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New to tripping, looking for some basic advice

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Hello,
I just moved to Newfoundland and am excited about the whole world of canoeing that's opened up for me. It's a bit late for this year but I have all winter to research and prepare. So let's start with the basics. I'm planning on doing expended weekend trips with the wife and 2 young kids, With fishing along the way. I'm looking for thoughts on which materials I should be looking at and what brands are high quality for the money. Capacity and durability is key. Interested in anyone's thoughts...
 
How young are the kids and how big are the four of you?

Have you done any canoeing before?

Start watching craigslist and for sale forums on paddling websites. If you're new to canoeing I'd highly recommend starting out with something used since you're not going to know what you really want for a few years. The vast range of opinions of the best canoe shows that you can make pretty much anything work.

Alan
 
Like Alan said, and I would add that if you are new to canoeing, you should invest in a course or at least hang out with some one that knows the fundamental of canoeing and can teach you and your family! If you plan on running rivers, a swift water rescue is a must.

As for gear it is really all personnel. We trip with our kid and so a lot of our friends! Our daughter is almost 8 and she's been paddling for more than that!! Make it fun, make it short for the first few trips and keep in mind that with kids, it is not the destination that counts, but the journey!! I mean by that, that you might expect to cover a certain distance, but the kids might "decide" otherwise!!
 
get some basic instruction,borrow,rent or buy cheep eqp at first, and what ever you do-start with an easy small trip in good weather and work up.
Turtle
 
The 'camping' portion of it you can start now. Kids love a fire, cooking over one and eating outdoors.
 
Why not spend the winter watching films like Path of the Paddle or other Bill Mason films on NFB, pick up some books on canoeing at the library, and finding out if there's a local paddling club.Pick local brains for kid-friendly routes, and gear that'll work for you. you can pick our brains too, but remember what works for someone in Florida, might not work on the Rock.
 
You are Not in canoe country alas. But kayaking is justifiably popular. But on the southern Avalon in St Brides they have not seen canoes or kayaks. Aside from kettle lakes river canoeing is limited. Ask at the Outfitters downtown about lessons

The Exploits and Main are two I can think of. Both have significant rough water or logistical challenges. Don't know too much about the Gander
 
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Lots of good advice so far. I would buy books (used) from authors like Cliff Jacobson and any others that you can search up on the net who write about canoe (camping) tripping.
I would stay away from guys like Bill Mason, Sig Olson and Calvin Rutstrum, cause you will no doubt have to go out and buy one of those wood canvas Chestnuts that are hanging in just about every other garage in NB. Not to mention the canvas packs, canvas tents, quaility axes and saws....it's a sickness I tell ya.
HaHa

Post an add on CL or Kijiji in the boat section that you are looking for a canoe for a young family. Ya never know, some old timer might pass one down just to keep it going, an endless circle thing, good karma or something like that.

When I took my 7 year old twins the first few times it was a small Adirondack lake and we camped 1/3 mile from the truck, ready to bail out if needed. The fishing was for easy to catch sun fish and we always had a campfire and washing hands was an option (mom stayed home)
I smoked cigars and they shot their bb guns at my empty Genny lite beer cans, we had great times and they grew up to be outstanding young men.

There is a member here on the site Momma, she trips with a her daughter and has it down pat, maybe search up her posts and see her trip reports.
 
With young kids my approach was frequent stops to give them a chance to get out of the boat and explore. The kids will like it more if you don't make it a canoe trip but rather the canoe is the vehicle that lets you go explore. As she got older the trips became longer and she grew into paddling.

I made early camps to maximize exploring and hanging about for the kids. This approach made for shorter length trips, but if the kid(s) aren't having fun, neither will you.
 
All,
Thanks for all the replies, I will indeed chase down some of the mentioned books for winter reading. I hear the advice about making it fun for the kids, it's all about them. Keep the posts coming!
 
Everything said so far is right on the money. As for your question about gear...

I made the mistake of buying almost every new piece of gear that came on the market.... for about 10 years.... I now find myself, at least for family canoe camping, using my regular kitchen stuff. Non stick aluminum "kitchen" pots and fry pans are light enough and work well at camp. I try to use things that can nest together to save space, un screw the long handles and use pot grabbers (small vise grips work well). A cheap propane burner and 1lb bottle of propane will get you through the weekend if your cooking with pot coozies and mostly boiling water. Cheap blue poly tarps don't pack very small and are a bit heavy but shed rain very well when pitched properly.

