PFD avoidance issues

[madmike]

Most of my paddle time these days is teaching whitewater. When doing so I like the Astral Greenjacket. When solo tripping, I wear an old school MRC jacket with vertical sticks of foam. It is also most of my mattress. Not too hot with good movement. I use MTI cruisers for my rentals.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm getting two threads mixed up. Is that called cross threading? Anyway, there's some interesting thoughts here. I know my PFD keeps me afloat, I bought it untested, and for my weight and size, but it doesn't necessarily keep my face out of the water. I too swim with it on, though not always. Removing the small concern of solo swimming away from camp miles (or at least many minutes) from others by wearing it is a comfort. I can swim, but hey, so too could most drowning victims. I don't really live in fear (my kids would disagree), I just don't want to make a small, simple, stupid mistake. I also commit the PFD no-no when I use it as a floating chair on hot summer days. That's the real reason I might like to buy a basic model as a spare, so as not to compromise the good one I'd wear and rely on. Having a cheapish spare as a pillow, seat cushion, floating chair etc would be worth the extra weight in adding it to my gear list...maybe. Watching that cold water video posted by Dave04 was scary, but also very educational. I'm gonna share that with all my family members who play in and around water. Although we all tend to limit our playing time to summer months and water temps around 70F or more, this cold water boot camp info is good to know.

 

[ppine]

We mostly run rivers and water tends to be cold. We have a hard and fast rule about wearing PFDs at all times on the water and they need to be zipped and snugged up. Swims often take place with little warning. I would not want to be tossed into cold water and have to look for the ripcord or have to inflate a vest by mouth. Maybe in warmer water on lakes it would be okay.

When we were younger, we partied a lot more than today, but developed a system for that too. Anyone around moving water at night wear a PFD, swimming in rough water near camp wear a PFD. It is very useful to let people swim rapids and toss throw ropes, and swing them with ropes in the current.

I remember taking a swim in Class V rapid when I launched out of a commercial raft. I was wearing a PFD with 30 pounds of buoyancy and everything got really dark and cold at the bottom of a big hole. I was flushed out into calmer water and rocketed to the surface clearing the water by at least 3 feet. After puking some water I was fine. After that the value of PFDs has never been in question.

 

[Iskweo]

I am getting the idea that a good old fashioned PFD is likely my best bet. Not that I do anything even remotely sketchy but you never know. Thanks for all the feedback, it helped a lot.

Christy

 

[oldie moldy]

Well Christy, Looked up the instructions for the inflatable on the internet last night. What a whole lot of picky,, picky fussing along with warnings to don't do this or that. They do encourage you to do a blow up test to see that the thing will still hold air at the start of the water season.

So I did, and it doesn't.

For the life of me I can't remember what caused me to buy the thing over a regular vest in the first place. Maybe it's selective amnesia.
Probably, somewhere, there's some set of conditions to where an inflatable life vest would be better than the regular foam kind, but for use canoeing and camping, which is not all that gentle, I think a regular vest is best.

We still have the best part of winter ahead of us (or maybe the worst) so you have time to do research. Somewhere I read that they make vests to fit women.

Best Wishes, Rob

 

[Guest]

Here's a question: Would anyone consider taking a spare PFD? Sensible? Overkill?

I have carried a spare PFD, but only when it is required equipment. The NPS permit requirements for the Green River in Utah stipulate:

“One serviceable spare PFD for each boat. Every raft must carry an extra PFD. Low capacity vessels designed to carry two or fewer occupants, such as canoes or kayaks, must carry one spare PFD per every three vessels. If only one person is rowing a raft a spare PFD is still required”.

In other areas (BLM) this is stipulated differently “One spare PFD for every five people on the trip, or one per boat; whichever is fewer”

Since I prefer to paddle under a separate permit to allow more freedom of choice I am required to carry a spare PFD.

I looked inflatable PFD’s to meet that requirement, but the cost was prohibitive. Which was a good thing, as further reading of the requirement footnotes reveals:

“Inflatable PFDs are not allowed on rivers in Utah”

 

[Odyssey]

I was just looking at PFDs on-line. Some children's vests were pretty colours and graphics. That would be helpful to induce the kids to wear them happily. The cammo ones for adults confuse me though. Would you really want to be "camouflaged" bobbing in the water? Also the prices range from less than $20 to over ten times that amount for various styles. I wonder if you get what you pay for, or is there a threshold beyond which you'd just be paying for bells, whistles and brand name? By the time you get up to mid priced inflatables, say around $150, you might as well buy a regular PFD and not bother with having to operate it in a hasty situation. I'd like to hear from inflatable users who've had to float with one. I'm not knocking them, just curious about them. I have found that my regular vest provides a bit of thermal insulation in cool waters, which I assume could be beneficial in cool water self rescue. I'm still thinking about a cheap ($45 Wally) PFD just as a spare knock around vest, or maybe that would just be extra gear to pack, extra expense to incur.

 

[memaquay]

http://www.wildernesssupply.ca/mens-and-universal-pfd/extrasport/livery-pfd

We use these for our school club. They are relatively inexpensive, very durable, and highly adjustable. They will fit those 100 pound girls, all they way up to the 300 pound guys. Pretty good bang for the buck.

 

[Alan Gage]

There's lots of interesting reading out there regarding PFDs and life preservers (names that I only recently learned are not interchangeable) and the different styles. A life preserver will float you on your back if unconscious. PFDs are meant for conscious people who can maneuver themselves. I did a quick search the other day and one of the things I noticed was that on ships and large boats inflatables are the only way to go, and they can't inflate on their own, they require the user to blow them up or pull the cord. Reason being that if a ship goes turtle and you're in a cabin/room you might have to swim down to get out the door and then back to the surface, which is pretty much impossible if you're wearing something that wants to keep you from going under water.

