What have you left behind?

[Odyssey]

Good point Alan, but I'm not a hiker dipping into a high mountain babbling brook. The large northern lakes I paddle on and swim in are teeming with life... of the bacterial kind as well. I find it hard to believe that the few drops of phosphate free soap I use can only be tackled by bacteria in arid soils. I suspect the manufacturers are concerned with hordes of hikers lathering up and rinsing down in small streams and pools, fully believing themselves to be eco-correct. That concern is well founded, and I won't argue against it. But, like I say, when I climb out of the lake (sort of ) clean and fully refreshed, I don't smell of Dove, Irish Spring or Head & Shoulders ( things like that don't come tripping with us). Instead I smell of...the lake. And that's fine with me. As far as dilution goes, yes, what minuscule amount of "grey water" I produce by jumping in the lake smelling of smoke and sweat, will be far outweighed by the amounts of lake water organic poop and pee soup produced by the local critters. And that's fine with me too.

ps I often swim/bathe soapless. Those "miracle cloths" I find on sale at H Depot make great wash/dry cloths.

 

[yellowcanoe]

A little cross reference here to help dispel that "urban myth". ( which might not be so much a myth in concentrated use lakes where you have to compete for campsites)

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums.../food-and-meals/16437-bacon-in-the-boat/page4

One of the interesting things about canoe forums is the meeting with paddlers in other areas. Often everyone is right.. for their area.

 

[Odyssey]

Yes YC, I agree. I appreciate and respect Alan's POV and link. Thank you Alan. What I like about this forum is the sharing of ideas and life histories. I'm not necessarily right, and am not trying to be. I'm just sharing my little world, right or wrong. I'll give my backcountry habits some more thought. To be honest though, taking a lakeside dip for me is less about the bath, and more about the wild swimming experience.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-10852394

 

[Guest]

Whatever the effects may be, I find it easier to just leave the soap at home and embrace my BO.

After about 5 days I'm starting to wake up to my own stench, but really it is my clothes that retain the smell.

 

[ppine]

A collapsible bucket is worth having on a longer canoe. It is handy for bathing and doing laundry.

I used to do a lot of water quality sampling and stream gauging, sometimes in pristine waters like the Rockies at 11,000 feet and SE Alaska. It makes me cringe to hear people think that washing with soap in live water is acceptable.

Greatest bath of all time was in the Absoroka Mountains of NW Wyoming on a horse pack trip. A friend and I took our wives for a week into some remote country near Yellowstone, and at one time we were 50 miles from the nearest dirt road in the land of moose and grizzlies. Around the fifth day I was gazing at a stand of small lodgepole pine snags across the meadow from camp. I got the brilliant idea to build a sweat lodge using those poles and the tarps off the pack horses. Working with horses in warm weather is hot dirty work. We heated up some river rocks in a fire outside the tent and rolled them with sticks under the tarps. We got rid of our clothing and crawled inside. It was hot and steamy in the little tent and we put wildflowers on the rocks along with some creek water. After around 25 minutes we headed for the little creek outside the door. It was one of those grand days of my life.

 

[Guest]

A collapsible bucket is worth having on a longer canoe. It is handy for bathing and doing laundry.

Absolutely. Also for dishes, as a settling bucket for silty water and for dousing a campfire to muddy ashes dead out before leaving camp.

I used to do a lot of water quality sampling and stream gauging, sometimes in pristine waters like the Rockies at 11,000 feet and SE Alaska. It makes me cringe to hear people think that washing with soap in live water is acceptable.

I will bath in a lake or river using biodegradable soap on occasion, but only in the right circumstance, those being a BIG lake or an already less then pristine river. In a similar bathing discussion I once had a biologist tripper scold me severely for suggesting that my bathing suds would have any possibly detrimental effect on water quality.

That may be true in terms of overall water quality, at least if not camped on some wee pond or puddle. But on smaller lakes and ponds, especially those with multiple sites, I have another reason for not soaping up in the lake. I’ve had campers happily soaping up across smaller Adirondack lakes upwind of my site and found a sudsy edge blown across the lake to ring my site. Not something I really need to see in otherwise clean, clear water.

If I have any qualms about bathing in the lake I just jump in for a swim, fill the bucket when I get out and lather up/rinse away from the water (and camp). Not that hard.

Greatest bath of all time was in the Absoroka Mountains of NW Wyoming on a horse pack trip

Greatest bath was in the North Fork of the Shoshone. I was on a backpacking trip with a couple of friends. We had been out a while and were sleeping three to a two-man tent (don’t ask). We were offensively stinky, especially in close quarters.

