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The Tangerine Dream arrived early! (New Hemlock SRT)
- Thread starter adkjoe
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IMO the boat is not repairable. The State of NH and Justin are supposedly going to work to unpin it but have not heard from NH
Some key points in the video. First, there is a spooky premonition of the pin & wrap with a shot of a plastic canoe wrapped around a tree trunk at 1:12, an accident that must have happened at high water when the current was running through the bank trees. It's very, very dangerous to paddle in a river that's flooding over the banks. Second, Joe's wrap sequence begins at 12:30. Third, Justin reads Joe's account of the pin/wrap at 21:50.
That's a real shame, Joe, and you were very fortunate to be able to extricate your legs from under the seat as the hull squashed against it.
A similar thing happened to me, even as a class 4 rated whitewater paddler, on a class not-even-1 section of the Farmington River in the late 80s. I was demonstrating to some beginners how to attain upstream above a large solitary rock, go over the top of it, and come down the other side to eddy behind it. I was in my John Berry Millbrook Kevlar ME. I didn't notice there was a subsurface rock right above the large rock, and it flipped my canoe upstream, pinning it against the large rock in a fairly mild current. Nevertheless, the canoe began to collapse, pinning my legs under the low kneeling thwart that was epoxied to the hull as the hull began to collapse. My head began to sink close to the water. The spectators thought I was putting on some sort of demonstration, but I was in real danger of drowning in nothingburger water.
What saved me was that I was that I was literally able to rip the kneeling thwart off of the hull, probably helped by the aged epoxy. Once freed, I was able to pull my boat up and off the rock before it actually wrapped and got damaged.
After that, I vowed never to paddle whitewater again other than on a saddle or pedestal seat. I maintained that vow until about 12 years ago when I once paddled some very familiar class 2 rapids on my local Housatonic River with @mattm in my (gulp!) Hemlock SRT.
I would agree that Joe's SRT is not repairable.
I’m not an engineer but I have spent plenty of time thinking about how to build a break-away or swing-away seat to avoid entrapment when kneeling. I want to trip on class II rivers but I don’t want to put a pedestal in my SRT. Does anything like this exist already? I’m not talking about an adjustable seat, but one that breaks free when trying to exit in an emergency, a bit like ski bindings or bicycle clips.
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Art D- that is a great concept. What have you thought of so far? I wonder if some kind of hinge could be built into the seat frame which would be rigid when weight is applied from above, but which would allow it to rotate up when pressure from the paddler's lower legs or feet is applied from below. I agree with you that I wouldn't want to trip using a pedestal. I have one in my ME and it is ok for an hour or two but isn't practical to sit on to give the ankles/knees a break. The video and ADKJoe's and Glen's accounts were very informative. I hadn't considered having to extract my feet when the floor of the canoe was folding up from a wrap. I guess the 8-10" of foot clearance under the seat is quickly reduced to 3-4".
Yes, that's exactly what can happen if you are kneeling with your calves, ankles and feet under the seat.
I've thought about exactly the same thing since my near entrapment in the late 80s.
A hinged seat might work.
Or some type of seat where the four arms of the seat were friction fitted into some sort of hull mounted slots, and which could be kicked up and out vertically in the event of entrapment. I have no wood skills to make such a seat, but I can visualize it, and it probably wouldn't be hard to make for someone with the skills.
Or one that is hung OVER the gunwales, such as the third one shown in this video:
Swift's detachable system would be perfect for mitigating entrapment risk. The pods are a bit of a barrier, but nothing says you couldn't install rails or whatnot for mounting.
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Sorry about your boat Joe. Looking at that water I would have thought a wrap would have been unlikely too. My thoughts are, if you had a seat hight that would have enabled you to quickly get your feet out you possibly could have jumped out and saved the day. Even if you didn't get out in time to save the boat you probably could have gotten your feet out and not become entrapped. What are your thoughts on this?
I had a friend get pinned but not wrapped, with his bow facing upstream. The water came in the boat and pushed his torso towards the water that was filling his boat. One of us had to hold his head out of the water while the other one successfully worked to free his legs. If his seats were lower it may have gone differently.
I had a friend get pinned but not wrapped, with his bow facing upstream. The water came in the boat and pushed his torso towards the water that was filling his boat. One of us had to hold his head out of the water while the other one successfully worked to free his legs. If his seats were lower it may have gone differently.
I haven't seen the Swift seats in person, but don't they involve inserting/removing pins to attach/detach the seat? If they do, that might require too much dexterity and time when you are fighting for your life to prevent drowning and perhaps also trying to hold onto your paddle. The solution needs to be as pedestal-like as possible: You tip over, you fall free from the canoe with minimal required gyrations.
Such a beautiful SRT; I'm sorry for your loss. At least you are still around to replace the canoe! I have been pinned a few times in decked boats (C1 and kayaks, somehow I've managed to avoid that in open canoes so far) and fortunately never fully wrapped a boat, but reflections on the possible outcomes of those accidents have stayed with me. Messing about in moving water does have it's risks, but I believe that most of the folk on this forum would agree that the rewards are worth those risks.
Good luck on finding your next canoe (another SRT?) and getting back on the water soon!
Good luck on finding your next canoe (another SRT?) and getting back on the water soon!
@stripperguy used some high test velcro to attach his bucket seat to the pedestal. I believe he said it held well enough to lift the canoe by using the seat but I'm sure it could be kicked loose easily.
Alan
Alan
It's a friction lock in the front and a magnet in the back. You could also make it just a grommet and post on the front side, which would make it pop off with no hands and very little effort.
Seat demo starts at 1:40
That reminds me that we had a very long thread and experimentation by @Mike McCrea about an idea of mine for a removable seat using 3M Dual Lock, which is what @stripperguy used. My idea was to drop a regular four-arm seat onto sliding seat-type rails using a patch of Dual Lock on the end of each seat arm. Such a seat could be easily lifted (or kicked) off for removal, or could be easily lifted off for a different placement along the slider rail. Mike tested different types of Dual Lock for strength including a roll I bought and sent him.
3M Dual Lock—Q's & A's and Tests for Canoe Uses
Stripperguy, I recall that you attach a movable solo bucket seat to composite floor rails using 3M Dual Lock. I'm thinking of using it for a movable wooden solo seat on wooden rails -- strips of it on the "slider" rails and a patch of it on each of the four corners of the seat rails. This would...
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Wow, that's really sad, Joe. But glad you got out okay. That was a beautiful canoe.
Like Glenn, I've determined to paddle class 2 and up while kneeling only with a saddle for this very reason. But the sad fact is that it can happen even on class 1. Very scary to think about.
Like Glenn, I've determined to paddle class 2 and up while kneeling only with a saddle for this very reason. But the sad fact is that it can happen even on class 1. Very scary to think about.
Thank you! It stings but boats can be replaced, however not sure at this point if I'll replace it.
Just catching up… sorry for the loss of your boat but glad you are ok.
Jim
Jim
