Thoughts about this paddle design?

[Odyssey]

Jonas, I also trip with a Sugar Island (fatty) type and animal tail (skinny) type. I like how the "fatty" moves my tandem partner and me along with power and efficiency. I love how the "skinny" feels when I just want to slow down and feel the moment.
Keep carving and sharing your projects Jonas. It's a delight to see your work.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Every time yellowcanoe speaks I learn something. Funny how that happens.

I'm just the little kid passing on what my teachers told me. I didn't do any original research.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Hmm....
I find that the long skinny paddle gives me more reach and leverage for turning moves when soloing a tandem. Between that and a pole, I have deep and shallow covered. Doesn't do anything for me in the solo canoe though.

I like artistry that works. It doesn't have to add anything functional if it doesn't impede. There is a long tradition of that in both paddling and woodworking. Nice work Jonas. Let us know how it feels on the water.

 

[Canotrouge]

Steve, you nailed it!! In the end to each his own, and there is certainly places for each. Other than pure ww in my MillBrook Shacho, or in my Dagger Caption, I will not use my ww paddle(Werner Bandit carbon), I will use the paddle shown higher up on this thread. even soloing class 3 in my 16 footer tripping canoe... Just to make a point!!

 

[yellowcanoe]

of course you made your point.. I teach Canadian Style sometimes in huge canoes (Old Town Tripper XL being my big wipeout boat) and the skinny blade starts the boat moving and the sheer mass of 18-20 feet (stems do count) slowly ( there is a lag) gets the boat going.. From there its no big deal to get the boat spinning to vomitus speed.

But skinny paddles dont work well for turning a Nomad or WildFire or Peregrine.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

We are mixing up two different subjects: what kind of paddle is objectively the most efficient for a particular purpose, and what kind of paddles we subjectively like. Of course paddlers can and do paddle with whatever they like or prefer, no matter whether their preference is rational or irrational to others.

We are also mixing up aesthetics with function. They are not necessarily the same or necessarily different. I love many paddles aesthetically but don't enjoy them functionally.

Some paddlers may like to paddle with a long stick or a shovel -- and have. Frankly, if you're a skilled and experienced single blader you can paddle with anything. And if you're not, no paddle is going to make a big difference.

I'm sticking with a focus on efficiency of function. In that context:

Those paddles you mentioned are all competition paddles. if I was competing I'd chose one too. But there is a huge difference between paddling at a leisure and paddling to win.

I disagree. With the exception of the Olympic sprint paddles, all the other paddles I mentioned are excellent cruising and leisure paddles. If a paddle is the most efficient at high speeds or intense situations or sharp turns, it will also be the most efficient at lower speeds or less intense situations or more gradual turns. Why wouldn't it be? The physics is the same. Recreational paddlers and trippers commonly use paddles with Sugar Island, Honey Island and squat racing tulip shapes. People who prefer animal tails or quills are preferring them on grounds other than comparative efficiency.

I find that the long skinny paddle gives me more reach and leverage for turning moves when soloing a tandem.

Again, I'm not quibbling with anyone's subjective preferences. But I don't understand the objective logic in the quoted assertion. Wouldn't a long fat paddle give as much reach and more leverage than a long skinny paddle?

And what percentage of one's strokes on a trip are turning moves? 0.01%?

In my experience, which I like to think is at least partially objective, I can both cruise more efficiently and turn more easily with a ZRE Power Surge blade than a skinny animal tail blade. And, I believe, so would any animal tail paddler. But the wooden animal tail lover won't change because that's what he "likes", which can't be argued and is not my topic.

 

[Canotrouge]

I don't think we should talk kind or fat here, we should talk surface area. If a long skinny blade has the same surface area than a short fat one, then the result should be the same( as long as the entire blade is below the water surface during the entire stroke, and that is the problem of 90% of the paddling community)

 

[Philtrum]

And what percentage of one's strokes on a trip are turning moves? 0.01%?

I haven't gathered any statistics, but I'd say nearly all my strokes involve some element of turning. I mostly paddle solo, and my standard stroke is a shallow "C" which is a double turning stroke (combination draw and pry). That's true whether I'm using a straight or bent shaft.