We striped down and waded out into the broad but knee-deep Shoshone. Wet down, lather up and rinse by falling over and grabbing a rock, letting the current rush past. Bracingly cold water, with some shrinkage.

There we were, a hundred feet from shore in the middle of the Shoshone, buck naked and goose pimpled in the knee deep freezing water, when a horse packing party came along the trail beside us. A horse packing party of a guide, mom and dad, and a couple of teenage daughters.

There really wasn’t anything for it but to smile and wave hello.

BTW – That was in 1976. I probably wouldn’t bath in the Shoshone today. Not just for water quality, trout fishermen downstream enduring my suds or indecent exposure liability, but also because that water is dang cold and I’d rather fill a 5 gallon collapsible bucket, set it in the sun for a few hours to warm up and pour it over my head with the bailer.

To each their own, but if you are upwind of me on some small Adirondack lake please realize that I have found your suds.

 

[ppine]

Mike,
We followed the N Fork of the Shoshone for many miles. It was the trip with the moose and calf walking thru camp. I took a nap next to the river and a badger walked across the foot of my sleeping bag when I was in it. I remember drinking tequila one night standing in the river with some Wyo friends talking about how our grandfathers had hunted wolves for bounty. That was during the Yelllowstone fires in 1988 right around the time of wolf re-introduction by the US Fish and Wildlife Service in the Park.

 

[Guest]

I got to Rock Pond off LTL solo and realized I had: 1) No way to start a fire; and 2) No AA batteries for my only light source. I was not all that far from the put in, just a short carry, and a couple hours paddle, but it was annoying, to say the least, and late in the day, so I elected to stay put.

The next day, I asked some fellows on the island if they had spares and what would they want for them if so. Ended up trading all my TP for a bic lighter and two marginal AAs, and stayed with those fellows for a great dinner and fun night on the island.

TP is way down the list of my priorities, especially if it is warm enough for a quick dip or two (no soap in the lake of any kind ever) in the lake at midday. Moose maple leaves work well enough. I now wonder if it is OK to put used leaves down the privy.

Taught me in a tangible way the value of fire and light. Nowadays, I plan better, and am in the habit of taking a separate, to-be-used-only-in-real-need emergency survival kit, which includes a tiny flashlight and multiple fire starters.

 

[Guest]

I now wonder if it is OK to put used leaves down the privy.

I hope you are being facetious... leaves would be better than TP, they generally degrade quicker.

I don't want to cause a big stink (figuratively and literally) but a pit privy can digest anything that is biodegradable in a compost pile. That doesn't mean you should put twigs and orange peels in there though. Twigs take a long time to break down and orange peels might attract critters (although most critters don't like human urine by my observations).

Anyway, I'm pretty much sure the signs are there because people would dump plastic bags of trash in the privies. That stuff won't go away and eventually will just fill the pit. The only option is to pull it out, or cover it over and make a new pit.... essentially starting a mini landfill. I'm guessing not many rangers or volunteers were pulling plastic out of the pits... so I bet it gets covered over.

Anyway I think the general etiquette for the backcountry is if it isn't something found in the environment, don't leave it or dump it out there, TP and some minor food waste being the exception i.e. I generally don't leave apple cores or orange peels out in the forest because they aren't native. And TP should only be buried where it can decompose - in a situation where the soil doesn't allow that, use a rock or pack it out.

 

[ppine]

In the summer in Canada or Alaska not having a light is no big deal. Get everything done before dark. Not having a way to start a fire is more troubling. Sometimes the batteries can be used, along with a hundred other ways.

 

[oldie moldy]

I try to remember to reverse the batteries when I'm placing the flashlight in pack or box, otherwise the flashlight gremlin will have left fingerprints on the switch.
Sprinkled several of those small fire-steel, sparky things in different parts of my kit. Only problem I've found using them was when at first I tried to use the striker like you would whittle with a knife. Much better to jerk the rod out from under the striker.
Watch those sparks though, they are so hot they will weld themselves into a glass surface or steel.

Rob

 

[ppine]

Moldy,
I like to put bic lighters and the strikers in various places in the outfit. I have some match safes given to me by my great uncle. One of them is brass from the 30s and it has been carried so much that the checkering on the side made to strike a match on is almost worn smooth. I think of my uncle every time I carry it.

I recently bought a new life jacket after many years. It has pockets which is a wonderful innovation. In goes the match safe, whistle and the car keys. It even has hand warmer pockets.