Making DIY Dynel (Faux) Tape?

[dogbrain]

But have you used dynel for this application? I could see repurposing one of these and epoxying it to the bottom of a boat.


1968 Pierre Cardin dress made from pink heat-moulded Dynel.

 

[Guest]

1968 Pierre Cardin dress made from pink heat-moulded Dynel.

Wow, a photo of me from back in my anorexic days as a trans-dressing Dynel model

 

[dogbrain]

I wonder how long it would take to wear through those dynel pyramids.

 

[Guest]

I probably have enough of the xynole for a dozen canoes, but I’ll likely order a yard of the real stuff in the future anyway just for ease of use.

My experience is that I only need a strip about 3/4” wide or less if possible to protect the stems of a wood boat.

Mark, if you haven’t ordered Dynel fabric yet maybe wait a bit.

I talked to Dave Hearn at Sweet Composites; the lightweight Dynel sleeve will flatten out to a strip approximately 1 ¾” wide and as a flattened sleeve should be about the same weight as the 5oz/yd Dynel cloth I have been using

I should have written his specifications down as he measured and calculated; it is always good to talk to the guy in charge, especially while he is looking up specs and measuring while on the phone. Small family businesses are awesome when it comes to customer service.

A Sweet’s order of lightweight Dynel sleeve is on the way, and I have a sharp vee stemmed decked canoe (soloized glass & nylon Phoenix Vagabond) on which to try it. If I like that result the MRC Monarch gets linear skid plates.

And, later, a guide friend’s client-abused sea kayaks that need a full Dynel bottom strip along the vee to withstand oyster bars, limestone and worm rock.

This could be exactly want I’ve been looking for. Thanks Recped.

 

[Alan Gage]

I am curious about what applications are used or intended with that open/mesh weave Dynel (or Xynole) material. I use the more fabric-like anti-fray Dynel solely as skid plate material, as an outer layer just at the stems where the abrasion resistance is appreciated.

If used as an external skid plate how is it for abrasion and impact resistance?

I've been using mine as skidplate material (outer fabric) with no complaints. I don't know how it compares to real dynel but it's much more abrasion resistant than S-glass. You can chew on it with a ROS for a long time. I've never managed to sand through it and feathering edges with the sander takes a long time. I used it as skid plates on my Bloodvein 2.0 build and they held up great on my 42 day trip.

The bottom of the new boat looked like this after the trip:

20161017_002 by Alan, on Flickr

And the stems looked like this:

20161017_001 by Alan, on Flickr

Held up much better than the S-glass plates I used on Bloodvein 1.0 when I noticed this about 2/3 through the trip:

20150905_001 by Alan, on Flickr

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

Alan that's a testimony if I ever read one !

It looks like you drug the Bloodvein 2 down an Iowa gravel road about 5 miles !

Jim

 

[Guest]

Held up much better than the S-glass plates I used on Bloodvein 1.0 when I noticed this about 2/3 through the trip:

20150905_001 by Alan, on Flickr

Alan, how many total layers of S-glass or other materials were on the stems of the Bloodvein 1.0? Just curious how far down it had to wear through to get into the wood

Our results have been similarly unsatisfactory. We repaired the stems and bottom vees of some sea kayaks that are heavily used in the Everglades; wormrock, limestone and oysters bars are incredibly sharp and abusive. Some with S-glass, some with E-glass tape (when we needed really long thin strips) and some with Dynel.

The Dynel was the only thing left after a single winter season, what remained of the glass, even the multi-layers, was in tatters. Glass skid plates don’t seem worth the effort when a single layer of Dynel (or Xynole) has far greater proven abrasion durability.

 

[dogbrain]

I've been using mine as skidplate material (outer fabric) with no complaints. I don't know how it compares to real dynel but it's much more abrasion resistant than S-glass. You can chew on it with a ROS for a long time. I've never managed to sand through it and feathering edges with the sander takes a long time. I used it as skid plates on my Bloodvein 2.0 build and they held up great on my 42 day trip.

