Thinking of making a carbon fiber paddle...

[Steve in Idaho]

....or maybe I should say, " assembling one".

I'm thinking about my winter projects, and the idea hit me that since I'm not likely to find a straight carbon paddle on the used market (all but one of my paddles were bought used) maybe I can make one. I read through a thread here about doing that, and decided I'm not up to doing it that way. Since I recently became aware of affordable carbon fiber tubing, another idea came to mind. I could carve a grip from a lightweight wood, match that to purchased tube, and all I would have to produce from carbon cloth would be the blade.

Sound feasible?

How would you go about fashioning that blade so that it could be plugged into the shaft with a snug fit and epoxy? I'm thinking of a Sugar Island style blade, slightly foil shaped but thin. Something that would be suitable as a mild river and meandering stream paddle to go with the Wildfire. I'd want it to be perfectly symmetrical.

Also, what wall thickness should I go with on the tubing? 1mm? 2mm? I should've measured the Zav when I had the grip off to shorten it.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Too bad @Alasgun hasn't been around for a while. He's likely our most experienced maker of carbon fiber paddles.

Making a Composite/Carbon Paddle

[Admin Note: This is a thread I've split off from Alasgun's "Evolution of an Alaskan DipShip" thread so that his postings and pictures of how he is building a composite/carbon paddle can be centralized in a separate thread. I will first populate it with the paddle-related posts from that other...

www.canoetripping.net

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Too bad @Alasgun hasn't been around for a while. He's likely our most experienced maker of carbon fiber paddles.

Making a Composite/Carbon Paddle

[Admin Note: This is a thread I've split off from Alasgun's "Evolution of an Alaskan DipShip" thread so that his postings and pictures of how he is building a composite/carbon paddle can be centralized in a separate thread. I will first populate it with the paddle-related posts from that other...

www.canoetripping.net

Yes, that's the thread I was reading and I was actually hoping he would chime in. Although I don't have the setup to do it the way he showed, maybe he's experimented with a different approach. I'm sure he'd be helpful either way.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

My latest idea is to carve a single side mold from balsa or basswood and make each face of the blade separately, then sandwich them together before attaching to the shaft.

 

[Gamma1214]

...I was actually hoping he would chime in.

He hasn't stopped in since April but it's a short season up there and he may be back in the winter. You can always send a personal message (envelope in the upper right of your screen). That will probably generate an email notification to his home email.

Whatever you decide, post your process and let us know how it comes out.

 

[Nick Pending]

My latest idea is to carve a single side mold from balsa or basswood and make each face of the blade separately, then sandwich them together before attaching to the shaft.

Why not mold the blade right onto the shaft rather than make a blade then glue it to (into?) a shaft? I'd think it would be stronger this way, though maybe not significantly so? Maybe lighter, too, though again maybe not significantly so? A lot of possible construction variables for sure.

 

[memaquay]

I have only bought two paddle for myself in my life, I made all the rest. The last one I bought is the one I use the most now, I'm pretty sure I couldn't make it, but you probably have a better skill set than my usual wood butchery style.

Journey Carbon 1 Piece Straight Shaft

Experience performance and comfort with the Journey Carbon. A traditional canoe paddle, with design features like a straight buoyant blade and a traditional symmetrical palm grip. FEATURES The volume of a buoyant designed carbon blade creates an exceedingly light feel. This POPS the blade from...

wernerpaddles.com

 

[Steve in Idaho]

He hasn't stopped in since April but it's a short season up there and he may be back in the winter. You can always send a personal message (envelope in the upper right of your screen). That will probably generate an email notification to his home email.

Whatever you decide, post your process and let us know how it comes out.

I'm not likely to get started on it until the snow flies. But I'll post it here for sure. Might be a "how not to" or "why not to" thread.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Why not mold the blade right onto the shaft rather than make a blade then glue it to (into?) a shaft? I'd think it would be stronger this way, though maybe not significantly so? Maybe lighter, too, though again maybe not significantly so? A lot of possible construction variables for sure.

It's a good question. I haven't ruled it out. But I'd like to be able to eliminate any ridge at the paddle/shaft interface without having to feather it if possible. If I can get tubing with OD to match the ID of the main shaft, that might work.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

I have only bought two paddle for myself in my life, I made all the rest. The last one I bought is the one I use the most now, I'm pretty sure I couldn't make it, but you probably have a better skill set than my usual wood butchery style.

