Self-learning to pole upstream - bow control and other tips?

[Tsuga8]

OK, so I've got a couple poles (homemade spruce and a Hayden aluminum) and a couple canoes (Millbrook Souhegan, Wenonah Heron) I'm working with. I read Harry Rock's and Garret Conover's books, watched the videos on YouTube, etc. I feel very comfortable poling flatwater swamps and can build some speed, but still with a fair of ruddering to stay on track. Now I have started trying to work upstream. I've managed to climb some drops that I never thought possible before I started poling - in some ways it's shockingly easy. BUT....

I feel like the two areas I am struggling with are bow control and keeping straight against a current, which are obviously related. I'm basically managing to climb swift sections by alternating sides and zigzagging up the channel, ferrying back and forth, using the current to counter-act the turn I am un-deliberately imparting with each push. This is OK in some sections but obviously at some drops you really want to come in straight to the current and stay that way. I know planting the pole more to the center-line of the keel should help, but I struggle to do it in practice.

I also find leaning to be of limited use in many cases. Often I feel like I try to lean both ways in rapid succession, and the boat doesn't really respond to either lean. Maybe I need to refine my trim? The extreme rocker and round nose on the Souhegan may also be lessening the effect of the lean?

Maybe all this will improve with practice - I've only been out a half-dozen times. But, if anyone can supply some additional pointers they'd be appreciated!

 

[Chip]

You probably already figured out that trim is critical. The upstream end of the boat needs to ride higher, and you want the downstream end of the boat deeper. This is similar to tandem canoe. The current will push the deeper end of the boat downstream.

A fun exercise is to circumnavigate a rock in the current. Start in the eddy behind the rock, as you exit the eddy, step a bit toward the stern so the bow can glide over the current. Push up to the upstream side of the rock and start circling back. As you come around, step toward the bow. Now it is the stern that slides over the current. The eddy current behind the rock will grab your low-trimmed bow, so be ready.

With feet in the chines, I can lean the boat more than when I am sitting Or kneeling, with a strong lean I find I can really get my Appalachian to carve. i Think if you get in a benign current, point the bow upstream, and just hold yourself stationary, you can play around with leaning the boat and see what happens. The boat is probably going to start moving towards the side you leaned down. Try it and see what happens. Besides carving. leaning also shortens the waterline and makes it easier for the boat to turn, same as when we are paddling.

I’m also self taught. I read the Rock book and watched his video. It sounds like you are a more educated in poling than I am—you read two books! So, beware my advice. Hope we get some other polers to chime in. My biggest problem going up drops is getting the pole to grab in the middle of chute. Often it seems there is a slab under the chute and the pole just bounces around down there and doesn’t really get much purchase as I am getting pushed back down the drop. Kind of a helpless feeling.

Good luck, have fun with it and please share any poling revelations you discover.

 

[Tsuga8]

Great suggestions Chip, especially the exercises to try. Thanks!

 

[RickR]

Advise that's been helpful for me on up and downstream travel is to focus on where you want to go, not on what you want to avoid. Not exactly sure how that works, but it seems to.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

OK, so I've got a couple poles (homemade spruce and a Hayden aluminum) and a couple canoes (Millbrook Souhegan, Wenonah Heron) I'm working with. I read Harry Rock's and Garret Conover's books, watched the videos on YouTube, etc. I feel very comfortable poling flatwater swamps and can build some speed, but still with a fair of ruddering to stay on track. Now I have started trying to work upstream. I've managed to climb some drops that I never thought possible before I started poling - in some ways it's shockingly easy. BUT....

I feel like the two areas I am struggling with are bow control and keeping straight against a current, which are obviously related. I'm basically managing to climb swift sections by alternating sides and zigzagging up the channel, ferrying back and forth, using the current to counter-act the turn I am un-deliberately imparting with each push. This is OK in some sections but obviously at some drops you really want to come in straight to the current and stay that way. I know planting the pole more to the center-line of the keel should help, but I struggle to do it in practice.

I also find leaning to be of limited use in many cases. Often I feel like I try to lean both ways in rapid succession, and the boat doesn't really respond to either lean. Maybe I need to refine my trim? The extreme rocker and round nose on the Souhegan may also be lessening the effect of the lean?