The annoying thing about trying to get this stuff to fair in with the stems is that when you sand into it or use a scraper on it, then put a layer of epoxy over it, the fabric expands out again and is all rough. Varnish or paint doesn't seem to do the same thing. The dynel does wear through eventually. My real world experience is that 4 months of daily usage in abrasive shield rock conditions with frequent landings for portages will take the xynole out.

Mike, I'll wait to see what your experiments show with the sleeve material before I buy the dynel fabric by the yard. I'm not really interested in a material that I cant smooth out on the edges though, I don't like the protruding skid plates, everything needs to be smooth and fair. I'm afraid I'd have to sand through those edges anyway but I'll wait to see what you find out. Not having to cut strips or messing with frayed edges sounds appealing, and I'm sure the sleeve material already acts like bias cut cloth, so it should conform to the stems quite well.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Guest]

Mike, I'll wait to see what your experiments show with the sleeve material before I buy the dynel fabric by the yard. I'm not really interested in a material that I cant smooth out on the edges though, I don't like the protruding skid plates, everything needs to be smooth and fair. I'm afraid I'd have to sand through those edges anyway but I'll wait to see what you find out. Not having to cut strips or messing with frayed edges sounds appealing, and I'm sure the sleeve material already acts like bias cut cloth, so it should conform to the stems quite well.

Mark, I have high hopes that using the hard roller (repeatedly) atop peel ply will knock down the folded edges of that Dynel sleeve to near flush invisibility. The selvage edge in tapes stands very tall (and kinda sharp) once epoxied without peel ply compression; with the hard roller that selvage edge vanishes.

I am likewise thinking the sleeve will be bias woven, which should help it conform to a vee and stem curve.

The annoying thing about trying to get this stuff to fair in with the stems is that when you sand into it or use a scraper on it, then put a layer of epoxy over it, the fabric expands out again and is all rough. Varnish or paint doesn't seem to do the same thing. The dynel does wear through eventually. My real world experience is that 4 months of daily usage in abrasive shield rock conditions with frequent landings for portages will take the xynole out.

Not to keep singing the praises of Dynel fabric, and I have never worked with Xynole, but once the Dynel is epoxy saturated and peel ply compressed it never expands or swells again, even with 60 grit RO sanding and epoxy recoating.

I know from the skid plate materials test that 5oz Dynel saturates thoroughly and completely from top to bottom. The thicker/heavier materials in that test- 8oz E-glass, kevlar felt, kevlar tape, even thick carbon fiber – revealed resin starvation on the bottom. (Photos post #21. The underside of the kevlar felt, which was the most horribly resin starved, Post 16)

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...late-test-materials-impact-resistance-results

If you go with the Dynel fabric or Dynel sleeve as skid plate material I’ll be curious about the durability on shield rock compared to Xynole. If I am happy with the result on a decked canoe or two it will be going on those sea kayaks this spring, and that will be another acid test.

Doing a long vee skid plate or full vee bottom would be much easier with a linear material that doesn’t fray along the edges. And at $1 a yard laying down very long strips the sleeve would be as cost effective as buying a yard of Dynel fabric and cutting it into thin strips; one yard of 54” Dynel = $10. Ten yards of Dynel sleeve = $10

Jeeze Louise I hope it works. I am so psyched to try using the Dynel sleeve that I’m taking the four canoes currently EX-Poxy curing in the shop outside in a couple of days and in hopes of a short delivery time on the order of Dynel sleeve.

Psyched, and I’d rather do epoxy and paint work before the dead of winter when it gets more costly to keep the shop toasty warm at least overnight.

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan, how many total layers of S-glass or other materials were on the stems of the Bloodvein 1.0? Just curious how far down it had to wear through to get into the wood

Should have been at least 3 layers there. One layer of e-glass that was the main hull layer and then a couple layers of s-glass.