Point being is that to just get started, especially when you have little ones, the "best", isn't always. Just get out there and see if everyone in the family will enjoy it first. If she enjoys the trip, it may be easier to get the Mrs to approve those bigger purchases for next year. If she dont, you won't have expensive cook sets for 4, a high end, expensive 4 person tent, and other group items laying around collecting dust while you are out solo!

Jason

Edit to add one more thing, if your out in an inexpensive 4 person dome tent that's okay, but, bring along an extra poly tarp to pitch over the top of it. It will add extra real estate to get in and out of the tent as well as ensure that the tent won't leak! (Past experience lol)
 
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As far as your pack goes, you should research a little bit if you want a PVC/ Rubberized dry pack or a traditional Canvas or Cordura canoe pack. You can try using backpacks with frames but they do not fit in the canoe as easily as canoe packs. There are dozens of choices out there from several manufacturers, from high quality to lower quality. Traditional Canvas Duluth packs are probably the most popular as well as durable and expensive.
An excellent name for Cordura packs is Cooke Custom Sewing. Eureka makes a huge drypack, sealline , sea to summit are among other names.
You can usually find some good used equipment on craigslist, EBAY and at garage sales.
You can also check out the classified listings, Gear Forum and Gear Guide on BWCA.com
 
Plastic bags inside whatever backpack or duffel you have work fine if your careful. Kids like having their own pack. wait till your trip and camping style gell before investing too much on gear. Some kids love having their own little tent, others no. Something you have to try.
Turtle
 
Hello,
I just moved to Newfoundland and am excited about the whole world of canoeing that's opened up for me. It's a bit late for this year but I have all winter to research and prepare. So let's start with the basics. I'm planning on doing expended weekend trips with the wife and 2 young kids, With fishing along the way. I'm looking for thoughts on which materials I should be looking at and what brands are high quality for the money. Capacity and durability is key. Interested in anyone's thoughts...

Yes! Another family of canoe trippers. Love to hear it! We started our daughter out on day trips and car camping as a baby and ramped up the outdoor fun from there. She's 8 now and good for about 9 miles of paddling and portaging max a day max, after that her patience falls apart. Everyone on here knows I can go on for hours about canoe camping with kids - it's kind of an obsession with me, but I guess in my experience my best advice is -

Start with small trips / distances with easier bail outs and work your way up. Get them comfy car camping if they're not already veterans, then try a one or two nighter before heading out for a week long canoe trip, and above and beyond all else make sure they are comfy. That means rain gear that works, sun screen, bug net for the head, snacks they like, and decent layers that dry easily. If they are too cold and wet, too sun burnt, too bitten up by bugs they will be miserable and ruin the trip. The snacks go without saying.
 
congrats!

dont' worry about newest, latest, greatest or lightweight -- old and big and solid works well for starters -- avoid department store brands for the big tickets, make two trips across the portage, get a tent that is one or two sizes too large -- get decent sleeping-bags -- but not too decent -- they have to be warm, i usually get one-rating lower (-5 in the summer for example) than i think i need, and live with a little extra bulk...large and uncomplicated packs are the best...get everything into packs if you're portaging, practice lighting fires in the rain...enjoy the view!

and like robin says, avoid anything with wood and/or canvas in it, it's a trap, you'll never give it up...
 
My first two things. Invest in a PLB of some sort. Invest in yourself - Wilderness First Aid Training or similar along w a really good FA kit.

Start out small and local. As others have said, keep it geared to the kids. Base camp somewhere or even car camping gives you access to activities, maybe in a campground extra gear nearby in the car, running water, etc. Some kids never take to the experience and somewhere along the line you have to recognize this and maybe change your focus a bit if you have to do things as a total family unit. For us the focus of every day to keep the peace (such as it was) was on lunch and swimming if temps allowed. That allowed an almost total reset of moods and interest levels...other times it was the chance for 1-2 of the 4+ to sneak away for a bit of an afternoon adventure.

In the end, be prepared, be safe, be realistic, start small and do dry runs, have fun and plan to come back again and again...
 
Newfoundland is not a canoeing world and your options may be limited for canoes available. The good thing is that half of the entire province of NL lives in your area.

You might right off the start think Pakcanoe. Labrador has some good places but driving may not be the way you get there

Don't forget that black flies in your part of the world are present all summer Repellent is definitely needed

I'd go down to Quidi Vidi Lake and see if there is anyone canoeing there. Find out how they got their gear
Personally I would stay away from wood canvas. Brass tacks and saltwater do not mix well.
 