Maybe all this will improve with practice - I've only been out a half-dozen times. But, if anyone can supply some additional pointers they'd be appreciated!

How's your poling coming along now?

I learned the same as you - from Harry's book and YouTube. And I got stuck on a learning curve plateau, like you. I would have loved to attend a poling clinic, but...... Idaho. So I eventually acquired Harry's video, and watching that video made me aware of some things I was doing wrong and others I could do better. That made a huge difference in what I could do with my improved technique.

I only wish I could have started earlier and also not weakened with age.

 

[Tsuga8]

Due to other obligations I didn't get as many hours as I would have liked to in this season, but I did get some hours in.

I think I'm slowly improving. I still struggle with planting close to the keel line, especially climbing against current. I'm pretty short, and trimming a 15ft boat means I'm only about 1/3 of the way back - the hull is still pretty wide there.

I'm mostly getting better at planning and executing ferry angles, slaloming with the current. If I can plan a slalom route up a swift section, I can make it happen. But if asked to go in a straight-line with current and without a lot of ruddering.....still not so good. I need to re-watch the Harry Rock videos and see if I pick up some additional pointers on the second viewing and with more experience under my belt.

I'm also looking at trying some other creeks. Mine has reaches that are very shallow (struggling not to ground out constantly) without large boulders, and reaches that are deep (almost too deep to pole) with boulders, but not much with intermediate depths and boulders to practice working around. It engenders practice of some elements but not others. Next season I want to get out and explore some other nearby creeks, and see if varying the conditions helps.

I did do a poling clinic at the Maine Canoe Symposium again this year, but it was on a lake, and a very windy one that day. Interesting to practice poling a windward lake shore with 6in waves coming in, but nothing like a moving creek. I'm hoping to make some additional poling gatherings or clinics this year, but while I am closer to Maine, it's still a ways to get into real poling country.

At any rate, I think as with most canoe-related skills, time in the saddle is probably the most important thing. Hopefully I'm not ingraining too many bad habits, and as I grow more competent with some aspects, I hope I can do them without thinking and concentrate on things like getting my pole better in line with the keel.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

One thing I've found that helps when climbing drops is to get back in the boat far enough to get the bow clear out of the water. The trick with that is to hop forward as soon as half the canoe is over the lip. Getting the bow back down increases hull speed and gets more of the hull out of the faster water in the drop. Sometimes when I feel that I have a really solid pole plant as I make the big push, I'll actually let my feet get ahead of my body and then give a shove off the pole to get vertical again. I follow that with a hop up to the yoke. By then - if I do it right - I'm over the hump into slower water, and level. The next pole plant and shove is easy.

 

[Tsuga8]

Sounds like quite a coordinated move! I'll have to play with that next time I'm out, assuming I can find a creek with enough water. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

That feet ahead of the body and shove move sometimes ends in a swim. Gotta have a real solid plant.

 

[lowangle al]

I'd say just keep practicing and refer back to the books every so often. I think it's mostly intuitive, but you need a good feel for how your boat is affected by current and wind to be able to react to it. Before I started poling I had about thirty years of paddling while standing in the boat with a 72" paddle and I think that helped with balance a lot. My style is a mix of traditional and Rock's modern style. My stance is forward facing, with my feet about shoulder width apart but with one foot a little forward of the other for fore aft stability. I prefer to stand between the rear thwart and the stern seat rather than a centralized position, just like my preferred paddling position. I use both power poling and the hand over hand method. I use a traditional wood pole with a shoe that I use in the traditional way, never using the windmill technique.

I did some practicing this year on the Susquehanna, Delaware and the Lehigh rivers in addition to some smaller creeks. I took my first trip earlier this week where the pole was needed. It was on the Oswegatchie River and I was very happy with the way it went. There were a few situations where I felt my practice paid off and was glad I didn't have to experience it for the first time in a loaded boat.

As far as bow control goes, I like an extreme bow light trim which is easy enough since I'm standing near the stern. You do need to be concerned about the wind though and weight it down accordingly. For snubbing downstream slower then the current you will want the upstream end (the stern) much lighter. For this I'll stand near the center thwart to get the trim I want.