Others' mileage may vary.

 

[Philtrum]

I don't think we should talk kind or fat here, we should talk surface area. If a long skinny blade has the same surface area than a short fat one, then the result should be the same( as long as the entire blade is below the water surface during the entire stroke, and that is the problem of 90% of the paddling community)

Yes! It makes a difference where the blade's center of effort is located, but otherwise this is true. Other than that, the primary differences among paddles - assuming equal blade area - have to do with handling.

 

[memaquay]

Well, not to be contrary, or totally sidetrack the thread, but I have never bought that surface area argument. Earlier I referenced bicycles, mostly because bicycle racing was one of my obsessions before canoeing. I could have a big rim with a skinny tire, or a small rim with a fatter tire, both having the same amount of surface rubber touching the ground, but the skinny tire will go faster with less effort. Then again, I was a poor student of physics, so I leave those types of debates to the smart people.

 

[oldie moldy]

Well Boys, You all are smarter than me and probably paddle a bunch more and I doubt if I could ever brain-power it out just what makes the best paddle for some condition.
But give me two or three paddles and my canoe and within ten minutes I can for sure tell you if one is a stinker and after thirty minutes I know the pick of the litter (for me). And probably I haven't a substantive though the whole time.
But my body and the paddle have been having a back and forth conversation and it's just as well my brains stay out of it.

That's what I think anyways.....

rob

 

[Philtrum]

Well, not to be contrary, or totally sidetrack the thread, but I have never bought that surface area argument. Earlier I referenced bicycles, mostly because bicycle racing was one of my obsessions before canoeing. I could have a big rim with a skinny tire, or a small rim with a fatter tire, both having the same amount of surface rubber touching the ground, but the skinny tire will go faster with less effort. Then again, I was a poor student of physics, so I leave those types of debates to the smart people.

I hesitate to comment, but a bike tire's surface area is just one of several relevant variables. Consider also the hardness or softness of the rubber, the amount of tread, the pressure, and the wheel diameter. That said, I've ridden 32C slicks for over 20 years because they're incredibly fast.

A much better analogue to paddle area is sail area on sailboats. The key variables are overall size (sq.ft.), shape (tall, high-aspect vs short, low-aspect), and cross-section depth and shape. I've already mentioned foils so I'll leave the comparisons at this.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I agree with Philtrum that the sail is a better analogy than the wheel. But it's still not a real good one. I do believe surface area does make a difference though, and so does leverage. Ever watch Harry Rock paddle deep water with a pole?

Glenn - I only mentioned a long "skinny" blade because that's the only animal tail I have. If I were to progress to more serious whitewater than what I am doing, I would likely be using something else. Turns.......most of the rivers around here require considerably more turning than .01%, because of all the meandering. Even the mighty Snake requires almost constant turning strokes just to go straight, where it's a continuous series of boils and eddies.

 

[Canotrouge]

I think the difference here reside in the fact that lots of people travel on lakes and seldom on rivers. Up Here it is the opposite, spend 80-90% of my paddling on moving water. And like Steve, we spend a lot of time just doing that turning. Boils, eddies, sweepers, strainers, bolders, beavers, mooses etc etc...

 

[Jonas Sjöblom]

Well back on topic. I took it's virginity yesterday. Had a wonderful warm day with sun and no wind at all.
Already my first impression when I put it in the water was that I'm really gonna like this paddle. I tried the different grips and it seemed to me that they were more comfortable the higher I sat in the canoe. Meaning they worked better with the arms apart more. It was more comfortable than a normal flat northwoods grip and especially the C-strokes went much easier with the small tilt in the wrist.
The blade had good drag. It felt like paddling a beaver tail. The narrow part made the blade a little too flexible in that area so I believe that's where it might possibly crack one day.

Overall I'm very pleased and it worked as I had hoped. I don't think I'll use this blade type on another paddle made for usage but I'll definitely use the grip as inspiration for future projects.

 

[Alan Gage]

That's great news Jonas. Happy to hear the grip worked out as you'd hoped and congratulations for thinking outside the box and getting something useable.

Alan