So let's start with the basics. I'm planning on doing expended weekend trips with the wife and 2 young kids, With fishing along the way. I'm looking for thoughts on which materials I should be looking at and what brands are high quality for the money. Capacity and durability is key. Interested in anyone's thoughts...

Let’s start with the basics as far as canoe choices go, I’d look for used tandems in the 15 to 16 foot range. Royalex or composite, or even poly if you are young and strong of back. I would avoid the cheapest big-box type poly canoes with molded gunwales, seats and thwarts. There’s a reason those are common as crows on Craigslist.

More specifically symmetrical tandems that can be paddled bow backwards with a young kid in the better dimensioned (backwards) stern seat. That means flat bench seats (not buckets or molder plastic) and no fore thwart in the way of the bow backwards adult seat position.

We started our sons with a flat bottomed 16’ Old Town Camper and a 14’10” OT Pathfinder. When the kids got big enough we flipped those canoe around bow forwards, and got a few more years out of them before the boys moved on to solo boats.

Yes, 2 boats. Four people and gear in a canoe necessitates a hull with substantial length and, with squirmy kids, width. Let’s say at least 17 feet of canoe with you in the stern, the missus in the bow…..and two kids trapped deep in the wide middle, bored senseless, unable to see where they’re going, unable to learn paddle strokes, in squabbling proximity, arrgghh….

And, soon enough, when the first kid outgrows that discontented passenger compartment you’ve got a canoe that is oversized for one adult and one offspring.

We went to two canoes when my youngest was a toddler and it had many benefits. The missus and I were Commanders of our own ships, the boys were each Captains of their own appropriately-sized paddling station and we had two canoes that served us well over a decade of growth.

20 years later we own neither of those canoes, having sold them for close to what we paid, and they were the best investment we made in child rearing.

With young kids my approach was frequent stops to give them a chance to get out of the boat and explore. The kids will like it more if you don't make it a canoe trip but rather the canoe is the vehicle that lets you go explore. As she got older the trips became longer and she grew into paddling.

I made early camps to maximize exploring and hanging about for the kids. This approach made for shorter length trips, but if the kid(s) aren't having fun, neither will you.

Read that again. Willie is right on.

We started with canoe camping trips on smallish lakes, where we could paddle out a few miles to a site to camp. At first that was with the just-in-case rational that we could be back at our vehicle in short order. And there were a couple of trips where I paddled back to the vehicle for something we had forgotten. Or to get more supplies when we stayed longer.

As our trips involved lengthier paddling distances we would stop along the route to camp to explore, swim or play, to keep things interesting and make it more the being there than the getting there.

We made camp early enough to wander or play games or swim, and often stayed on one site for at least a few days. On warm summer trips my boys would be in the water for much of the day, and a site with a shallow sloping beach and watchful camp vista was ideal.

Excepting the watchful parental vista that part hasn’t changed. We still make camp early, wander the shoreline, play cards or word games together and swim ‘til pruney.
 
A word about meals on kid trips

While our meal planning has evolved as the kids matured, we started off eating much the same foods on those early trips as the boys were accustomed to at home. We were already throwing enough unfamiliar adventure at them without adding novel foods.

Simple, same-as-home stuff; oatmeal or cold cereal and juice for breakfast, sandwiches, fruit, nuts, etc for lunch/snacks and the ubiquitous hot dogs or Mac and cheese for dinner.

One cookware item we purchased back then and still use in the same competitive manner – pie irons.

http://www.gandermountain.com/modpe...343132333639&gclid=COfBqtm_zMgCFQoSHwod8nwECg

Again, plural, we have two. Both are in the coals repeatedly as we each strive to make our own perfect pizza.

There are entire books of pie iron dinners, but the simple bread, cheese, pepperoni and sauce pizza pocket remains a favorite. The competitive part is seeing who can turn out the prefect pie iron pizza. It is something the kids can cook in the coals with minimal supervision and, with no pots, pans or utensils needed, clean up is minimal.

If you have a morning fire pie irons can make a helluva tasty hot breakfast as well.
 
I'm trying to find some canoeists in NL I know of some kayakers. Craigslist isn't very useful. But there may be canoes in Labrador abandoned so to speak in Nain or Lab City. Sometimes folks don't want to freight them home

Mine think fried bologna. Ubiquitous over there
 
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