Not really applicable to canoe tripping but it does show a good use for inflatables and it's something I'd never thought of before.

Alan

 

[Philtrum]

http://www.wildernesssupply.ca/mens-and-universal-pfd/extrasport/livery-pfd

We use these for our school club. They are relatively inexpensive, very durable, and highly adjustable. They will fit those 100 pound girls, all they way up to the 300 pound guys. Pretty good bang for the buck.

I have two Extrasport PFDs with adjusting straps on the sides. The ends of the straps brush the paddler's arms, making it a distraction and, over time, an irritation. I ended up reversing the direction of the straps so they terminate on the inside (the paddler's body side). It seems to be yet another one of those many products whose designer never used it in real-life conditions.

 

[Philtrum]

I once had a Stearns rain jacket with a built-in inflatable horse-collar type PFD. I wore it racing and daysailing many times, usually inflated about 1/4 of the way. I figured it would give me enough buoyancy in case of a capsize so I'd have time to inflate it the rest of the way, using the mouth tube sticking up from the chest pocket. The one time I needed it, I did indeed have a bit of extra lift, but I also found that the 30-40 seconds it took to blow it up were badly needed for dealing with a flat-on-the-water sailboat plus crew. That was critical time wasted and I never used it as a PFD again. Future capsizes proved the wisdom of using more traditional equipment.

 

[ppine]

Thanks to Philtrum.

 

[stripperguy]

Am I the only one that uses my PFD as a pillow? My NRS Vista is just the right height and density (I like a firm pillow)...I just have to remember to be sure it's dry before bed time! Oh, and much like Philtrum, I learned from many, many capsizes while sailing to keep my PFD on at all times.

 

[ppine]

You are not the only one. I like the NRS PFDs.

 

[red langford]

I wear mine all the time, solo, tandem, pleasure paddle, tripping, kids, no kids does not matter I wear it. Always have. Zipped up too, not just hanging on the shoulders. One trip I did I wore all the time for added warmth (dang that was a cold week in August). I consider myself a competent swimmer and I don't fear the water in the slightest. But I decided that to not wear it would be foolish and that is what I tell my kids, and how is it I am supposed to convince them it is no big deal to wear it when I don't. I have a Salus kayak style one that fits nice. It's a 2XL and the sales lady said the XL is listed as closer to the right fit but the 2XL felt better. I'm on my second one in 15 years. It's part of my gear and the pockets actually function and I use them. And like your seatbelt, after you have been wearing it for so long you begin to feel naked without it.

I think the inflatable would be too fidgety and technical for me.

So whatever you chose make sure it's comfortable and functional and after a year or two of wearing it you'll begin to love it.

 

[Guest]

My new PFD has some flotation up high and in front. NO I haven't actually tested it,but it has to be way better than the ones with all the flotation around your waist! A keyhole style is one of the best ones for this, but they are uncomfortable. I wanted one comfortable enough to wear. I'll know more how I like it next fall. I use a PFD for extra warmth, padding when carrying my boat, a pillow,and seat cushion.
Turtle

 

[Guest]

Wow,using a PFD for swimming-great Idea!
Turtle

 

[red langford]

I recall a story a few years ago about 4 younger folks doing a canoe trip in Algonquin sans a canoe. Wore PFD's, flippers and floated all their dry bags. If I recall correctly, they were successful.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Let's see if I can remember all the points that came to mind while reading so far....

Who wears a camo pfd? Duck hunters. If the pfd isn't camo, a camo jacket is probably covering it anyway. Not highly visible? Yeah, you take that chance.

I have an inflatable that I have worn while fishing or duck hunting on calm water. Like OM, I wonder sometimes if I should trust it. I should test it before putting it to use again. There are too many good comfortable pfd's available for me to feel the need to use it much though.

I know I live in the semi-north, but it does get pretty hot here in the summer and poling upstream can be a sweaty activity. I never understand the "hot" complaint about wearing pfd's. We are surrounded with water, and we can't stay cool? I get hot too. But if dipping my cotton boonie hat and putting it on my head while still full doesn't cool me down (it almost always does), I just jump in. Kayakers can roll. Sailors and power boaters - well, they (we) have no excuse.

We have a pretty big selection of pfd's because several of the boats we bought came with gear which we kept when boats were sold - and a few were bought new to get the fit we liked. Really, I don't find any of the better ones (not necessarily expensive ones) to be uncomfortable. When we are boating, everyone under my influence is wearing all the time. We carry extras in the sailboat to ensure a good fit for any passengers we might take on. Complaints are ignored.

Oh - straps. Adjustment straps are often made deliberately longer than needed by most. There is no reason to suffer from dangling straps or to reconfigure them. Just trim them to just over your minimum length and melt the fresh cut ends.

So, I just tested the inflatable. Probably the third or fourth time ever. It's holding air alright, but I'm reminded that getting it inflated by mouth is no easy task if anything else is needing immediate attention. Better pull the lanyard. Anybody ever test the c02 inflation? Do they ever fail?

 

[Mnoutdoorfunguy]

We always wear our PFD's. Hers is a Kokatat Orbit (you may still be able to find one) and mine is the Kokatat Orbit Tour. They allow great freedom of movement and adjustability. They are also low profile. With the pockets on the Tour filled, the front does stick out quite a bit. The main drawback for some is that they have to be put on over the head. Great quality, design, durability and comfort.