 

[Tsuga8]

What boat are you poling, Al? I also starting paddling flatwater standing up, including upstream on the Oswegatchie. I imagine poling up the Oswegtchie is a heck of lot more efficient than paddling up it, especially in a headwind. What part of the Delware have you been poling on? I also haven't been on the Delaware since I started poling.

It's interesting comparing Conover and Rock's approaches. Conover in loaded 20ft boats, vs Rock with empty 14-fters. Conover even suggests practicing with a partner as ballast. I suspect his fore-aft stance is probably easier in a loaded boat, and a larger boat. I have to say, windmilling a double-ended metal pole does make tracking and climbing easier, but I also find the noise of the metal poles antithetical to enjoying the woods.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Harry always poles in a 16' canoe, as far as I know. But I think your point is valid.

I use both aluminum and wood poles. I use the aluminum mostly when I'm practicing in the valley and trying to go as far and fast as possible. When I'm in the woods, I prefer to take my time and use the wood. Yeah, it's quieter, and it just feels right.

 

[Tsuga8]

I use both aluminum and wood poles. I use the aluminum mostly when I'm practicing in the valley and trying to go as far and fast as possible. When I'm in the woods, I prefer to take my time and use the wood. Yeah, it's quieter, and it just feels right.

Same.

I think I remember seeing Rock in some smaller boats in a video or two, maybe 14.5 or 15, but yeah he seems to use 16ers a lot. Conover says don't go below 17ft, but again different styles and different objectives. I imagine a 17 might be unwieldy with no ballast, but more importantly for me, I don't own one and I'd rather carry a 40lb boat than a 70lb for practicing.

 

[lowangle al]

What boat are you poling, Al? I also starting paddling flatwater standing up, including upstream on the Oswegatchie. I imagine poling up the Oswegtchie is a heck of lot more efficient than paddling up it, especially in a headwind. What part of the Delware have you been poling on? I also haven't been on the Delaware since I started poling.

It's interesting comparing Conover and Rock's approaches. Conover in loaded 20ft boats, vs Rock with empty 14-fters. Conover even suggests practicing with a partner as ballast. I suspect his fore-aft stance is probably easier in a loaded boat, and a larger boat. I have to say, windmilling a double-ended metal pole does make tracking and climbing easier, but I also find the noise of the metal poles antithetical to enjoying the woods.

I've been using my 20' White and my 17' Bell Seliga this year. They are both good, the 20 footer tracks better and the Seliga is more maneuverable, as expected. I took the Seliga on the Oswegatchie and the pole was a big help in getting over the beaver dams. Other than that I was mostly paddling because of the deep pools. As far as wood vs. aluminum poles go I was happy to be using wood in the morning when there was still frost on the ground.

The section of the Delaware I've been doing is around the Bushkill access.

 

[Tsuga8]

Nice, I've done a couple day outings on the upper Delaware around Callicoon. It's a very long day of driving for me including shuttles....maybe poling up and floating down would make it more palatable, but I can't remember how suitable it really is for poling up there (and of course it's dependent on water levels).

When I did the Oswegatchie I had a double-blade (250cm) I use for gentle poling and remembered a lot of it being too deep. Good to know a full length pole doesn't really change that.

 

[lowangle al]

I'm about an hour and a half from Matamoris, where I 84 crosses the river and would be willing to meet for a day trip sometime, or even an overnighter. Not because I have much to teach you, but more to practice together. I've never even seen anyone use a pole in real life so I think it would be fun.

 

[Tsuga8]

I'd certainly be interested! A Maine guide in a poling clinic said one of the best ways to learn is watching a good poler. I certainly can't claim that mantle, but I bet watching someone else pole would help as you suggested.

I'm also about an hour and a half from there and would be glad to do a day trip this fall, or an overnighter next season.

 

[lowangle al]

Sounds good to me. The worst that can happen is we'll be two good bad examples.

Mid week is better for me, what works for you? It will have to be this week or next as I'm leaving town until about Thanksgiving.

 

[Tsuga8]

Alas, I work M-F by and large. And further alas, turns out I'm unavailable this weekend. Perhaps Sat, Nov 2 if the weather holds? Or are you already gone by then?