Starting From Scratch: My Solo Canoe Shortlist

[gumpus]

I agree that you want a gelcoat so you can scuff it up without worries. I do not recommend Northwind solo. I think the Hemlock Peregrine or Kestrel would be great for you, I have owned both and I'd lean towards Peregrine for you although Kestrel is even hotter. Osprey is most playful and best river boat but it's a bit hard to keep straight in a quartering tailwind...but I love my Osprey and will never sell it and it's a blast on lakes and ponds. I would recommend a regular canoe that you sit in so you can get into the canoe experience, use nice light paddles, and see more turtles while paddling. Never paddled a Trillium or Kee 14 but if you like you can try my Yellowstone solo which is shorter with more rocker like those two.

 

[Cruiser]

Hi Jim,

I have taken to building my canoes at this point and the first one was a Freedom Solo (16'3") which for me is just the right balance of performance and fun. A friend was looking at a new boat and was wavering between the Freedom and a Key, after a trip of swapping his rental and my Freedom, he finally asked me to build him a freedom .... he said they were close, but that he preferred the Freedom. I think part of that decision was the wood boat aspect, so the Key impressed him overall.

I think the reason the pack is so quick is that the bottom seating allows it to be quite narrow for the length and that translates to performance, a drawback may be getting in an out, as having the seat on the bottom gives little leverage .... once in, it is comfy, but I would pay attention when you test it. If you can't hoist yourself easily out during the test, then it won't be any easier in the field.

I think taking a few boats out to see how they "feel" is the smartest option for you at this point, once you get that "this feels good" reaction, you know the style and size that suits you. It may be a good idea to take a few sand bags, as ballast, when you go test driving ..... most boats handle very differently with a load and it is important you know how it handles in both conditions (loaded and unloaded) as both configurations will be used while tripping.


Brian

 

[yellowcanoe]

I just want to point out the factor in "slicker"
It's the lack of scratches that count. Soon enough you will have tripping scratches and that elusive glide will be gone .
You could hang the boat from your living room ceiling and admire it but that's no fun

 

[gumpus]

I think it's getting down to personal tastes. Which is slicker? Nothing jumps like a Flashfire on the first stroke. Colden makes beautiful boats and there's a used Colden Flash in Kentucky. I have an Osprey and have owned Kestrel and Peregrine and my buddy paddles a Kee 15. Kee 15 is more efficient that Osprey for sure. Kestrel is more efficient than Kee 15 for sure. I'd drag race any of the others in a Kestrel and my Kestrel could handle me plus a black lab quite happily...250 plus pounds.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Nomad has beaten the birds. Soundly. GPS verified set course same paddler. Does it matter No. That Flash is the quickest accelerator is due to. Yep skin friction

 

[gumpus]

That's interesting...maybe my memory of the Nomad is wrong. Did Colden change the hull design from Dave's original Nomad? I've always been fascinated by the "overdrive" characteristics of various hulls. In my experience one could "punch through" the hull speeds of boats like Blackhawk Zephyr and Shadow 13 while even in my Flashfire I could drive it until there was a ton of noise coming off the bow and the boat would sometimes spin out even when switching sides on each stroke. SRT would hit a hard wall. Merlin II hits a soft wall. Kestrel could be pushed very hard. Maybe I need to paddle a Nomad again.

I'd be very curious to see any data you have around the effect of scratches...coincidentally I just sent an email to Swift today in the hope of connecting to John Winters since the one graph he published makes the effect seem HUGE but that just does not pass the test of reasonableness for me. Is it a 10 percent effect? Only at low speeds? Bigger effect than the turbulence created by paddle strokes? I'd love to see some real data. For sure one can always feel the effect of low wetted surface area on acceleration at lower speeds.

 

[deerfly]

here ya go gump, this should keep you busy for a while http://ittc.info/media/3107/subjects-2-4-skin-friction-and-turbulence.pdf

My 2 cents is given the chaotic way the "roughness" we're talking about evolves below the water line that wave and wind resistance vs viscous drag under real world conditions while paddling a canoe is impossible to measure and reduce to meaningful conclusions. Put another way, if you're really tired after a long day of paddling the random scratches on the bottom of your canoe had nothing to do with why you're tired...