Journey Carbon 1 Piece Straight Shaft

Experience performance and comfort with the Journey Carbon. A traditional canoe paddle, with design features like a straight buoyant blade and a traditional symmetrical palm grip. FEATURES The volume of a buoyant designed carbon blade creates an exceedingly light feel. This POPS the blade from...

wernerpaddles.com

Ha! I've seen your work. Nice stuff.

The Journey is kinda what I have in mind and I'm not against buying it, but I thought I'd try this first...... unless someone puts one up for sale used.

Yeah, I know. If it takes more than one attempt, I could end up spending just as much.

 

[Alan Gage]

If I'm not mistaken ZRE paddle blades are shaped foam covered with carbon. They definitely are not solid carbon. If you regularly paddle over shallow sand and gravel the tip will wear away. Once it wears away to a certain point the edge will start to open up.

I think you'll need a core of some kind inside the blade. If you have balsa readily available I'd start with that and then cover it with either fiberglass or carbon as a test. I'd shape the top of the blade so it slides into the shaft and then wrap the joint with carbon or fiberglass. I think balsa would be a nice way to test the process and it should have enough rigidity to maintain its shape while laminating.

Ideally, for weight, the final blade would be high density foam. You can buy this in thicknesses from 1/8" and thicker. This would be shaped as needed and then laminated. You could add fiberglass or dynel at the tip to help with abrasion. The laminate would run well past the edge of the foam and then, after it's cured, you would trim it back.

The problem becomes how do you keep the foam in exactly the right shape while laminating? Preferably you would weight the blade after lamination for compression but that would probably change the shape unless you had a mold to place it in.

You could laminate without adding weight or compression and it would probably be ok.

I've thought about making carbon paddles a few times but since I already had a few I didn't pursue it because I couldn't think of a good way to do it that would match or better what I already had.

Alan

 

[Steve in Idaho]

If I'm not mistaken ZRE paddle blades are shaped foam covered with carbon. They definitely are not solid carbon. If you regularly paddle over shallow sand and gravel the tip will wear away. Once it wears away to a certain point the edge will start to open up.

Yes, their website states that the blades have a foam core. I wouldn't be grinding this or any other carbon blade into sand or rock very much.

I think you'll need a core of some kind inside the blade. If you have balsa readily available I'd start with that and then cover it with either fiberglass or carbon as a test. I'd shape the top of the blade so it slides into the shaft and then wrap the joint with carbon or fiberglass. I think balsa would be a nice way to test the process and it should have enough rigidity to maintain its shape while laminating.

I've been thinking along the same lines. Balsa is easy to get, in 1/8" sheets. I haven't found thicker stock of much length yet, but haven't looked much. I suppose I could laminate and build it up if I can keep the glue volume low. I wonder what the weight difference would be over foam core.

Ideally, for weight, the final blade would be high density foam. You can buy this in thicknesses from 1/8" and thicker. This would be shaped as needed and then laminated. You could add fiberglass or dynel at the tip to help with abrasion. The laminate would run well past the edge of the foam and then, after it's cured, you would trim it back.

That sounds like a plan. .

The problem becomes how do you keep the foam in exactly the right shape while laminating? Preferably you would weight the blade after lamination for compression but that would probably change the shape unless you had a mold to place it in.

I wonder if laminating one 1/8" layer of balsa in the middle would stiffen up the foam laminate enough to keep it straight. That would be a good starting experiment.

You could laminate without adding weight or compression and it would probably be ok.

I've thought about making carbon paddles a few times but since I already had a few I didn't pursue it because I couldn't think of a good way to do it that would match or better what I already had.

Alan

I also noticed that ZRE mentions using carbon and glass. I wish I knew if they do a glass layer first, and for how much of the blade. I'm pretty sure they don't carry it out to the edge, but I'm not against that. I also wonder what weight of fabric I should use and how many layers.

I could just experiment and then test to failure.....like SpaceX.

 

[Alan Gage]

I also wonder what weight of fabric I should use and how many layers.

You could measure the thickness of a ZRE paddle at the edge where there is no foam. You know there at least 2 layers there (I suspect that's all there is). Then compare that thickness to the thickness of dry carbon cloth. It would be a starting point.

It would make sense to me that if ZRE added fiberglass it would be at the edge where they will wear the most. I think I've worn the tips off of three ZRE paddles. One I wrapped the worn edge with fiberglass and the other two with dynel. Looks awful but works great.

Alan