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What "is" a Canoe?

Monarch is not a kayak. You do not wear it. It is waterborne living quarters.
This discussion is just cows chewing cud.
Nothing new.
Put a spray skirt on your canoe. Gee...its a kayak!! geez
Canoes are worldwide and I suspect where ever there are trees of any species that were a suitable size with peelable bark, that tree was used. Bark Canoes do not age well unless curated so none will be part of archaeological digs
 
The Monarch is Mad River Canoe’s version of the Loon, which was designed by Verlen Kruger and made by Sawyer Canoe to use in his “Ultimate Canoe Challenge”, which was a 2 1/2 year, 28,000 mile trip back in the early 1980’s. He reportedly paddled exclusively with a Single blade but his partner/son-in-law used a double sometimes. They defined their boats as canoes. BTW they were not designed for racing, but for very long distance tripping. They did sleep in them at times! Their trip was fascinating and worth googling.
 
yellowcanoe said:
it's a canoe because
f. You can nap in it.
Click to expand...
I've napped comfortably in my 12.5ft plastic kayak.....once I was rudely awoken from a nap by a gator. I stopped kayak-napping in gator territory after that. I'd probably feel safer napping in a stable tandem canoe.

As for the rest of these semantics, y'all keep hashing it out - I'll be out paddling.
 
yellowcanoe said:
Monarch is not a kayak. You do not wear it.
Click to expand...

I don't think the "wearing it" concept clearly differentiates decked canoes from kayaks, especially in the whitewater world.

For decades, there were C1's that looked like the Perception Gyramax I pictured in my OP and which I own. The cockpits were the same size as K1's, the hip fit the same, the spray skirts the same. Here, for example, is the famous Hahn C1, which was imported from Europe in the late 1950's and made in the US for 25 years.

Hahn C1.jpg

Here is part of Adam Pearsall's collection of C1's:

Adam Pearsall C1 collection.jpg


In fact, since there began to be so many more K1 hull designs than C1 designs from the 1990's to date, because of the increasing dominance of kayaks, C1 paddlers sometime began using the VERY SAME HULL as K1 paddlers. These C1's are called "kayak conversions", wherein the kayak seat and thigh pads removed and replaced by a low kneeling pedestal , knee pads and thigh straps. The functional difference is that the VERY SAME HULL is called a K1 when paddled seated with a double blade and a C1 when paddled kneeling with a single blade.

Our very own member, Mike McCrea, specializes in converting tandem seakayak hulls into seated solo watercraft he calls decked canoes. SAME HULL.

Mike McCrea kayak coversions.jpg
 
Glenn, it seems that the answer to your question, "What is a canoe?", is fairly simple...

Call them whatever you like because there appears to be an all-encompassing grey area. :unsure:
 
The 10 foot long open cockpit puts Monarch squarely in canoe country.. It is ridiculous to say that it is a kayak just cause you can cut off kayak decks to make a facsimile. The Monarch is a deep sea canoe with three seating positions vertically. I have kayaks too. They are much shallower;though some Sedas are tanks .The Monarch is designed for a single paddle. Come to my place and try a single paddle after you have busted your knuckles using a double. The coaming is not knuckle friendly and it is shoulder width which leads to ramming your hand every time if you hold your double blade correctly. I have the Monarch and an accoutrement of paddles.

You all need to study more paddle craft history..Kayaks were indeed orignally made to fit the hunter for safety.. Even today a good kayak shop will fit you.
 
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When I think of a “canoe”, this is what I see in my mind, a tandem, pointed at both ends, with an upsweep at both ends too. All the rest seem to have an adjective to clarify what kind of canoe they are. Some of these “canoes” mentioned above are a stretch in my world, but that’s ok, just keep scrolling.

.19CE9DD9-6CEB-4CB6-A097-BB290AF9CF5A.jpeg
 
When snowboarding started to become popular, they were banned from most downhill ski facilities because they didn't fit the common definition of how you slide downhill on snow. Of course definitions change, and today ski resorts everywhere embrace snowboarders. As for what constitutes a canoe, kayak, paddle board or evolution thereof, I can't help but think it's all just gliding across water.
 
When asked by a non paddler what is the difference between a canoe and a kayak, my simplistic standard answer is a canoe is a pickup truck and a kayak is a sports car. If asked by an accomplished paddler I would avoid any and all debate by answering "I don't know" and then go on with my life.
 
yellowcanoe said:
You all need to study more paddle craft history..Kayaks were indeed orignally made to fit the hunter for safety.. Even today a good kayak shop will fit you.
Click to expand...
Paddle craft history may provide context, but it doesn't necessarily preempt modern definitions. Canoes can be set up to fit the paddler, in some ways even more so than many sea kayaks. You'd have a tough time convincing me that you aren't wearing an open white water canoe outfitted with a pedestal, thigh straps, knee blocks, and foot braces. Does that make it a kayak because it's fitted to the paddler? Not really. The definitions of kayak and canoe, while having some common notions, cannot be narrowly pinned down with simple qualifiers because there are so many hybrid designs with functional overlaps. Maybe a new, more inclusive term is in order? (New topic, new post?) 😐
 
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