Alan

 

[Guest]

Mike, have you ever looked at the Dynel "sleeve" that Sweet Composites has? When I bought my bulk lot of Dynel I also ordered a yard of the sleeve material. It's basically a tube sock of Dynel. I can't find the piece I bought and I don't remember the exact width but I'd guess it would yield a double layer about 2 inches wide when flattened.

The Sweets Dynel sleeve I ordered arrived yesterday; I should have gone up to get the mail sooner.

I ordered the lightweight sleeve. It measures 1 ½” wide flat*, is a much finer/tighter weave than the Dynel fabric and doesn’t seem quite as thick/heavy as the 5oz plain weave Dynel, more satin-like and not as stiff. When cut to length the ends are less frayed cleaner than with glass or Twaron tape.

I kinda wish I had ordered some of the heavier weight “standard” Dynel sleeve for comparison.

*It is straight woven along the length, not bias, but even without peel ply compression the folded edges lay completely flat right off the roll. I am 99.9% certain that with peel ply and roller it will lay flush with the hull, and almost as certain that it will drape a curve and vee.

It’s going on a decked canoe soon. And then probably another.

 

[recped]

Good to hear, still haven't found the piece I order in the Spring, I think it was the "standard" but not sure. In any case it was also not quite as "stiff" as the regular fabric and was a bit "stretchy".

I didn't have any drape problem when I did the one skid plate in the Spring but it was on my Mohawk XL14 which has very blunt ends. At 1 ½” wide I think it will make a fine bottom layer for my backup XL14 (almost new) that I plan to "skid up" in the Spring. That boat has nothing at the moment unlike the older XL14 that already had a base layer of multiple pieces of s-glass.

 

[Guest]

Good to hear, still haven't found the piece I order in the Spring, I think it was the "standard" but not sure. In any case it was also not quite as "stiff" as the regular fabric and was a bit "stretchy".

I didn't have any drape problem when I did the one skid plate in the Spring but it was on my Mohawk XL14 which has very blunt ends. At 1 ½” wide I think it will make a fine bottom layer for my backup XL14 (almost new) that I plan to "skid up" in the Spring. That boat has nothing at the moment unlike the older XL14 that already had a base layer of multiple pieces of s-glass.

Fat, bulbous ends are easier to drape without puckers or folds than sharp vee stems when incorporating curves. I’d still cut a wider skid plate from Dynel fabric for most canoes, especially RX boats, but having a 1 ½” wider layer of something underneath along the keel line would be impact beneficial.

I do like having a “base layer” of something previously existing for increased impact resistance; multiple layers of glass or even old, worn smooth kevlar felt covered with Dynel fabric.

I just laid up and peel ply’ed that Dynel sleeve on a sharp vee stemmed Phoenix Vagabond.

I won’t know for certain until tomorrow when the release treated peel ply comes off, but dang that was easy. Two 30” long x 1 ½” wide skid plates on sharp vee stems; I had to snip the sleeve only twice for two lenghts, and the edges are perfectly even and un-cut/un-frayed. Even the cut ends of that finer weave Dynel sleeve hold together well without unraveling strays.

I want to see, and maybe try, the “standard” (heavier) weight Dynel sleeve. And now wonder if Dynel sleeve comes wider than 1 ½ inches.

3” or 4” wide Dynel sleeve would be awesome, and easy to under-layer with something narrower epoxied on at the same time underneath, even if that was inexpensive 2” E-glass tape.

I’m not done with the skid plate experiments just yet, and I have the precious remains of a roll of 1” aerospace industry S-glass begging to be used as an underlayer before the sizing ages out, but I’m running out of boats.

 

[Guest]

I pulled the roller compressed peel ply off the Dynel sleeve this morning. It worked very well.

To be continued on the Skid Plate Repairs and Retrofit thread.

 

[dogbrain]

I pulled the roller compressed peel ply off the Dynel sleeve this morning. It worked very well.

To be continued on the Skid Plate Repairs and Retrofit thread.

Let's see a picture.

 

[Guest]

Let's see a picture.

Jeeze, I'm an old retired guy and was never fast in the shop.

Soon. Very soon