 

[jm0278]

I wanted to be sure to thank everyone for their input...I've learned a lot and feel much more confident in my ability to make a wise decision and purchase a boat I'll still be happy with two years from now. I'm really looking forward to my upcoming test paddles and hope to finish the shopping process in August with the intent of actually getting out for at least a couple trips this fall.

I'm now going to begin researching what accessories I'll need to have to get started beyond the obvious paddle and PFD. I believe some of the places I'll be canoe shopping may offer a discount on accessories when buying a boat and I want to be prepared to take advantage if that's the case.

Thanks again!

Jim

 

[frozentripper]

Gump,

I'd be very curious to see any data you have around the effect of scratches...coincidentally I just sent an email to Swift today in the hope of connecting to John Winters since the one graph he published makes the effect seem HUGE but that just does not pass the test of reasonableness for me. Is it a 10 percent effect?

In this page on frictional resistance by JW, it seems a rough surfaced canoe can have 50% more resistance than new & smooth... see the last paragraph:

http://www.greenval.com/shape_part1.html

This is separate from residual resistance covered on the next page, both resistances combine for a total when resistance to paddling speed is considered. But when it's only the effects on one canoe, the residual resistance remains unchanged, while frictional resistance increases with time.

Appearances aren't everything, but they're something, maybe 50%... don't scratch, applies to both mosquitoes and rocks.

 

[Jim Dodd]

The old saying, that there is no perfect canoe comes well into play here !
Every paddler will have different needs.

Getting out on the water, with as many different canoes as you can find, will help narrow the playing field.
One thing I can't do in a dedicated solo, is Stand up ! All of mine are too narrow, at least for me !

BWCA66's choice of a small tandem, may make that possible, for some anyway . A tandem is probably easier getting over Beaver dams also.
Again, just a fellow paddlers views !

Jim

 

[lowangle al]

Jim Dodd and BWCA66,

Thanks for your suggestions, but weight is a factor. I'd love to have the waterline of a 16-footer, but in my backpacking (soon to be portaging?) days, ounces count. As for a small tandem and its inherent flexibility, it is highly unlikely my wife will ever accompany me on one of these trips and if she ever wants to, I'll rent the most comfortable, stable tandem I can find and load it up with all the creature comforts I can.

Jim

Hi Jim, weight is a factor but ounces only matter if you are planning to carry your boat and pack at the same time. If your boat is about 35 lbs. and your gear about the same it is a heavy but doable load. If you are ok with that much weight go ahead and count your ounces. If that is too much of a load and you plan to double carry you can carry substantially more weight on a portage than you would want to when backpacking because you are only carrying a small percent of the time. If you decide to double carry you can afford to go with a little bigger boat and take more luxuries. These things add weight but can make your trip easier and more enjoyable. Examples of these luxuries are things like a folding chair, fishing gear, an ax and saw(sometimes a necessity) camera equipment,bigger tent, tarp, thicker sleeping pad and better food. It all depends on the style and level of comfort you prefer.

My opinion is that canoe tripping should be more comfortable and include more amenities than backpacking.

 

[Guest]

For me-"speed" doesn't mean the theoretical top speed with a high horsepower paddler (which I'm not)-- but the ability to maintain a good cruising speed for a long time with the least effort. For this, my Flashfire and Nomad aren't that far apart. I have nothing against swift or Hemlock canoes-both are great. I do like the hulls that Colden makes,besides,Paul is a friend and almost neighbor.

 

[jm0278]

My opinion is that canoe tripping should be more comfortable and include more amenities than backpacking.

Agreed. When I first started backpacking a few years ago, my kit weighed in at about 45 pounds. I could carry that weight for quite a few miles, but it did take a toll on my enjoyment. My current typical pack weight heading out the door is in the low-thirties, but that usually includes over four pounds of water. That weight does, however, include my Sven saw and an amazingly comfortable one pound folding chair.

