that it's easier to be gentle to a lightweight canoe. Meaning that because it's so light that you're more likely to pick it up and carry it over rocks rather than dragging it. I think there is a lot of truth to that.

I also think an ultralight canoe might do better than you think dragging it up a bony creek if it wasn't loaded. An empty 23 pound hull is going to float higher than a 60 pound hull and probably slide over rocks pretty easily. Scratches for sure but I bet not anything more serious.

Alan

 

[tketcham]

Is any composite canoe really durable enough to be pulled up a bony creek for several miles?

I used the term "sufficient durability" for a reason. Your example is a good one and I can say that yes, I've owned a composite tandem canoe that could be dragged up a bony creek without worrying too much about it. It was a (Western Canoeing & Kayaking) Clipper Prospector 17 in their Kevlar Duraflex layup. On one extended trip that canoe took a couple of good hits in a fast rapid and got dragged up a rocky portage take-out without much of anything to show for it. Now, did I at least try to minimize damage to the hull by being somewhat careful? You bet I did; that canoe wasn't cheap and I wanted it to last a while. But that canoe also weighed 68 lbs; tough, but heavy. I also own a Kevlar 18.5' Wenonah Odyssey (not the ultralight layup) that I took down a couple of bony stretches, and while I winced every time I heard that canoe hitting rocks, it came out with fairly minimal damage. I wouldn't have wanted that canoe to take the hits that the Duraflex canoe took but it wasn't as fragile as you might think. Again, I do try to minimize damage and it's paid off. I've also owned Royalex white water canoes and even then I treated them with care.

Point is (and I see Alan has a good reply) that you have to consider how the canoe was intended to be used and use it accordingly.

 

[billconner]

Appreciate the responses. I was thinking about NFCT - Spenser Creek cones to mind - and wanting to drag a solo with 75 pounds of gear five miles. I can pick a canoe and use it accordingly or I can decide how I want to use it and then go pick that canoe.

Just no sense any composite canoe can take abuse like t-formax et al.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Appreciate the responses. I was thinking about NFCT - Spenser Creek cones to mind - and wanting to drag a solo with 75 pounds of gear five miles. I can pick a canoe and use it accordingly or I can decide how I want to use it and then go pick that canoe.

Just no sense any composite canoe can take abuse like t-formax et al.

Your last sentence is inarguable. However, that doesn't mean that I would prefer a 65 lb. plastic solo canoe over a 25 lb. composite one for the NFCT in general or Spencer Stream in particular. It all depends on how many portages and lifts are on the entire route, which I assume are numerous. Aside from using different canoes for different sections of the NFCT, I'm sure I'd take my chances with the lighter canoe. I've found composites to be sufficiently tough for anything I've paddled.

Here is an account of going up Spencer Stream:

Day 6: Heaven and Hell: Up Spencer Stream

My morning started out with a hike across Spencer Stream on the snowmobile bridge and a trudge up the hill to where a line of porta-johns awaited the next hoardes of rafters. Not very pleasant, bu…

canoetales.wordpress.com

There are various scenarios depending on the level of Spencer. If it is almost or completely dry, no one would drag miles up the stream bed. You would have to walk around it somehow. If the water level is too high to paddle, pole or drag upstream, same problem. If there is enough water to float the canoe while dragging upstream, I don't think a composite canoe would necessarily incur any damage other than a lot of scratches. Maybe you would have to unload the canoe for some stretches to get around really rocky areas.

 

[billconner]

Link didn't work.
I've been on Spenser - in July - and it would really scratch up a composite. Pretty sure there are other stretches similar. I had been thinking Echo at 45#. There's a lot between 25# and 65#. Lightest t-formex I find is 42#.

 

[scratchypants]

Light canoes sure are fun to carry. I find that paddling them kind of sucks, though. Perhaps it's just poor technique on my part, but I don't like feeling the vessel slow so abruptly between strokes.

Edit: I'm sure Bill Swift is a salt-of-the-earth type of guy and has certainly done lots of good for the canoeing industry, but there is something about him that rubs me the wrong way. It sounds like he thinks his audience is slow.

 

[NikonF5user]

Link didn't work.
I've been on Spenser - in July - and it would really scratch up a composite. Pretty sure there are other stretches similar. I had been thinking Echo at 45#. There's a lot between 25# and 65#. Lightest t-formex I find is 42#.

There is a rumor floating around that the newest batch of T-Formex will be a bit thinner and lighter than what has been produced so far. If so, that could make for an Echo in the 40ish (maybe even upper 30s) range.

I personally however am curious about the Huron 15 - it's a Prospecteur 15 trimmed down a bit, making it lighter and a bit less susceptible to winds on open water. It seems possible that could end up around 50lbs, and with a spray deck I think would be an impressive tripper with a good combination of maneuverability, flat-water capability, and load capacity...

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Link didn't work.

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