Because the availability of water will not be an issue, my plan is to exchange most of the weight of water I've carried for 1) my larger tent, 2) forest axe or hatchet and, 3) more food. Doing the math, my pack weight will then probably be mid-thirties. Now, add in just under 30 pounds of canoe, four pounds of paddles, and a PFD and I'm up to about 70 pounds. I'm reasonably confident I can carry 70 pounds for typical portage distances, but my joints do have a lot of miles on them and there is a risk of developing an(other) overuse injury.

I have noted in many of the videos I've watched that single carry does seem to be preferred and no video I've seen yet extols the virtue of a double carry (or even triple in the case of some WinterTrekker vids!). So...I'm going to try and make my first attempts as light as reasonably possible. I won't know if saving a few ounces here or there has made a significant difference, but I can ensure I've maximized my chances to single carry without injury as I'm getting started. It would really eat my brain if I started out heavier only to blow out a knee or hip joint and spend weeks recovering -- wondering the whole time if I could have prevented the injury by saving just a couple pounds.

Jim

 

[jm0278]

For me-"speed" doesn't mean the theoretical top speed with a high horsepower paddler (which I'm not)-- but the ability to maintain a good cruising speed for a long time with the least effort.

I equate effort with energy and energy impacts enjoyment. The more energy I expend on the trail, the less energy I have to enjoy my time in camp.

But there is a balance I try to find. If I'm exhausted from travel when I get to camp, I might not be up for a spectacular sunset. On the other hand, if I have too much energy when I get to camp, I can sometimes find it difficult to relax.

 

[Cruiser]

The packing list (final pack weight) has quite a bit to do with "how" you intend to camp. If you use a moving camp, that is on a trip where you break camp every day and move on, then the thinking is similar to backpacking (go lean and mean) and you need to avoid all the extra time at a portage that a double carry entails, plus breaking camp ... what comes out of the pack(s) still needs to go right back in the next day. However, if you are going to get to a particular place and then day trip from there, you can afford to change how you view that pack (more amenities), then a double carry isn't really the end of the world, you can afford to bring more comfort.

Depending where you are, IMO portaging the canoe is the most dangerous part, due to visibility and how awkward it is with the load so high up .... walking the portage first with the pack may be the best approach on a new portage, making the double carry a little safer ... going over a new portage fully loaded is doable, but it can push the safety margins for those of us starting creak a bit.

Brian

 

[Dagger]

My opinion is that canoe tripping should be more comfortable and include more amenities than backpacking.

Couldn't agree more. Some weight savings is certainly great, but for my part, I am done with super light weight, skimpy, half size anything, just to save a few pounds and sacrifice a good night's sleep or...

 

[lowangle al]

I tried the single carry on one trip. The total weight wasn't too bad, but I wasn't able to get the load to ride comfortably. The pack was too high preventing me from properly balancing the canoe. I always tell people just getting into this that they have to be able to accept a little pain and discomfort. The question is how much do you want to tolerate. Double portaging takes longer but if time isn't an issue it is less strain and pain.

The problem I had could be fixed and there is still a place for single carrying for me. There is a three day trip I take that I could do as an over nighter if I single carry. I just have to fiddle with it until I get it comfortable. I also have to sacrifice some of my luxuries to do it. So you are not tied to one or the other and can change it for different trips or on some trips you may have to start out with a double carry and switch to a single as your food gets lighter. Or you may find that a double carry may be necessary on a long uphill and then single carry on a downhill or flats.

I'm sure you will find what works for you soon enough, just stay open minded and flexible.

 

[jm0278]

Basic aircraft design: light, strong, cheap -- pick any two. Also works for camping gear. May also apply to canoes.

 

[lowangle al]

Basic aircraft design: light, strong, cheap -- pick any two. Also works for camping gear. May also apply to canoes.

Yep, unfortunately you can forget about cheap. In the long run I think I have saved a lot of money tripping. For years my only expense on weekends during ice out was a tank of gas and a bag of groceries. No expensive dinners, movies, shows or the other thing we do to entertain ourselves.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I quite dislike single carrying
I don't do trip videos as my trips aren't meant to be of interest to others. I do enjoy taking pictures and putting down and picking up that load for each pic opportunity doesn't interest me! I really value the walk backs